General Discussion

Originally posted by Tatum

Because, instances are (in most cases) just a pathetic attempt at reacreating the single player RPG experience.  Sorry, but single player RPGs are much, much, MUCH better at scripted encounters than any MMO will ever be.

The other issue is that, yes, instances divide the game world and the community.  It's not really very massive if you're constantly pushing players into little, secluded worlds.  What you end up with (at the extreme end) is an empty game world, where nearly all of the players are off in some instance.

Also, I can't agree with the idea that you need instances to solve all of the old problems.  Spawn camping?  Don't design your game around killing some stupid named mob that just respawns when ever it's killed.  Thats just weak. 

Exactly. The notion that instancing is required to solve camping or killstilling is retarded. There are many mechanics and designs that would eliminate those issues without instancing.
 

In the scale between multi and single-player, instancing tips toward the latter. Many of the deep friends I made in EQ were from chance encounters that would not have existed in a world of instancing.

Instance a few dungeons; fine; but do not make the loot therein as good as loot in open dungeons where competition is a factor. If anyone calls me elitist, I will return the favor by calling them communist. They want the same things I have without dedicating the effort to do so. Finding a good camp spot open requires effort and patience.

Yes, gold farmers are a problem. You can greatly reduce this problem by implementing a trivial loot code. Loot simply will not drop unless the party is appropriately leveled. But what if you need an item from a low level dungeon? Buy it from a low level party.

Originally posted by UbinusCol

Hello, fellow MMOers! As you may very well know already from reading the title, I am curious why there's been this noticeable hatred towards instances in MMOs in the forum: Are instances really that horrible?

Take the quintessential instance-heavy game, Guild Wars. Recently, I got back into it and am loving it again. I remember last time that I quit partly due to the game being too team-based but also partly because it was too instanced. Then I went and tried a bunch of free (and crappy) MMOs, as well as gems like LOTRO and WOW (I'm still playing WOW a bit on the side). I finally realized what I'd been missing with GW and came back full-circle.

The point is that, at least to me, seamless environments shared by everyone, while very typical and "appropriate" to MMOs, don't really give that big of an advantage. I mean, partying up with people works just as well in GW as in WOW, and I can't really imagine having a party of more than 8 and getting any extra survivability out of it (unless of course you're talking about end-game, which is just one facet of the MMO experience). Of course, there are the massive PvP events, which are more straight-forward and open-ended in non-instanced MMOs; but then again, GW has one of the most intricate PvP systems to date!

Here's what I think: A game like GW with extensive instancing gives players the choice between single player mode (like in Oblivion and other off-line RPGs) and team play with other players. Albeit an illusion (since I still need an internet connection for it), single player mode is at times more favorable than inescapable immersion.

The bottom line is that, with such instancing as in GW, there is choice.

For all of you instance-haters out there: Please explain to me your position! Thanks.

 

i don't hate instances, they have their place.  i play an MMO to be in a virtual world being consumed by thousands of other players.  instances take that away.  wow has a good mix of world and instances.

eve is the best world w/o instances example.  GW i left because of instances, just felt like a multiplayer game.

There should only be a few instances in any mmo and the rest open dungeons. I'm not exactly a hardcore player, pretty close. But, instances drive me nuts becasue they take away any immersion you felt you had.  Whatever mmo you play and you enter an instnace your no longer apart of the particular world , your apart of that particualr instance only. You are taken away from the game as a whole and the only interaction you will ever have with other players is the ones that go along with you, thats not a real mmo. AOC is the worst  zone in-zone again 2mins later-instance-zone-out-zone-in gad its brutal. like jumping from one closet to another.

Sadly, I doubt another game will be made to those standards and the best I can do is find the closest to my ideal world. EQ is the best when it comes to zones and instances but its too aged now and I just can't bear to stare at the outdated pixelated graphics anymore, heh.