[quote]Originally posted by BigMango
1.5 years ago I was a VG fanboi listening to Sigil's lies; I was seeing a huge world with potential. Sadly, to me the game almost hasn't improved after 1.5 years.  (performance has always been good for me, even in beta and during the first month after release, before I quit the game).

Performance has improved for me in update 4 and 5, huge increases. I get lag very occasionally.

The game still lacks atmosphere due to its very poor/minimal engine and it looks like 50% of its designers are only amateurs. Some things are really good, but so many are poorly done. This is very sad as it could be one of the very best mmos out there. As it is now I don't even want to play it for free (got the free month but can't make myself login even though I tried 10 or 20 times during 3 days, the game's execution is one of the worst I have seen... I can't make myself login into this unpolished world).

I guess this really is personal opinion, sure their are areas in VG that need a touch up, every game has them.

VG has some very poor lightning. It doesn't even have proper shadows. Nothing apart from characters and trees has a shadow in this game - world objects, houses etc.. have no shadow. The game looks great at night, but during the day it looks fake/bland due to the lack of shadows. We are in 2008, this is a 2007 game, hellooo?

As the previous point.

Then, there is almost no lightning. I.ex lights, fires, etc... have no light hallos. Things like fireplaces light hallos in the distance at night make for some great atmosphere. VG has nothing like this.

You sure your playing VG? Sorry for the sarcasm but its everywhere.

Then, there are almost no world particle effects. Things like birds in the skies, butterflies (I am not talking about mobs, this is about "atmosphere") etc... are almost inexistant in this game. Again, this is about world life and atmosphere, where is it?

The quests are loaded with lore, the architecture of buildings, styles of clothing on races. Every race has a theme and that continents have several fallen empire themes going. Never mind the different flora in each continent, grass, trees, plants, rocks etc.

And where are the things like water reflections, etc... , the today mmorpg game engine basic features?

Then, there is no life in this world. I see dead cities in a soulless world. NPCs don't live there. The game lacks the basic scripting that gives life to mmo worlds.

Again VG has a LOT of npcs walking around, talking etc.

Also, characters look like plastic barbie dolls and the armor doesn't look fun. I don't want to go out there and work for hours to level and get or craft the stuff. I can't "connect" with my character. This is one of the most important mmorpg basic features - character improvement - that is lacking here.

Models are being re-done but even so they aren't that plastic on my computer, look great just slower loading, which is being addressed.

Finally, VG has some of the poorest animations I have seen. The character running looks so bad, it seems the characters don't fit in the world, they seem out of sync. The fighting animations are so slow... And for Chists sake, WHAT is this ridiculously gay jumping animation?

Never ever seen a good jumping animation in any game ever.
 

So, the bottom line for me is that after more than 1.5 years the VG game world polish is still only 25% there at most. I see dead cities in a soulless world with no atmosphere. Compared to this some other games like Lotro or Aoc feel so much more immersive and alive.

When I play an mmorpg I am of course looking for some gameplay, but the other 50% I am looking for is a world to immerse myself into. Atmosphere. VG doesn't have this, yet.
 
Its pretty obvious you don't like VG and that your computer either isn't as great as you make out or has not been set up properly for VG.

I believe people are having some sort of distorted reality with video games, MMOs especially. The whole point of a MMO is to spend a couple hours on it, do the things you want to do, and chat with people. My point is that video games, specifically MMOs are not supposed to fully immerse you, it's not supposed to be some sort of alternate planet you can escape to, and think and see nothing else. This is not a virtual reality machine, but rather a game. Expecting a second earth for whatever reason you don't want to be on this one isn't going to happen.

I can understand wanting good graphics, but let's face it... it's not going to be for a long time (until this planet is used and abused till there's no foliage), that it'll be nicer to look at a game then to go outside, or look at a national geographic. Don't expect it. The whole point of a MMO is to is the multiplayer part, not the graphics.

MMO - Mega Multiplayer Online.... I have played so many bad graphics, but good execution in skills and therory. I have played games with good graphics but bad execution... etc. When it all comes down to it, the MMO is supposed to be based around community. There is such a thing as a game unplayable for graphical reasons, but people are getting spoiled by games like Oblivion, or the XBox360. It's hard to understand how much time and effort go into making an MMO compared to a single player game, and everyone wants it their way. You also have to understand, not everyone can afford $3000 computers, and stuff needs to be turned down for other PCs.  People used to be happy with sub-par graphics (even WoW is considered sub par day one after release), but a wide variety of the younger audience has and never will on the majority, understand how much effort and money that takes. It takes time, money, cd/dvd space, etc., for different sets of textures, different sizes, finding what is the correct order to display the textures per setting as to which it'll become more substantial to lower settings performance. And let's face it.. for a flop like VG, your $50 at release isn't much money... barely if at all able to pay for the pre release content.

All I can say is that I've gotten out of this industry as a career because of the 'slave' type periods I had to work in order to bring you a decent quality game. I hope I'm getting my idea across, that you need to understand that it's a game... not supposed to be some sort of real life, and it won't be feeling like real life until there is a much wider fan base that want to use it as some sort of vacation.  I say this all as an ex slave/minor programmer of a larger MMO publisher.

well either way you look at it, I guess its good that the forums are active.

more people need to try vanguard, they need to release a trial or something, srsly

Originally posted by pimpdizzle

[...] more people need to try vanguard, they need to release a trial or something, srsly

Thats what I'm always saying.

In fact they should try the investment, give Vanguard a 200 peeps dev team, and do a huge relaunch of the game. If Vanguard gets the 200k or so subscribers it deserves and really needs, it will pay off.

I'm sure its Massively Multiplayer Online not Mega but hey :D

Anyways, I had to post, basically because I post on every thread about Vanguard, but to say this game has no atmosphere is very odd, when I walk into towns, the npcs walk around by themselves even mutter things to themselves, like in the bank of Tursh for example. Also there are flames out there on torches and things like this, obviously you were looking for a Lotro clone or something there, but when I played Lotro all the npcs were stationary and boring, no life to them, even the npcs on vanguard breath in and out etc (I didn't play Lotro long, i played the day before I got vanguard and didn't want to go back.

On regards to the shadows I'm fine with the shadows and lighting in the game as I'd only turn them off or down if there were any, as it just slows down the game and not really needed. The shadows that are in the game are good enough for me at least.

OP = ex Vanboy, new Vanhate (i'm not surprised, fanboys and hateboys are same people)

If you kill this game you won't find a better one before ... 4/5/6/10 years ?

- lotro: polished but small game: craft isn't interesting in this game, fights are boring, Forochel is a boring area (stopped because of forochel) Nothing interesting since Evendim imo.

- Aoc = kind of GW + eq2 without eq2's qualities: bugged, etc.

- DDO ? who plays DDO ?

- SWG : ...tried many times but couldn't.

- EQ2: heavily instanced. Heavily, invisible walls etc.Seems too old now. future of EQ2 is VG.

- Eve online; great game of course, if you like space opera

- War: .... another wow clone ?

- Wotlk: wow again and again

- Aion: Lineage like

- TCOS, DFO ? Yeah, maybe we'll have these games... one day...

- TR, POTBS : you can play them both 1 maybe 2 months, no more you can trust me. Tried almost all MMOS (+ beta testing ) since 4/5 years, can play only VG and DAOC and sometimes 1/2 weeks on lotro (I pay 1 month 1 play 1 week )

Actual choice (and for years)

- Vanguard (new)

- Everquest1 (old)

- Dark Age of camelot. (old)

- World of warcraft if you like it (i can't play wow)

- And 1 month for the Moria (lotro).

Or stop the mmos and play solo games (kotor, witcher etc)

Imo you played too many MMOS, and you'"re bored.

-----------------

"Finally, VG has some of the poorest animations I have seen. The character running looks so bad, it seems the characters don't fit in the world, they seem out of sync. The fighting animations are so slow... And for Chists sake, WHAT is this ridiculously gay jumping animation?"

This is ridiculous: if you can 't play a mmorpg because of jump animation, stop all the games... This is not a point of view, only a hater's troll. Lotro, DAOC, AOC, etc = bad jumping animations. Who cares ?

THE GAME DOESNT HAVE BUTTERFLIES GUYS LETS NOT PLAY THIS

LOL GTFO

<-- THIS GUY IS HAVIN A BLAST

Originally posted by pimpdizzle

THE GAME DOESNT HAVE BUTTERFLIES GUYS LETS NOT PLAY THIS

 

LOL GTFO

<-- THIS GUY IS HAVIN A BLAST

Does have huge griffon's though :P

LOL

Originally posted by Wicoa

I have found the death penalty quite tough too although in reality its not too bad, it just hurts having to run to get your grave to pick up what loot is left.

It is definately one of the harder on you mmos.

Im not a VG fanboi btw I am at the moment downloading EQ2 to try it, I am trying to find a game that I gel with VG so far aint done a bad job on me.  And if I get the station pass I can play Planetside again which I wouldnt pay specifically for.

I used to play WOW in a hardcore guild but that game has problems with its net in europe and also with some but substantial amount of 8800gts.

You do know you can summon your tombstone to the altar right....  So you can go to it and gather your stuff or you can summon it to the altar and get your stuff.  If you summon it you take a bit of an xp penalty hit.

Originally posted by BigMango

1.5 years ago I was a VG fanboi listening to Sigil's lies; I was seeing a huge world with potential. Sadly, to me the game almost hasn't improved after 1.5 years.  (performance has always been good for me, even in beta and during the first month after release, before I quit the game).

The game still lacks atmosphere due to its very poor/minimal engine and it looks like 50% of its designers are only amateurs. Some things are really good, but so many are poorly done. This is very sad as it could be one of the very best mmos out there. As it is now I don't even want to play it for free (got the free month but can't make myself login even though I tried 10 or 20 times during 3 days, the game's execution is one of the worst I have seen... I can't make myself login into this unpolished world).

VG has some very poor lightning. It doesn't even have proper shadows. Nothing apart from characters and trees has a shadow in this game - world objects, houses etc.. have no shadow. The game looks great at night, but during the day it looks fake/bland due to the lack of shadows. We are in 2008, this is a 2007 game, hellooo?

Then, there is almost no lightning. I.ex lights, fires, etc... have no light hallos. Things like fireplaces light hallos in the distance at night make for some great atmosphere. VG has nothing like this.

Then, there are almost no world particle effects. Things like birds in the skies, butterflies (I am not talking about mobs, this is about "atmosphere") etc... are almost inexistant in this game. Again, this is about world life and atmosphere, where is it?

And where are the things like water reflections, etc... , the today mmorpg game engine basic features?

Then, there is no life in this world. I see dead cities in a soulless world. NPCs don't live there. The game lacks the basic scripting that gives life to mmo worlds.

Also, characters look like plastic barbie dolls and the armor doesn't look fun. I don't want to go out there and work for hours to level and get or craft the stuff. I can't "connect" with my character. This is one of the most important mmorpg basic features - character improvement - that is lacking here.

Finally, VG has some of the poorest animations I have seen. The character running looks so bad, it seems the characters don't fit in the world, they seem out of sync. The fighting animations are so slow... And for Chists sake, WHAT is this ridiculously gay jumping animation?
 
So, the bottom line for me is that after more than 1.5 years the VG game world polish is still only 25% there at most. I see dead cities in a soulless world with no atmosphere. Compared to this some other games like Lotro or Aoc feel so much more immersive and alive.

When I play an mmorpg I am of course looking for some gameplay, but the other 50% I am looking for is a world to immerse myself into. Atmosphere. VG doesn't have this, yet.
 

One word... "Clueless".  Sure, Vanguard is not going to be a game for everyone, but your points couldn't be more wrong.  After 1.5 years, the game has improved an enormous amount and is in really, really good shape.

It seems just as VG really starts to hit it's stride and the population begins to soar, some people seem obligated to come back to this forum and post ridiculous crap like this.

I haven't played VG since about 1 month after it's realease. No real desire to come back. The 2 real things that killed it for me were bugginess and the content seemed quite frankly sophmoric.

examples: Quest - "Kill" flying books and loot thier pages...... Excuse me, when did I walk onto the set of a Monty Python episode?

                 Quest - My dog likes cocktrice livers, go kill some for me.... C'Mon Dev's hire my 6 year old son, he has a better imagination then that. At least put some attempt at rationale for your quest designs.

                Quest - I need to build a cabinet for my wife...go kill some Treants for me and loot the lumber from them...... C'mon NPC, you are standing 5ft away from an entire thicket of trees...and they don't actualy swing back when you take an axe to them. Designer..... could you REALLY not think of a better quest rationale then that?  How about the Treants are threatening lumber-jacks working the forest... or are disrupting trade because they don't want the road going through the forest cleared.... or attacking the caravans when they stop to camp and set campfires...... there, was that too hard?

It just seemed like the Dev's were tossing stuff in with little rhyme or reason or thought...just so they would have something to fill up space.

No thanks I'll stick with LOTRO where you actualy have decent, mature lore....and reading the quest descriptions doesn't make you feel like you WANT to bang your head into a brick wall repeatedly.

i tried going back on the buddy key i had with the game about 3 months back to see how much it had improved . it has nt . theres a saying in europe you cant polish a turd . not matter what they do to this game it ll still stink . it did teach me one lesson though .. never buy an mmo upon release . wait and see what people say or better still wait for a free trial . it serverd me well with age of conan recently  . like vanguard thats pretty buggy and unfinnished . so here three cheers for the likes of warcraft and lord of the rings love them or hate them both games are pretty polished

---

Originally posted by BigMango
1.5 years ago I was a VG fanboi listening to Sigil's lies; I was seeing a huge world with potential. Sadly, to me the game almost hasn't improved after 1.5 years.  (performance has always been good for me, even in beta and during the first month after release, before I quit the game).

The game still lacks atmosphere due to its very poor/minimal engine and it looks like 50% of its designers are only amateurs. Some things are really good, but so many are poorly done. This is very sad as it could be one of the very best mmos out there. As it is now I don't even want to play it for free (got the free month but can't make myself login even though I tried 10 or 20 times during 3 days, the game's execution is one of the worst I have seen... I can't make myself login into this unpolished world).

VG has some very poor lightning. It doesn't even have proper shadows. Nothing apart from characters and trees has a shadow in this game - world objects, houses etc.. have no shadow. The game looks great at night, but during the day it looks fake/bland due to the lack of shadows. We are in 2008, this is a 2007 game, hellooo?

Then, there is almost no lightning. I.ex lights, fires, etc... have no light hallos. Things like fireplaces light hallos in the distance at night make for some great atmosphere. VG has nothing like this.

Then, there are almost no world particle effects. Things like birds in the skies, butterflies (I am not talking about mobs, this is about "atmosphere") etc... are almost inexistant in this game. Again, this is about world life and atmosphere, where is it?

And where are the things like water reflections, etc... , the today mmorpg game engine basic features?

Then, there is no life in this world. I see dead cities in a soulless world. NPCs don't live there. The game lacks the basic scripting that gives life to mmo worlds.

Also, characters look like plastic barbie dolls and the armor doesn't look fun. I don't want to go out there and work for hours to level and get or craft the stuff. I can't "connect" with my character. This is one of the most important mmorpg basic features - character improvement - that is lacking here.

Finally, VG has some of the poorest animations I have seen. The character running looks so bad, it seems the characters don't fit in the world, they seem out of sync. The fighting animations are so slow... And for Chists sake, WHAT is this ridiculously gay jumping animation?
 
So, the bottom line for me is that after more than 1.5 years the VG game world polish is still only 25% there at most. I see dead cities in a soulless world with no atmosphere. Compared to this some other games like Lotro or Aoc feel so much more immersive and alive.

When I play an mmorpg I am of course looking for some gameplay, but the other 50% I am looking for is a world to immerse myself into. Atmosphere. VG doesn't have this, yet.
 

---

Funny i know of one game that had all that. Saga of Ryzom. Now closed because they couldn't get anyone to play. Maybe you should have played it then you'd have what you want and they'd have a population.

---

Originally posted by GrumpyMel
I haven't played VG since about 1 month after it's realease. No real desire to come back. The 2 real things that killed it for me were bugginess and the content seemed quite frankly sophmoric.
examples: Quest - "Kill" flying books and loot thier pages...... Excuse me, when did I walk onto the set of a Monty Python episode?
                 Quest - My dog likes cocktrice livers, go kill some for me.... C'Mon Dev's hire my 6 year old son, he has a better imagination then that. At least put some attempt at rationale for your quest designs.
                Quest - I need to build a cabinet for my wife...go kill some Treants for me and loot the lumber from them...... C'mon NPC, you are standing 5ft away from an entire thicket of trees...and they don't actualy swing back when you take an axe to them. Designer..... could you REALLY not think of a better quest rationale then that?  How about the Treants are threatening lumber-jacks working the forest... or are disrupting trade because they don't want the road going through the forest cleared.... or attacking the caravans when they stop to camp and set campfires...... there, was that too hard?
It just seemed like the Dev's were tossing stuff in with little rhyme or reason or thought...just so they would have something to fill up space.
No thanks I'll stick with LOTRO where you actualy have decent, mature lore....and reading the quest descriptions doesn't make you feel like you WANT to bang your head into a brick wall repeatedly.
 
 
 
 
 
 

---

Yeah LOTRO isn't bad. It's just small, linear and simplistic. It held my interest longer than WoW though.

I for one completely enjoy Vanguard but I also agree with the op 100% the world is not very immersive at all. It could use better shadows, more interactive NPCs. I mean... how many roaming NPCs do you see in towns? There are not many at all. Just NPCs standing around waiting for you to click on them. I feel EQ2s towns are very immersive as well as LotR.  I hope that they intergrate a more immersive world and NPCs as well.

The reason I can enjoy Vanguard now is I look to the other players for community and Immersion as opposed to the lifeless NPCs.

I'm so glad people are playing again and the game is more technically polished and graphically better then it was. Seradon is constantly on a medium-high pop.

I just hope that after trial isle the PvP server will be nice and populated so I can MERC me some suckas!!!

Darn, and I was really enjoying the game before I read this post.  But now that I realize the importance of shadows, lighting, and particle effects to an MMORPG, I can no longer play the game.

Sorry SOE, but you focused too much on things like content, dungeon design, quests, crafting, and diplomacy.  You should have taken a lesson from amazingly successful games like Crysis, which proved that graphics are the key to selling boxes.

DONT FORGET THE BUTTERFLIES! CANT SELL BOXES WITHOUT BUTTERFLIES

Originally posted by BigMango

1.5 years ago I was a VG fanboi listening to Sigil's lies; I was seeing a huge world with potential. Sadly, to me the game almost hasn't improved after 1.5 years.  (performance has always been good for me, even in beta and during the first month after release, before I quit the game).

The game still lacks atmosphere due to its very poor/minimal engine and it looks like 50% of its designers are only amateurs. Some things are really good, but so many are poorly done. This is very sad as it could be one of the very best mmos out there. As it is now I don't even want to play it for free (got the free month but can't make myself login even though I tried 10 or 20 times during 3 days, the game's execution is one of the worst I have seen... I can't make myself login into this unpolished world).

VG has some very poor lightning. It doesn't even have proper shadows. Nothing apart from characters and trees has a shadow in this game - world objects, houses etc.. have no shadow. The game looks great at night, but during the day it looks fake/bland due to the lack of shadows. We are in 2008, this is a 2007 game, hellooo?

Then, there is almost no lightning. I.ex lights, fires, etc... have no light hallos. Things like fireplaces light hallos in the distance at night make for some great atmosphere. VG has nothing like this.

Then, there are almost no world particle effects. Things like birds in the skies, butterflies (I am not talking about mobs, this is about "atmosphere") etc... are almost inexistant in this game. Again, this is about world life and atmosphere, where is it?

And where are the things like water reflections, etc... , the today mmorpg game engine basic features?

Then, there is no life in this world. I see dead cities in a soulless world. NPCs don't live there. The game lacks the basic scripting that gives life to mmo worlds.

Also, characters look like plastic barbie dolls and the armor doesn't look fun. I don't want to go out there and work for hours to level and get or craft the stuff. I can't "connect" with my character. This is one of the most important mmorpg basic features - character improvement - that is lacking here.

Finally, VG has some of the poorest animations I have seen. The character running looks so bad, it seems the characters don't fit in the world, they seem out of sync. The fighting animations are so slow... And for Chists sake, WHAT is this ridiculously gay jumping animation?
 
So, the bottom line for me is that after more than 1.5 years the VG game world polish is still only 25% there at most. I see dead cities in a soulless world with no atmosphere. Compared to this some other games like Lotro or Aoc feel so much more immersive and alive.

When I play an mmorpg I am of course looking for some gameplay, but the other 50% I am looking for is a world to immerse myself into. Atmosphere. VG doesn't have this, yet.
 

I think you must be playing a different Vanguard to the rest of us.

LoTRO?  Cute little game that requires you to be 3 years old , if you want it challenge. I tried it and then i laughed for couple of days about how easy can games be.Then AoC came along..

AoC? They removed boobies , so i guess that leaves it with no content at all.Unless maxing out your lvl in 2 days can be called interesting.

2 games that you just listed don't require any brain effort whatsoever or physical one , other then one finger on mouse.

This game is not polished fully( , but i was pleasantly surprised how much they fixed it and how much population there is.

My first weekend i made almost 100 gold from my tradeskilling (and it was only T1 and T2 stuff).Average T1 and T2 craft sells for 50 silver/avg .

So you do the math on how many sales i had in 2 days.

Oh ,wait you can't!  Otherwise you wouldn't be challenged by LOTRO and AoC