WAR (Warhammer Online)

Originally posted by coffee

 

Well I tell you what we know so far about the new open PvP zone in wotlk (lake wintergrasp).

• Lake Wintergrasp is WoW's first non-battleground zone solely devoted to PvP action.
• According to a fixed, rolling schedule, one faction will defend the keep/mine, and the other faction will assault it. Both sides will fight over towers and siege workshops scattered around the zone.
• If the attacking force succeeds in capturing the keep/mine, that faction will defend it during the next rotation. If that attacking force fails to capture the final objective before the next rotation, that faction will be given more resources (unknown to what those might be for now)" to balance out the fight, and give every faction a chance to hold Lake Wintergrasp.
• Lake Wintergrasp will feature a variety of new daily quests. These quests include (but are not limited to): quests where you have to ride a mount with an NPC, holding attackers at bay; flying aircraft quests; flying mount quests where you have to lower ropes to evacuate NPCs; in these quests, mounts can hold multiple players!
• Wintergrasp Marks of Honor will drop in the zone. These marks are necessary for honor gear acquired through the Honor system.
• When a faction controls Lake Wintergrasp, bosses in Northrend will drop Spirit shards like objects for that faction only. These objects will be necessary for buying certain PvP gear.
• When you control a tower, you will keep it for a certain amount of time before it becomes available for capture (like the Spirit Towers)
• Before capturing the keep, the walls must be destroyed by weapons.

OMG!  That is so lame!  Why must Blizzard turn everything about PvP into a SPORTING MATCH?!  This is not Football or Basketball, this is a fantasy role playing game.  Do they have no concept of IMMERSION?  Their PvP designer should be shot.

Man.. now I KNOW I will be skipping this and getting WAR.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by Thillian

Everyone who puts someone to ignore list and then bothers to reply to his last respond saying "Welcome to my ignore list" should be whiped.

Anyway, dynamic world means things like factions change. Not just change of control of some PvP stations.

 

You are clueless. I'm sorry but you really don't know jack-shit about how the WAR RvR system works and what it entails. Sorry again but I'm not going to explain it to you since I don't like you enough to be bothered. Read up a bit  before you post on something else you'll come out either as an ignorant fool or an intentional troll.

/over and out

 

Did you put me to ignore list or not? Why not if you already sent me a welcome letter.

I ask you a few things about WAR.

1. Can you change faction in game?
2. Can you attack / declare war on someone from the same faction as you?
3. Can you declare a war on a another guild no matter from what faction?
4. Can you control with your guild or your friends certain PvP point? And rob travelers passing by?
5. Can you kill a player 20 levels above you?
6. Can you loot bodies of dead players?

If at least one of the questions get a positive answer Ill reconsider my opinion about WAR. These are the things that makes a PvP game for me. Everything else is PvE.

People yell for freedom in their life, but yet in games they want as little freedom as possible. So I guess it's the same in reality, they yell for it but not really want it.

I will answer your questions, but only because I don't want to see that stupid avatar anymore.

Can you change faction in game?

Obviously not, because every faction is a different race.

Can you attack / declare war on someone from the same faction as you?

There is a dueling option, but it makes no sense to actually declare war on your allies.....

Can you declare a war on a another guild no matter from what faction?

No, this is not AoC.... this is Warhammer. Your entire faction is your guild, and your realm.

Of course if you consider killing a player from the opposing realm who is most likely in a guild himself, sure I guess you can say that because they are your enemies, and your entire realm is at war with them.

Can you control with your guild or your friends certain PvP point? And rob travelers passing by?

Your guild can own a keep, and while that keep is controlled by your guild you continuously recieve guild XP from having control of that certain keep. You just toss your banners upon the walls after your realm has taken over the keep from the enemy. Now robbing travelers passing by..... if by that you mean player looting of thier gear, no.

Can you kill a player 20 levels above you?

No, EAMythic is against the griefing of players. You will be turned into a chicken upon attempting to go to a low level RvR zone and gank low level players. If you are on a PvP server however, things are different.

Can you loot bodies of dead players?

Yes, you can loot the bodies of dead players. However, you are not looting thier actual gear.

- Good luck

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by Thillian

 

Did you put me to ignore list or not? Why not if you already sent me a welcome letter.

I ask you a few things about WAR.

1. Can you change faction in game?
2. Can you attack / declare war on someone from the same faction as you?
3. Can you declare a war on a another guild no matter from what faction?
4. Can you control with your guild or your friends certain PvP point? And rob travelers passing by?
5. Can you kill a player 20 levels above you?
6. Can you loot bodies of dead players?

If at least one of the questions get a positive answer Ill reconsider my opinion about WAR. These are the things that makes a PvP game for me. Everything else is PvE.

People yell for freedom in their life, but yet in games they want as little freedom as possible. So I guess it's the same in reality, they yell for it but not really want it.

1. No.  Defeats the purpose of RvR

2. No. Defeats the purpose of RvR

3. No. Defeats the purpose of RvR

4. Yes. 4 1/2. No.

5. Not 1v1

6. Yup but not the way you want it.

As someone else said, your idea of a "dynamic" world is FFA HC GvG ruleset and if thats what you are looking for you may as well get out of the genra now. You may like that kind of PvP but there is a reason 99% of thoes games/servers died off a long time ago.

Originally posted by coffee

Many of you probably dont realise that PvP zones were on the table in WoW upto just a few months from release.  Alteric Valley was designed to be open world with PvE and PvP objectives.  However blizzard dropped this and made it a 40v40 battle ground.

So its not like blizzard are going "oh look what WAR is doing" they had these ideas before WAR was even on thought.

Heres a good 30min video at last years Blizzcon '07 where blizzard devs talk about their PvP mindset, as well as there mistakes (how many devs do that?) and their future plans for Wotlk.

I suggest you watch these before you dimiss Blizzard PvP.

Whatever said and done you can't think Blizzards 4BGs + Arena and endgame PvP is a good effort on the part of PvP after years of development.

WoW is a great game, has many good things going for it but sadly although I wish it was not true, PvP is really not one of them.  It's too hard to implement PvP in game balanced so much on PvE and centered around items vs world objectives.  World PvP is dead due to the fact that they pulled all the PvP into BG/Arena other than ganking PvErs/farmers/incidentals outside.

This Lake Wintergrasp sounds fun but its still revolving around just getting items and loot versus any form of endgame objectives.  No doubt it does seem like a step in the right direction for blizzard but should have been implemented about 2 years ago and not as a prophylactic effort to stem the exodus to another game.

I'm personally not going to play WOTLK because of the lack of Oceanic  based servers (versus WAR which will have them), but to be fair it does sound a lot better than the 4BG + arena as the current endgame PvP.

Of course once people get all these items off Wintergrasp it's gonna be empty again or another item grind in their new BG for other items.

Hey at least WAR is forcing blizzard to reevaluate the PvP.  If they were seriously gonna do it earlier, it would have meant a lot to the PvP population who weren't satisifed with their limited PvP.

Unfortunately, to many people WOW will always be a very carebear, PvE oriented game with incidental PvP as a afterthought or a response to other games rather than a viable structural framework which the game will be built upon like WAR.

Who knows if WAR will be successful, but you gotta call a spoon a spoon, and this new stuff sounds like a step in the right direction but it pales in comparison to the possibilities of a full PvP balanced objective based game (with Oceanic based servers :P).

WAR does have its limitations as every game has but I will support a game based on PvP that is fun, stable, has RvR balance and objectives and has constant good new content.  If it fulfils al these criteria I'm sure many will stay/flock to it. 

The main point is there is no really good RvR daoc like game out since daoc and the people who actually fought for objectives and attacked/defended keeps will know how much fun that was.  That was always missing in WOW for me.  People who started in WOW probably won't know how that feels and really will have nothing to compare WOW PvP to and know not what it's lacking.

Still if David can pull this off, he'll probably need more slingshots for Goliath. 

Originally posted by xenogias

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by Thillian

 

Did you put me to ignore list or not? Why not if you already sent me a welcome letter.

I ask you a few things about WAR.

1. Can you change faction in game?
2. Can you attack / declare war on someone from the same faction as you?
3. Can you declare a war on a another guild no matter from what faction?
4. Can you control with your guild or your friends certain PvP point? And rob travelers passing by?
5. Can you kill a player 20 levels above you?
6. Can you loot bodies of dead players?

If at least one of the questions get a positive answer Ill reconsider my opinion about WAR. These are the things that makes a PvP game for me. Everything else is PvE.

People yell for freedom in their life, but yet in games they want as little freedom as possible. So I guess it's the same in reality, they yell for it but not really want it.

 

1. No.  Defeats the purpose of RvR

2. No. Defeats the purpose of RvR

3. No. Defeats the purpose of RvR

4. Yes. 4 1/2. No.

5. Not 1v1

6. Yup but not the way you want it.

As someone else said, your idea of a "dynamic" world is FFA HC GvG ruleset and if thats what you are looking for you may as well get out of the genra now. You may like that kind of PvP but there is a reason 99% of thoes games/servers died off a long time ago.

Hell yeh, they died because of YOU. Players decided they rather want linear limited instanced meaningless pvp grind where level and gear makes the outcome of a fight. This is why WoW is popular, and why WAR gets so much hype even before release. And I'm raving against this mass pop culture in MMO, because I hate what I see.

The majority is so large  that currently there IS absolutely no sandbox MMORPG except UO which has 11 years old graphics. EVE online is not a true sandbox and Ryzom is dead for some time now. There are mainstream MMO's and that's all. No alternative. And it hurts me to see people claiming WAR to be next fantastic PvP game. I say no, it's never a PvP game if it doesn't containt the things I mentioned. Forums like this should be a supportive to alternative MMO's, but yet even here all I see are threads overhyping mainstreamed MMO's like WAR or AoC.  

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by Thillian

 

WAR is also designed for PvE. I fail to see how grinding other players without any interaction other then combat just to get some silly pvp points to buy better gear is PvP. PvP is full interaction not just combat. Politics, guild versus guild, body-looting,...

 

I'm sure you'll see plenty of politics and guild interaction. DAoC had a lot of those and WAR introduces quite a bit of additional stuff to foster that kind of thing.

Grinding PvP points for gear? Please get informed and then come back. WAR has renown but it is just a part of the overall character progression. You can grind renown only but you'll end up with a very gimped character.

In addition success in WAR requires group effort on so many levels that the me-me-me implication you got there is completely absurd. You'll be fighting for and with your realm all the time, whether you're aware of it or not. Selfishness will lead you nowhere fast, just like in any RL army-type environment.

As for teh hardcorez stuff like body-looting etc.. I like my PvP fast and furious and death penalties seriously slow down the pace of PvP. Yeah, we can have full body looting but who is going to PvP then? I'll tell you who - people who are certain they'll win - aka gankers. That's why body looting games die very fast - harsh death penalties = less risk taking = less fun. In the end the risk-takers end up with much worse gear than those who play it safe (aka gankers) and the game degenerates into a sadistic torture chamber and dies.  POtBS anyone? That's your basic Introductory Game Theory 101 and this whole subject has been done to death before so no point in continuing isn't it?

 

You are contradictory in your every statement.

Who cares that you farm points for your realm? Seriously, what the hell does it change. WAR will not have a dynamic world outside of the few pvp stations.

Gankers end up having better gear in full body looting games? Did you ever play a full body looting game? I seriously doubt that. Gankers were killed out first always. In addition in  a game where you can't see how powerful the other character is, there is much less gankers. The reason behind this is obvious.

Indeed renown, it leads to gear in WAR. And do not tell me what should I do, I'm not gonna spend hours and hours watching every silly video about this overhyped shit.

lol...  if you don't give a fuck about WAR why post in a WAR thread?  Correct me if I;m wrong, but didn't you also start the post about how WAR is going to suck (I could be wrong but I thought it was you)?  If you don't like it just let it go.  Post on threads for games you like.

and yes, WoW is copying WAR's ideas.

Originally posted by bleyzwun

lol...  if you don't give a fuck about WAR why post in a WAR thread?  Correct me if I;m wrong, but didn't you also start the post about how WAR is going to suck (I could be wrong but I thought it was you)?  If you don't like it just let it go.  Post on threads for games you like.

and yes, WoW is copying WAR's ideas.

Why are you asking questions I already responded in my previous post? Are you on auto-pilot asking the same question "Why are you here if you don't like the game?" everyone who goes against WAR on these forums without even bothering to read it?