Originally posted by LondonMagus

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by LondonMagus

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by LondonMagus

Originally posted by Elikal

Well, it is simply Funcom lied. They lied there were 1500 armor pieces, they lied with the video presentations, they mislead us giving level 20 armor diversity which is NOT there, they lied about the sieges. Oh and btw, 90% of the MAGICAL speed acceleration after launch was caused by taking out the tree and plant animations for them game! Gawd, after SOE I never thought I found a MMO company who would lie MORE, but apparently with Funcom they found their master. If you dont mind being lied to, thats your right, we live in a free society where we can chose not to be upset when being lied to, just as I AM upset when someone lies me flat in the face. It's all Vanguardian promises not fulfilled again.

If you find being lied to ok, thats your problem. I dont take such behavior easily. I dont lie to others and I expect not to be lied to in return, ESPECIALLY when it comes to buying a product. Its not that I hate AoC, I dont love it either, what I HATE is, being LIED TO to buy a product. Whats not to understand with that?.

Ignoring the drama & bad mathematics about armor sets, just a couple of minor points.

Using block capitals for terms like 'SOE' & 'MMO' is fine because they are acronyms. Interestingly though you don't seem to put 'OK' in block capitals.

Using block capitals on normal english words like 'NOT, 'MAGICAL', 'MORE', 'AM', 'ESPECIALLY', 'HATE', 'LIED' & 'TO' in order to simulate that you are actually shouting as you type is just plain annoying.

Whilst you have every right to your opinion, other people have every right to disagree. If you actually want to convince others that your opinions are correct rather than just rant about them, reasoned logical arguments tend to work better than block capital temper tantrums.

In my opinion of course.

 

Is it any different than ignoring the points someone makes and instead picking apart their grammar and posting style?

Debate the points and not the person.

 

Disliking the unnecessary use of block capitals for emotional effect has as little to do with criticising grammar as your comment about 'debate the points & not the person' has to do with my post.

There weren't any real points to debate or even ignore as he doesn't attempt to form rational arguments, just use lots of emotional outbursts & make unsubstantiated claims.

In his the entire rant, aside from comments about how upset he was, there were only two actual attempts at conveying information. Firstly a claim about missing armour which many other posters have responded to and secondly an extreme unsubstantiated claim about plant animation that even if it had any truth to it was irrelevant.

"Debate the points and not the person" indeed.

Well if he only made two valid points and they were already addressed, then why did you even bother to post?

I see several valid points he makes and a few more than can be implied.  Did Funcom lie?  It sure sounds like it.  Did Funcom take steps to hide the state of the game from prospective buyers.  Again it sure seems like it.  Are there many promised aspects of the game missing?  It sure seems like it.  Did Funcom create open beta armor sets that are not available at that level in live game play to create a false apperance?  It sure seems like it.  I have no idea about the tree/plant animation comments to be fully honest, but did they?

I'm sure you could have taken a few seconds to dispell his points if you had chosen.  At least then you would have addressed his issues instead of just his posting style.

 

The reason I bothered to post was that like many other people who actually enjoy the game I am tired of block capital hysterical mud slinging masquerading as an argument. The reason I addressed his posting style rather than his argument is that it is extremely annoying & once you stripped away the drama there really wasn't much else left.

Did Funcom purposefully mislead people in the way described? I seriously doubt it. Beta tests are not respresentative of the released game so it doesn't matter whether Funcom issued all players with sequinned ballgowns at the end, unless you can prove that they definitively said that this was what would be in the game it is irrelevant.

Did Funcom lie? As any politician will tell you, it all depends on exactly how the original question was phrased, but I certainly don't feel like I was lied to as I didn't spend the weeks before launch building a check list of all the promised features. I just saw enough of the game to know that I was interested enough to try it out for myself. When I finally did get to play the game, whilst I could see quite a few things that were still 'rough around the edges', I enjoyed it enough to keep playing & still do.  

To read all this perpetual lynch mob hysteria you would think that Funcom had been swindling old people out of their life savings rather than just selling fairly inexpensive video games.

It's been over a month now, why don't the people who didn't like the game just find something else to complain about rather than behaving like they are on a mission to protect the planet or something?

So when you are out of arguments you attack the form. Wonderful. Why not attack my grammar as well? Or my hairstyle? Not that it matters, but hey, it sure makes a funny reply.

It is a pity if I offended your Vulcan sense for sobriety, but gawd, I if I would make DRAMA, boy you would NOTICE the DIFFERENCE, trust me! THIS is not drama, given the scope *I* can imagine this is serious, rational, calm approach. The day I make drama you will FEEL the difference, believe it. ;)

Originally posted by Elikal

So when you are out of arguments you attack the form. Wonderful. Why not attack my grammar as well? Or my hairstyle? Not that it matters, but hey, it sure makes a funny reply.

It is a pity if I offended your Vulcan sense for sobriety, but gawd, I if I would make DRAMA, boy you would NOTICE the DIFFERENCE, trust me! THIS is not drama, given the scope *I* can imagine this is serious, rational, calm approach. The day I make drama you will FEEL the difference, believe it. ;)

"Believe it", now you sound like Naruto ;)

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by Dekron

Originally posted by Elikal

the Closed Beta ppl were under NDA to the very last day. That alone spoke volums about how they KNEW in what incomplete and bad state AoC is.

You don't beta test much do you? That is how every game is. I've beta'ed CoH, SWG, CoV, TR, GW, AC, DnL, DAoC, PotBS, EnB, RoE, SoR and even UO. All have had the same requirment of NDAs.

 

No, as a matter of fact few betas were until the very last day. Most betas opened prior to launch or where loosened.

Open betas are a recent trend.

Originally posted by LondonMagus

The reason I bothered to post was that like many other people who actually enjoy the game I am tired of block capital hysterical mud slinging masquerading as an argument. The reason I addressed his posting style rather than his argument is that it is extremely annoying & once you stripped away the drama there really wasn't much else left.

Did Funcom purposefully mislead people in the way described? I seriously doubt it. Beta tests are not respresentative of the released game so it doesn't matter whether Funcom issued all players with sequinned ballgowns at the end, unless you can prove that they definitively said that this was what would be in the game it is irrelevant.

Did Funcom lie? As any politician will tell you, it all depends on exactly how the original question was phrased, but I certainly don't feel like I was lied to as I didn't spend the weeks before launch building a check list of all the promised features. I just saw enough of the game to know that I was interested enough to try it out for myself. When I finally did get to play the game, whilst I could see quite a few things that were still 'rough around the edges', I enjoyed it enough to keep playing & still do.  

Presenting armor set at the end of beta (level 20) and implying that this would be attainable at that level (unless they specifically  mentioned that this armor is NOT attainable at 20) may not be lying, but definitely misleading. In my book, thats just as bad as lying. You will never get a 100% proof of them lying, unless it goes into court. Of course it will never happen. Its pointless to prove who is lying because everybody has different expectations. For some, FC did not mislead and they are satisfied with what they have. For others, they misled and they are angry that they spent money buying product not meeting their satisfaction criteria.

To read all this perpetual lynch mob hysteria you would think that Funcom had been swindling old people out of their life savings rather than just selling fairly inexpensive video games.

I don't find criticism of a game as a hysteria. If someone has an opinion of a game, but has valid arguments/reasons for it, then that person has all the rights to post his thoughts. If you were right, then any negative post to any game would be considered as a hysteria and nobody would post anything bad about anything. As long as there is a valid argument behind your post, its just as valid as anybody else's post.

It's been over a month now, why don't the people who didn't like the game just find something else to complain about rather than behaving like they are on a mission to protect the planet or something?

Well, if somebody complains elsewhere, then someone in that elsewhere would post something what you did and then that person has to come here... or elsewhere elsewhere.

Personally, I tried AoC in beta. I haven't played long or got far in-game - I found it to be bland and uninteresting. however, post like OP interest me a lot because when I read posts like "OMG THIS GAME RULZ !!11" I like to hear the other side for their views. I found OP's post to be valid and informative.

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by LondonMagus

The reason I bothered to post was that like many other people who actually enjoy the game I am tired of block capital hysterical mud slinging masquerading as an argument. The reason I addressed his posting style rather than his argument is that it is extremely annoying & once you stripped away the drama there really wasn't much else left.

Did Funcom purposefully mislead people in the way described? I seriously doubt it. Beta tests are not respresentative of the released game so it doesn't matter whether Funcom issued all players with sequinned ballgowns at the end, unless you can prove that they definitively said that this was what would be in the game it is irrelevant.

Did Funcom lie? As any politician will tell you, it all depends on exactly how the original question was phrased, but I certainly don't feel like I was lied to as I didn't spend the weeks before launch building a check list of all the promised features. I just saw enough of the game to know that I was interested enough to try it out for myself. When I finally did get to play the game, whilst I could see quite a few things that were still 'rough around the edges', I enjoyed it enough to keep playing & still do.  

Presenting armor set at the end of beta (level 20) and implying that this would be attainable at that level (unless they specifically  mentioned that this armor is NOT attainable at 20) may not be lying, but definitely misleading. In my book, thats just as bad as lying. You will never get a 100% proof of them lying, unless it goes into court. Of course it will never happen. Its pointless to prove who is lying because everybody has different expectations. For some, FC did not mislead and they are satisfied with what they have. For others, they misled and they are angry that they spent money buying product not meeting their satisfaction criteria.

 

To read all this perpetual lynch mob hysteria you would think that Funcom had been swindling old people out of their life savings rather than just selling fairly inexpensive video games.

I don't find criticism of a game as a hysteria. If someone has an opinion of a game, but has valid arguments/reasons for it, then that person has all the rights to post his thoughts. If you were right, then any negative post to any game would be considered as a hysteria and nobody would post anything bad about anything. As long as there is a valid argument behind your post, its just as valid as anybody else's post.

It's been over a month now, why don't the people who didn't like the game just find something else to complain about rather than behaving like they are on a mission to protect the planet or something?

Well, if somebody complains elsewhere, then someone in that elsewhere would post something what you did and then that person has to come here... or elsewhere elsewhere.

 

Personally, I tried AoC in beta. I haven't played long or got far in-game - I found it to be bland and uninteresting. however, post like OP interest me a lot because when I read posts like "OMG THIS GAME RULZ !!11" I like to hear the other side for their views. I found OP's post to be valid and informative.

I agree with you entirely that structured criticism isn't hysteria & that everyone has a perfect right to post their views. I have read quite a few very well written negative posts & have even replied to some saying that I agreed with them.

Unfortunately there isn't a valid argument behind quite a lot of the negative posts.

Many negative posts are just rambling expressions of personal preference, where the authors seem to think that anyone that doesn't share their preference is either stupid or a lapdog of Funcom.

Many negative posts don't attempt to argue anything and are just offensive 'Beavis & Butthead' remarks.

Far too many posts are some sort of sick wish fulfilment where claims are made that AoC is Failing, Funcom are going bankrupt, people are burning boxes in the streets etc etc.

There are still a lot of posts about Beta when the majority of players didn't participate or otherwise base their purchase of the game on it. Personally, I couldn't care less about the Beta.

I am sorry you disliked the game, everyone's preferences are different & I respect yours.

The problem with tedious posts on these boards aren't 'Fanboi' posts like 'OMG THIS GAME RULEZ" as you implied, but endless 'Hateboi' ones more like 'OMG THIS GAME SUKZ".

Most things well structured & argued are worth reading, but sadly they appear to be in short supply.

Originally posted by LondonMagus

Unfortunately there isn't a valid argument behind quite a lot of the negative posts.

Many negative posts are just rambling expressions of personal preference, where the authors don't seem to think that anyone that doesn't share their preference is either stupid or a lapdog of Funcom.

Many negative posts don't attempt to argue anything and are just offensive 'Beavis & Butthead' remarks.

You have to admit, a lot of the posts defending the game are equally silly.  This is the way people are on the internet..  I think its probably futile to try to make people change this behaviour.

There is a reason people say 'do not feed the trolls'.

OH NOES THE ARMORS DONT LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME DAMN IM GONNA CANCEL MY ACCOUNT NOW BECAUSE OF THAT DAMN IT!!!! I HAVE NO LIFE LIKE THE OP

Originally posted by Tawn47

Originally posted by LondonMagus

Unfortunately there isn't a valid argument behind quite a lot of the negative posts.

Many negative posts are just rambling expressions of personal preference, where the authors don't seem to think that anyone that doesn't share their preference is either stupid or a lapdog of Funcom.

Many negative posts don't attempt to argue anything and are just offensive 'Beavis & Butthead' remarks.

You have to admit, a lot of the posts defending the game are equally silly.  This is the way people are on the internet..  I think its probably futile to try to make people change this behaviour.

There is a reason people say 'do not feed the trolls'.

Yes I agree, many of the defending posts are equally silly but over last couple of weeks particularly, the majority of defensive posts seem to have been made by people who like myself are just plain bored with seeing the endless streams of hate filled drivel.

The problem with not feeding the trolls is that at this point they are seriously undermining the AoC boards here, so aside from not bothering with MMORPG at all, what choice do we have?

As I recall WoW needed a few months to be stable. And I recall to have left WoW for a few months because they couldnt solve lag problem for a month. At the end of a month away from WoW, I solved my lag problem by myself ( I remember so long Blizzard customs service blaming our ISP, they admitted bad routering after a year).

Age of Conan definetly needs that time as well. Yeah we cry, yeah we flame. But there will be still a lot who will play, and Funcom will use their money to improve the game out of beta status. So far I didn't see any game who didn't have a bad start. I am sure things will become better for AoC as well. However...

However there is something not right with Funcom. They don't listen to the bug reports, but are trying to listen to the whiners. And they change things according to whiners. That's wrong. You cannot spoil a baby by giving a sugar each time she cries, at the end she will cry just to get attention.

Also I worry about the `bug fixes`. 9th patch today, still main bugs are not fixed. They simply cannot fix it. But they keep giving false comments. `We will fix it this wednesay`. That was told by someone high from Funcom. And...? The bug is not fixed, there is not even a comment about it !!!

Age of Conan is a good game, and has lots of potential. But right now it doesn't deserve the time I spend/waste. I am a casual player. After a tiring workday I cannot afford to betatest a broken patch which ruins my entire night.

See you Age of Conan and all Conan fanboys who will tell `You will not be missed`. Hopefully we can meet in 6 monthes when/if the bugs are fixed.

(Why so much whining? Cause I wanted to play AoC and relax tonight. But Funcom screwed something again, and game kept crushing for everyone in the party whenever we entered a fight.)

Originally posted by LondonMagus
 

Yes I agree, many of the defending posts are equally silly but over last couple of weeks particularly, the majority of defensive posts seem to have been made by people who like myself are just plain bored with seeing the endless streams of hate filled drivel.

The problem with not feeding the trolls is that at this point they are seriously undermining the AoC boards here, so aside from not bothering with MMORPG at all, what choice do we have?

I agree that a response of some form must be made - the haters want to make sure nobody else buys a game they believe is flawed.  You want to encourage people to buy a game you think is good.

My advice, is respond with that in mind.  Don't bother telling the hater to shut up or to leave the boards etc..  thats futile and plus it makes you look like an unreasonable fanboy to those potential buyers.  Respond in such a way that you are addressing the potential viewers of the hate thread and stick to facts.  Dismissing the hater as a troll/hater out of hand, even if you know you are justified, actually makes it look (to an outsider) like the hater has a point and it gives the impression that you are in denial.

Originally posted by Tawn47

Originally posted by LondonMagus
 

Yes I agree, many of the defending posts are equally silly but over last couple of weeks particularly, the majority of defensive posts seem to have been made by people who like myself are just plain bored with seeing the endless streams of hate filled drivel.

The problem with not feeding the trolls is that at this point they are seriously undermining the AoC boards here, so aside from not bothering with MMORPG at all, what choice do we have?

 

I agree that a response of some form must be made - the haters want to make sure nobody else buys a game they believe is flawed.  You want to encourage people to buy a game you think is good.

My advice, is respond with that in mind.  Don't bother telling the hater to shut up or to leave the boards etc..  thats futile and plus it makes you look like an unreasonable fanboy to those potential buyers.  Respond in such a way that you are addressing the potential viewers of the hate thread and stick to facts.  Dismissing the hater as a troll/hater out of hand, even if you know you are justified, actually makes it look (to an outsider) like the hater has a point and it gives the impression that you are in denial.