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nightrose 7/07/08 1:37:14 PM
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Apprentice Member
Joined: 4/25/04 |
Originally posted by Cereo
While this is all obviously an opinion about what risk means, from your perspective there is no risk in putting all your money in the stock market than either. Because really money is just gained through an investment in time so really there is NO risks at all besides dying in real life or getting hurt beyond repair. But I have a feeling you don't have all your funds invested in the stock market or in gambling because you in fact do believe in risk.
What can you buy with gold from (insert your current MMORPG here) in real life? Zilch. Cash, however, is used to buy food, shelter, medicine, etc. In the case of the stock market there is some real risk, as lack of cash will indirectly cause you harm. And yes, I do have money invested. |
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SioBabble 7/07/08 1:47:34 PM
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Elite Member
Joined: 6/10/07 |
Originally posted by slask777 Even a timesink involves risk, because you're putting your time into it when you could be putting your time into something else. Obviously, many players value the time they put into a game. The entire level treadmill concept is based on this. You put this much time into the game, you get a cookie in the form of the next level, with some additional abilities perhaps as a reward. Frankly, it's enough of an annoyance for me to die in SWG or WoW or any other MMORPG because I'll lose something I've put the time into. It's a pain to travel back to where you were from the cloner or the graveyard. Buffs will be gone, you'll have to spend time getting those back. You might have to repair some damage to your gear to give you the best chance of completing that quest. Some quests are timed, you'll have to start all over from the start on those. Likewise, you got that boss down to like 10% before you snuffed it, now you'll have to go through all that again. What the designers are looking to do is make it so you'll come back and keep playing the game even after you die. For most players, having too low a frustration threshold means they'll reach for that cancel button, which means developers don't get paycheck at end of month. The developers are playing the risk vs. reward game, too, you know, but for higher stakes than the players are. |
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| CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested. Once a denizen of Ahazi |
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Cereo 7/07/08 1:51:58 PM
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Elite Member
Joined: 3/31/07 |
Originally posted by nightrose
What can you buy with gold from (insert your current MMORPG here) in real life? Zilch. Cash, however, is used to buy food, shelter, medicine, etc. In the case of the stock market there is some real risk, as lack of cash will indirectly cause you harm. And yes, I do have money invested. Good you fell on page to what I am saying, though you didn't realize. Cash is important to you therefore there is a risk. A MMO character is very important to people (not me or you, but to some people it is)therefore it is a risk to lose things they have. While one is a game and one is real life, they both equate to a risk in perception. Or we can go the simple route: Time = Money = Risk :) But in any case, since the idea of risk is a perception and really an opinion, its hard to win an arguement 100% defending either side. |
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Polarization 7/07/08 2:01:24 PM
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Elite Member
Joined: 1/06/05
This is the way the Darkfall ends Not with a beta but a whimper. |
For the first time ever I’m going to commit two of the cardinal sins of forum posting simultaneously, I’m going to comment on something I did not read properly, and I did not read any of the other peoples reply’s to the article properly either. This article should be renamed Time vs. Reward, there’s no Risk in WoW, that’s one of the fundamental reasons why its so popular and accessible to such a large number of people. I’m sorry but I wont read an article about WoW that is titled Risk vs. Reward because I cant take it credibly. |
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vknid 7/07/08 2:07:43 PM
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Advanced Member
Joined: 5/26/04 |
"RIvRE is everywhere, not just instances, solo play and raiding, but crafting, questing and even the auction house!" Hold the phone! Since when did they implement Butt Crafting?!? lol.
p.s. I'm making a joke, and not grilling the author like so many others are doing. Lighten up people he already commented on why he titled it that. |
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Sophist 7/07/08 2:08:45 PM
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Advanced Member
Joined: 4/30/06
I am To BE! |
WORST THREAD EVER!! |
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| "The most important thing is to have the design support the players in setting their own goals in both cooperative and competitive interaction with one another." - Ironore - |
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Scrogdog1 7/07/08 2:35:30 PM
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Apprentice Member
Joined: 7/07/08 |
Count me in as one of the “death should mean something” crowd. Not that I feel that everyone should like what I like or be forced to play what I play. In fact, I don’t think many that are in my camp seek to disparage others for what they like as much as they simply state why it is not their cup of tea. Meanwhile bemoaning the state of the genre that has brought us to this place. And what is this place? It is the place where only one style and taste is being catered to.
Oh well. Too bad for me, I guess. It is clear that I am now out of the mainstream, though once I was very much a part of it.
I guess my stance could be best described in this way. Fear is fun. :) We love to be tense and scared, right? That’s why we go see horror movies.
For me, the single best mmog ever was EQ1. Though it is no longer, no game has ever eclipsed the game play of early EQ in my case. Yes, I am one of those. I don’t like quest givers marked with little exclamation points. And I prefer a meaningful death. Here’s why.
Sure, risk is all about time. Time to get back XP. Time to get back items. Boring things that you’ve already done. But truly, that is precisely WHY you feared death!
Plus, in EQ1 there were some rares that if lost might never be acquired again. That’s painful.
So, I was legitimately SCARED sometimes, thinking to myself, “omg if die here I may never be recovered”. You could de-level upon death as well. Meaning that, while naked and de-leveled, you had to re-encounter what just killed you.
Well heck, then you needed some help. There is no better way to form friendships than to receive that help from some kindly player, or to give it yourself to someone in need. People don’t forget. Whether it was all the way help on a full corpse recovery or just casting SOW on some needy individual. Most people would pull together for tough recoveries. Because next time they knew it could be them in need.
I’ll just never understand the mindset that considers no death penalty to be any sort of fun. I have played most of the mainstream mmogs since then, and at NO TIME (as in never) have I ever felt the tenseness and fear that could be found in the early gem that was EQ1.
I’ve looked and looked, but never found it. I doubt I ever will again.
Again, don’t read what I’ve said as “me right – you wrong”, it’s just that I don’t really understand what’s fun about a situation when fear and risk are gone. Back then, you’d be out of your gourd to enter certain areas alone and blind. Now, who cares? Let’s run in and die just to see what’s in there! So we die, so what?
Yuk.
Some people will never understand how it was just to walk next to that pit near the Necromancer city in EQ1 (crap it’s been so long I don’t even remember the name of it). You knew that if you should happen to fall in there…. Hehehe. The hairs on your arms would prickle just being next to the thing.
Tell me please… how do you get that in WoW or any current mmog for that matter? Ok, perhaps Eve from what I’ve read here, but jeez. The trend is clear. I’m in the minority.
Fear is no longer fun. Or… it never was for some.
I’ll probably never play what I consider to be a good mmog ever again for the simple reason that no one will aspire to make it.
Boo hoo. :) Oh well, it was a good run while it lasted. I’m off to play private shards in NWN. Mmogs just don’t cut it for me anymore. I hope the rest of you find what you like out there, though. I’m not trying to bring anyone down, just to hopefully better explain how some of us feel about no (or low) death penalty.
It’s not for everyone, but then, what is?
If the death penalty obsessed were really interested in a challenge, they'd willingly reroll every single time they die and desperately grind to catch up with those who do not. To demonstrate their inate superiority.
But they don't. I wonder why? Why is it that these people are so concerned about how others play the game?
Um, not everyone is for perma-death just like not everyone is in to absolutely NO death penalty. Having a meaningful death penalty does not necessarily equate to perma-death. EQ1 never had it – and that is the game held up as the golden classic by most of my ilk.
So… whatever are you talking about, Willis? If that's your idea of what we mean by "challenge" then I suppose that you will continue to wonder many things. :)
As I said earlier, it is clear that folks like you are the majority now, so have fun. I highly doubt the genre as currently assembled will miss those of us who have moved on from mmogs. It is yours now. More power to the way you like things, eh? :) |
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Ozmodan 7/07/08 2:52:11 PM
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Elite Member
Joined: 2/27/07 |
Can any of you people read? Evidently not, as the article was NOT about how hard a death penalty a game has but about time commitment. Nothing like completely sidetracking a discussion because you did not read the article. |
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Scrogdog1 7/07/08 2:57:45 PM
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Gone are the days when if you died, you be stripped of all powerups, sent back to the start of the level or any other hash punishment for dying.