Dark and Light was once number one on this site and because of it's hype here many people tried it including myself.  It ended up closing down pretty quickly after it released.  Generally I try to to listen to other peoples opinions to much regarding games unless I've tried the game myself.  This is because everyone likes different things and as stated sometimes things are being manipulated behind the scenes to make some money.

wow= grind grind grind

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Originally posted by MarL
I would guess check the average age of the posters here, Since I assume wows target audience is younger than the posters here.

Im sure hello kitty mmo is great, but you dont see it here do ya?

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I find it hillarious that you mention that, because yesterday I happened to group with a high school principal, a systems administrator, and a couple of theater goers over the age of 21 (yes, that's the place where the actors are ON STAGE instead of a screen, and the shows actually have better quality than the crap Hollywood churns out) to do Magisters Terrace, and we all laughed our butts off at the stupid generic comments that people like yourself make

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Originally posted by steelfrenzy
you know eventually it gets very tiring dealing with people who are close minded....yes WoW did bring well I can't "officially" judge of course, but I would say around 60% of the mmorpg players into the mix. sadly most of the people who were brought in through WoW were idiots...being children or adults it doesn't matter it only matters that they're idiots. If you think WoW is the only great MMO out there your incredibly close minded and have absolutely no taste. your the kind of people that don't set the trends, but decide to go along with them because everyone else does. really I could go on forever about how wrong most of the people are who have decided to grant themselves the title of fanboy for WoW( though they seem more like those annoying ass mormons who try to push their beliefs on other people and are completely ignorant of anything else other than what they decide is right), BUT I'm tired of it so eh just slap yourselves while I go do something worthy of my time.

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Funny, because I have been an MMO player since UO, played UO, DAoC, EQ, EQ2, SWG, CoH/CoV, GW, FFXI, DnD, LOTRO, and a couple more that escape me at the moment, and to be completely honest, every single one of those games is a huge disappointment when compared to WoW. Would you say I'm closed minded? Maybe a lot of the players here who have so called "taste" have to get over their elitist crappy attitude and get a life. Being "picky" or trying to present having "taste" in MMO's is retarded, I'm sorry, but you're not the equivalent of a "french wine taster" and if you are like that, get that piece of coal out of your a$$, you're not a "refined" player, you're just a simple geeky VIDEO GAME PLAYER, and when you try to pretend to be "refined" it only makes you sound like an elitist douchebag, so lets stop with the broad generalizations about WoW and WoW players mmmm 'kay?

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Originally posted by willo248
wow= grind grind grind

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No, you're thinking of FFXI, as most asian MMO's are nothing but grind. Also, I would say that, 100% of all MMO's out there right now have some form of a grind, so what was the point of your incredibly weak argument?

There is no link between the quality of a game and its subscription numbers, to think otherwise just means you don't understand the world you live in.

Mcdonalds is the most popular food outlet in the world, but I wouldn't rank it number one for quality, its really very simple.

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Originally posted by Vortigon
There is no link between the quality of a game and its subscription numbers, to think otherwise just means you don't understand the world you live in.
Mcdonalds is the most popular food outlet in the world, but I wouldn't rank it number one for quality, its really very simple.

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I find it funny that people are trying to equate WoW to Mc Donalds, and then compare Mc Donalds with a fine "wine and dine" restaurant when they're not even the same thing! You want to compare apples to apples? then compare Mc Donalds to another fast food place like Wendy's (yes, PLACE, not restaurant) or compare two actual dine-in restaurants. These analogies are so far off it's not even funny, and yet they've been used over and over for no other reason other than "well, since Mc Donalds also sells in the millions, and WoW has subscription in the millions, they must be the same, so lets do a really lame comparison between a fast food place and a fine sit-in french/italian/greek/etc. cuisine restaurant" Come on people! at least make the comparisons fair! Is that too much to ask? Nevermind, I forgot I'm dealing with a bunch of so called "elitist MMO snobs" of course you're not going to be fair.

Originally posted by Bane82

 

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Originally posted by MarL
I would guess check the average age of the posters here, Since I assume wows target audience is younger than the posters here.

 

 

Im sure hello kitty mmo is great, but you dont see it here do ya?

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I find it hillarious that you mention that, because yesterday I happened to group with a high school principal, a systems administrator, and a couple of theater goers over the age of 21 (yes, that's the place where the actors are ON STAGE instead of a screen, and the shows actually have better quality than the crap Hollywood churns out) to do Magisters Terrace, and we all laughed our butts off at the stupid generic comments that people like yourself make

How do you know these people are actually all of these things?  Also, what makes theater goers more mature than the rest of us?  I hope you have proof.  If not, then I think your comment shows you have no common sense.  People lie in games, get use to it.  Hell,  I am a rocket scientist and play wow as well.  I was just kidding Bane82, I really am not a rocket scientist. 
 

Originally posted by Bane82

 

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Originally posted by Vortigon
There is no link between the quality of a game and its subscription numbers, to think otherwise just means you don't understand the world you live in.
Mcdonalds is the most popular food outlet in the world, but I wouldn't rank it number one for quality, its really very simple.

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I find it funny that people are trying to equate WoW to Mc Donalds, and then compare Mc Donalds with a fine "wine and dine" restaurant when they're not even the same thing! You want to compare apples to apples? then compare Mc Donalds to another fast food place like Wendy's (yes, PLACE, not restaurant) or compare two actual dine-in restaurants. These analogies are so far off it's not even funny, and yet they've been used over and over for no other reason other than "well, since Mc Donalds also sells in the millions, and WoW has subscription in the millions, they must be the same, so lets do a really lame comparison between a fast food place and a fine sit-in french/italian/greek/etc. cuisine restaurant" Come on people! at least make the comparisons fair! Is that too much to ask? Nevermind, I forgot I'm dealing with a bunch of so called "elitist MMO snobs" of course you're not going to be fair.

Dude, please get off this forum.  You are a spammer and not reading what people write very well.  He is not comparing McDonalds to a wine and dine resturant.  He is saying that McDonalds sells the most food, but lacks quality food and is not the cleanest resturant there is.  You may write a paragraph flaming this guy, but each sentence you add makes me feel like you don't know what your talking about.  To tell you the truth, WoW was made for you.  I think it was made simple enough for you to play it.

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How do you know these people are actually all of these things?...
People lie in games, get use to it.

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Maybe it had something to do with the fact that I started by quoting a song from a theater show, and the two members of my group responded with the follow up lyric to that song, it was completely random, completely out of nowhere. Oh so you know, this show that I quoted the lyrics to, is OLD, so no chance of it being from a new show or even a movie re-make, so that right there shows that they miust've been at least over 20 years of age to be remembering a really old show that, as far as I know, is no longer on Broadway, at least not in the same venue as the big shows like Lion King or The producers.

Maybe also the reason why I believed them, is because there was NO reason to lie about what we do in real life in the first place? What do you think this is, some kind of conspiracy? That we were trying to out-impress each other?

Yes, I know that people lie in MMO's, but usually it's about their age and gender and usually if they're looking for some perverted cyber-fun. Not when they're out just having fun and chatting in a dungeon. Get your head out of the gutter, not everyone in a game is a liar.

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Originally posted by eveisme

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Originally posted by Bane82

 

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Originally posted by Vortigon
There is no link between the quality of a game and its subscription numbers, to think otherwise just means you don't understand the world you live in.
Mcdonalds is the most popular food outlet in the world, but I wouldn't rank it number one for quality, its really very simple.

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I find it funny that people are trying to equate WoW to Mc Donalds, and then compare Mc Donalds with a fine "wine and dine" restaurant when they're not even the same thing! You want to compare apples to apples? then compare Mc Donalds to another fast food place like Wendy's (yes, PLACE, not restaurant) or compare two actual dine-in restaurants. These analogies are so far off it's not even funny, and yet they've been used over and over for no other reason other than "well, since Mc Donalds also sells in the millions, and WoW has subscription in the millions, they must be the same, so lets do a really lame comparison between a fast food place and a fine sit-in french/italian/greek/etc. cuisine restaurant" Come on people! at least make the comparisons fair! Is that too much to ask? Nevermind, I forgot I'm dealing with a bunch of so called "elitist MMO snobs" of course you're not going to be fair.

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Dude, please get off this forum.  You are a spammer and not reading what people write very well.  He is not comparing McDonalds to a wine and dine resturant.  He is saying that McDonalds sells the most food, but lacks quality food and is not the cleanest resturant there is.  You may write a paragraph flaming this guy, but each sentence you add makes me feel like you don't know what your talking about.  To tell you the truth, WoW was made for you.  I think it was made simple enough for you to play it.

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Edited to add: Why is that when I make valid arguments all of a sudden I'm a spammer? Heck why don't you go ahead and call me a troll if it makes your EGO happy. What? only WoW haters are allowed to post here in MMORPG? If I don't pretend to be a "refined" snob player then somehow my arguments are less valid? My god you must be delusional! This is why I'm glad I was raised into viewing games and MMO's as what they really are...
GAMES! Otherwise I would've become just as much a "refined" douchebag as some of the people here, yourself included.

and as for me getting off this forum... MAKE ME!

Originally posted by Inzra

If WoW is the biggest MMO out there, shouldn't it get higher ranking?...

makes me question the entire list... kinda unfair for games that perhaps should have been higher ranked

Cause people around here hate WoW with a passion. Me, I got a hate/love thing with WoW, always had since day 1. Also the list is highly innacurate. It doesnt say anything about what people really like, it just say a little about what people that frequent this site like, even that you cannot trust completely. Just ignore it, most people with half a brain do

No need to over analyse this it is very simple.

In the case of MMO's there is no correlation between one that is popular and one "being the best". Popularity can be measured by number of subscribers, "being the best" is highly subjective.  As is the case with most forms of entertainment or media (hence the references to Britney Spears etc, although no-one seems to go that extra mile to explain they just spout "McDonalds" like some brainwashed zombie in a bad 70's B-movie.

Over 2 billion Christians out there, does that make Christianity the best?

The game list on this site is never more than a guide, if you only like Historical MMO's or ones based in space, over half the list won't apply to you. Not everyone who plays MMO's has heard of this site, although most have not everyone has registered on this site. They may be put off by the garish adverts or they may not be literate enough in English to use this site (although most of the registered members get by :P).

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Originally posted by happyclappy
No need to over analyse this it is very simple.
In the case of MMO's there is no correlation between one that is popular and one "being the best". Popularity can be measured by number of subscribers, "being the best" is highly subjective.  As is the case with most forms of entertainment or media (hence the references to Britney Spears etc, although no-one seems to go that extra mile to explain they just spout "McDonalds" like some brainwashed zombie in a bad 70's B-movie.
Over 2 billion Christians out there, does that make Christianity the best?
The game list on this site is never more than a guide, if you only like Historical MMO's or ones based in space, over half the list won't apply to you. Not everyone who plays MMO's has heard of this site, although most have not everyone has registered on this site. They may be put off by the garish adverts or they may not be literate enough in English to use this site (although most of the registered members get by :P).
 

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Thank you Happy, finally someone with some sense and can write coherent sentences without sounding like an elitist snob. If more members here could at least understand this particular sentence that you wrote "being the best is highly subjective" then I'd be more inclined to take more people here seriously, but honestly, with all this hate over a game without putting forth any logical reasoning other than "I hate WoW because it's not as popular as the game I want to play" I just don't know anymore. Really, it's almost like it's a separate club altogether, the "We hate WoW, because we're pretentious snobs who think they know what a 'refined' MMO is" club.

Even some of the "logical reasons" that some people put forth for WoW's hate are ridiculously outlandish. "WoW destroyed my game because now they turned it into a WoW clone!" Really? Did Blizzard go to SOE, put a gun on their heads and say "Make SWG more WoW like or I'll shoot!"

Come on people! Don't blame WoW for the fact that the developers of your so called "WoW clones" (although in reality, blame SOE since they were the ones that came out with a number of thes features first) don't have enough cojones to follow their own vision of THEIR game.

With over 2 billion Christians out there i think it's fairly sure you can assume that over 2 billion people think Christianity is the best, yes.

And that if we were to poll every single inhabitant of the world as to which religion is the best, that the most numerous religion would come out as the winner.

Popularity has a very large correlation with "the best".

"The best" is a subjective term. It is a function of personal opinion.

WoW is the best because most people think it is the best.

This poll is skewed because it does not reflect that. Why, I don't know. All but the most absolute of denialists can instantly see that it is.

We have had some examples of dev's promoting this websites poll to their fans. The Dev's at Eve Online used to have a direct link to this poll from their webpage, asking all their players to vote.

And certainly the latest release MMO is usually found right at the top.

Perhaps it is more a function of the questions the poll asks in order to create it's score.

While WoW for example is not my most favourite of MMO's, it is however the one I have subscribed to the longest.

It is not my most favourite theme, as I don't like fantasy, but it is the best made. It's not the best value compared to some of the free ones I've played. And yet I didnt play any of the free ones for more than a few days.

The poll's results are skewed, because of the emphasis placed on the questions and the choice of questions.

What makes a game "the best" differs for everyone. What makes a game the best for the creator of this poll clearly is not the same as what makes a game the best for the game buying public at large.

Really, of the total number of people playing mmorpg's today, a very, VERY small percentage of them visit this site, and even less actually post here. So, this site only represents what that small percentage  thinks of games and is by no means a measure of the overall opinion of anything.

Truthfully, a lot of the people here are bitter, jaded people who's favorite mmo is either dead, by way of dwindling population (like UO..*sniff*) or was broken by its creator (SWG). They don't have anything they wanna play, but then can't go back and play their old games to the same level of funzies. I expect they are not actually playing anything of the genre right now. So they sit here...and hate on everyone who actually might be enjoying a game that is currently out.

but I SWEAR I am not one of them, I just come here for the screenshots

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Originally posted by baff
With over 2 billion Christians out there i think it's fairly sure you can assume that over 2 billion people think Christianity is the best, yes.
And that if we were to poll every single inhabitant of the world as to which religion is the best, that the most numerous religion would come out as the winner.
Popularity has a very large correlation with "the best".
"The best" is a subjective term. It is a function of personal opinion.
 
WoW is the best because most people think it is the best.
 
This poll is skewed because it does not reflect that. Why, I don't know. All but the most absolute of denialists can instantly see that it is.
We have had some examples of dev's promoting this websites poll to their fans. The Dev's at Eve Online used to have a direct link to this poll from their webpage, asking all their players to vote.
And certainly the latest release MMO is usually found right at the top.
 
Perhaps it is more a function of the questions the poll asks in order to create it's score.
While WoW for example is not my most favourite of MMO's, it is however the one I have subscribed to the longest.
It is not my most favourite theme, as I don't like fantasy, but it is the best made. It's not the best value compared to some of the free ones I've played. And yet I didnt play any of the free ones for more than a few days.
 
The poll's results are skewed, because of the emphasis placed on the questions and the choice of questions.
What makes a game "the best" differs for everyone. What makes a game the best for the creator of this poll clearly is not the same as what makes a game the best for the game buying public at large.
 

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Baff, here's a quote I learned from my Psychology teacher when I was in college that you might find helpful.

"There are three kinds of deception, lies, damned lies, and POLLS" For exactly the same reasons you listed, but not just only the way the questions are asked, but also WHO they are asked to. Since you can't ask every single person in the world who has played an MMO to give their vote, you can only get a small sample of people, but that is all it is, a small sample, it isn't the whole picture, it's like trying to figure out what picture a 500 piece puzzle will look like by looking at just ONE piece. It's ridiculous.

Look at the 8.1 user rating.   That would make Auto Assault the second highest rated game currently.  The user rating system here is of very little credibility once the "fan wars" started. 

That aside, what I do gleen from the rating system isn't how great a game is anymore.  I read it like a advertisment of how many people from what games are looking for a different game.  Honestly this site is almost exclusively devoted to MMOs advertising in the hopes to attract new players.  The majority of people are here looking for something new to play and most likely rate the game they are playing highest. 

The ratings list of developed games is like reading which game has more people ready to move on and the hype rating list is where they are thinking of heading.

The answer is a simple one. This forum is populated with people who are searching the MMO wasteland for that one *Gem* of a game that will respark their love for the genre. WoW is seen by most of these people as all that is wrong with MMOs today. These are the same people who rate the games here so because most here see WoW as evil incarnate it has a low rating. So you ask yourself why don't the 10+ million people who love WoW come here to bump up the ratings? Simple, they are far to busy playing WoW to even know this site exists or even care for that matter. They have their game so why come here? There is your answer pure and simple.

Bren

Originally posted by Bane82

 

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Originally posted by Vortigon
There is no link between the quality of a game and its subscription numbers, to think otherwise just means you don't understand the world you live in.
Mcdonalds is the most popular food outlet in the world, but I wouldn't rank it number one for quality, its really very simple.

---

 

I find it funny that people are trying to equate WoW to Mc Donalds, and then compare Mc Donalds with a fine "wine and dine" restaurant when they're not even the same thing! You want to compare apples to apples? then compare Mc Donalds to another fast food place like Wendy's (yes, PLACE, not restaurant) or compare two actual dine-in restaurants. These analogies are so far off it's not even funny, and yet they've been used over and over for no other reason other than "well, since Mc Donalds also sells in the millions, and WoW has subscription in the millions, they must be the same, so lets do a really lame comparison between a fast food place and a fine sit-in french/italian/greek/etc. cuisine restaurant" Come on people! at least make the comparisons fair! Is that too much to ask? Nevermind, I forgot I'm dealing with a bunch of so called "elitist MMO snobs" of course you're not going to be fair.

It seems that even that small paragraph was too much for you to understand, so I will make it shorter and simpler (if that's possible)

Quantity does NOT = Quality  - that's as easy as I can make it without drawing pictures.