[I'm not a native speaker so please excuse spelling and grammar faults :) ]

 Through a wipe a few players would win a little, but many would lose much.

1) The loss caused by a wipe isn't just about stupid levels or mats, it's about the loss of the virtual soul of your avatar, his life that is the sum of his abilities, his souvenirs collected over the years, his friendslist. If you create your character new from scratch, it's NOT the same character. The stories about the temple wars are not the same if the temples of a new server aren't the product of lived history anymore, the history WE, the players forged together. The products of all the diplomatic negotiations, the results of hate and love between the chars - all would be turned to ashes. Of course there will be new stories, but there will be deep deep scars and breaks in the character's profile that would make RP very hard, without introducing ridiculous things like divine intervention or memory loss.

With a wipe all characters would die. There will be always an "old" avatar who died in a kind of nuclear catastrophy and burnt with all his skills, memories, souvenirs and achievements to ashes. "Make a new one." Would you say to parents who lost their child: "Make a new one?" Of course this example is exaggerated, but I think you get the point.

And no, I'm NOT looking forward to the death of my avatar I've built up over three years, the loss of the planet WE changed, that carries OUR footsteps, the destruction of the last three years of roleplay, fights, events, no, im NOT looking forward to this.

Ryzom once advertised that the players can change the planet and the planet's history. So we DID change the planet with our avatars, with our fights, alliances, events. We DID write history. How can give someone a shit on all this and shout: "Wipe it, wipe it"? Everyone who wants to see this history die, who wants to wipe off the things we've built up, kicks the soul of Ryzom by kicking one of the core thoughts of the game.

2) How long would the "wipe-effect" last? The "good old times" wouldn't be brought back through this. The Old Ones know about the level spots, the boss mobs, the trek routes, the OP-tactics. The feeling to discover a world is tied to your brain, not to your levels. A wipe wouldn't bring it back.
New players can't take any profit out of this. The old ones will outlevel them with ease, they take control over the OPs, the level and foraging spots, the economy. The damage of a wipe as stated above would be done, but nothing new or better would be achieved for new players.

How much time does a player need to level the most important skills (Melee, heal, ele) to 250 if he knows about the spots and maybe supported by crystals? Two, three months? After one month there would be the first who have elemental magics on 250, after two months the first master foragers, after three months the first multi-250ies. And these people would then think: "Oh, great. I'm now there where I was before the wipe..." and then I'm curious what they think if they compare their 3-Months-Grinding-Fun against the loss of 3 years.

Let it be four or five months and the old ones got back their 250 in the important skills and the oh-so-great "Let's start new" effect (that was diminished by our old knowledge anyway!) is over.

You would punish the decent loyal long-term players that do events, RP and don't only think about grinding. And you would push the extreme grinders and aggressive powergamers. And this helps the community? This helps new players? This helps the company to bring Ryzom forward?

And the newbies? They would face overcrowded levelspots. They can't outlevel our knowledge. They would come into the old guilds that reformed. After three months after the wipe the newbies wouldn't face another atys than one that hasn't been wiped out. So where is the effect, the profit of a wipe for newbies?

Maybe you could attract new players through a wipe? "Come play Ryzom, we've deleted all the avatars of our long-term loyal customers!" That sounds good in my ears, I cant wait to join such a game. Maybe if I join the game and if im lucky I will have the chance that my avatar will get deleted too... Sorry for the polemics, but I can't the see benefit for new players or a benefit for Ryzom in a wipe.

To sacrifice all that we've gone through in the last three years, all that we've built up in politics, game culture, history, events for just 3 Months of heavy grinding with NO profit for new players. *shakes head*

The wipe-effect will be absolutely short-term. In skills, in guilds, in dappers, in OPs.

3) A wipe won't bring back the old feeling. The thrill when you first entered the roots, the excitement when you first met a huge named... that's not tied to your levels. You won't have the same thrill. It's an illusion that you will get back that feeling through a wipe.

Yes, I will play Ryzom even if there is a wipe. But I would hate the wipe. It's the death of OUR planet  and OUR history for some months of grind-fest, leading to the same results we have now with no use for new players.

Think twice before you want a wipe. Consider short-term to long-term. Consider what we lose and what we gain.

Advertisement and development are the keys. No wipe. A wipe won't attract new players but has the potential of repelling old long-term loyal paying customers. What kind of silly marketing strategy is that?

Dentom, i quote every single word you wrote.

Why don't you post this in the official forum too?

He did - in the German Forums...consider this a more publically accessible translation

*agrees with dentom*

Besides, the whole wipe idea/rumour is still as ridiculously unlikely as ever.

Originally posted by green13

Originally posted by Battleskar

Personally I think a complete wipe would be a good thing they would probably gain new subscribers who are interested (Like Me) in starting from scratch with everyone else starting from the bottom as well.

Score 1 for the tall poppy syndrome theory!

Originally posted by Seiren

I have to agree with Rushin. A wipe out and a fresh start would be the best direction as long as there is the feeling of a new game-world...

 

And this is where the 'wipe' argument turns circular. Not meaning to pick on you Seiren, just your post was the most recent.

Pro-wipe: We should wipe for a fresh start.

Anti-wipe: You mean you just want to drag everyone else back to your level?

Pro-wipe: No, levels mean nothing. They're easy to gain. Game experience is more important anyway.

Anti-wipe: Uhuh...

Pro-wipe: No really, we just want a fresh start.

Anti-wipe: So levels are meaningless but resetting them will give us a "fresh start", even though you'll have all that game-experience under your belt... Riiiiight.

Pro-wipe: But moving on, wiping will give developers a chance to fix all the problems.

Anti-wipe: These problems that have existed for a long time?

Pro-wipe: Yeah those ones.

Anti-wipe: Didn't you say it wouldn't take long to regain those levels? So how much time would that give developers?

Pro-wipe: Well yeah, but...

--------

I can only see two reasons for a wipe, neither of them good:

1) Players ala Battleskar wanting to drag everyone else back to their level. And kudos to him for having the nads to just come out and say it.

2) The new game owners wanting to artificially extend the logevity of the game by making players replay it all from scratch.

I think Madsam also makes some good points and it takes me back to a few mmos I played on release. There's this insane mad levelling rush, led a bit by folk from beta who know where all the good stuff is and use that knowledge to corner markets and price-gouge. It's all race, race, race and not so much about actually enjoying the game.

And if they actually want to pick up and retain new players, wiping the existing player database could be disastrous. The game's history is already quite rocky enough, having changed ownership several times due to essentially failing. Can you imagine trying to market this game to new players if they wiped the player database on top of that?

Yeah, come and play this twice-failed four-year old mmo. Chances are you'll be able to play for oh, maybe 12 months before we go bankrupt again and oh yeah, even if the game continues under new owners, you could lose your character cos that's already happened once.

Wiping the player database... well Spiderweb International would be better off releasing a statement that they're former SOE renegades who were responsible for the NGE.

Dude if came to a wipe or no Ryzom what would you choose? Its not like your getting to enjoy the game or anything you may have accomplished right now. I personally do not care what they do just get the game going again so some of us new players can begin our adventures in Atys. Gripe ,complain do what you will the truth is its all gone right now so if its a wipe or not makes no difference.
 

By the way I think this is the 1st game I know of that has a real possibility of being ressurected from the dead that I know of be grateful you may have another chance to play it. I would love to see Earth and Beyond get another chance woth a new company,but it will not ever happen. I have played several mmo's and accomplished alot including SWG Jedi if they would start a new classic server as a complete wipe I would have no complaints about starting over again evern tho I worked (Actually had fun grinding it) for it.

Originally posted by Battleskar

Dude if came to a wipe or no Ryzom what would you choose? Its not like your getting to enjoy the game or anything you may have accomplished right now. I personally do not care what they do just get the game going again so some of us new players can begin our adventures in Atys. Gripe ,complain do what you will the truth is its all gone right now so if its a wipe or not makes no difference.
 

I think someone in the company that owns ryzom (Spiderweb?) is observing the community. And I think that someone there tries to get an idea of the feelings of the player concerning several themes.

And I also think that the topic "wipe yes or no" is something that they have to consider. And if the over-all impression is: NO WIPE they may tend to keep the database instead of dropping it if the whole community favors a wipe.

So the discussion about it isn't completely useless, I think the overall-impression concerning that topic can be important.

If there was a wipe I'd probably join the game. The main reason I didnt play much more than reaching the mainland was lack of anyone to play with since most people were all mastery heroes out in who knows where the dangerous lands were

After a wipe you would face the same problem again after one or two months - the starter regions would be as empty as before. A wipe isn't a solution.

I play three years now and i still have so many melee-Levels (one-hand and two-hand) that are low. And if I look around in my guild there are even more that have Levels below 100. In Ryzom you will hardly found someone who hasn't some low-skills even after years of playing. That's one of the biggest advantages of ryzom.

Originally posted by randomt

If there was a wipe I'd probably join the game. The main reason I didnt play much more than reaching the mainland was lack of anyone to play with since most people were all mastery heroes out in who knows where the dangerous lands were

That's really strange, m8. Most of people that reached more masters, still had many other lower. It was really fun for me to go teaming with new guildies getting the chance to play with other, low level, skills.

And for sure i would be happy to level with you if we just got the chance to team together.

The skill system of Ryzom is so good that you don't need any *artificial* releveling such as *sidekick* in CoH or other names i dont remember in other mmo, also encouraging you to start different without rolling another char.

Just for people not knowing the whole skill system of Ryzom:

ballisticmystix.net/

as you can see, skills branch at certain levels, ending up with a huge tree of skills, and each can be mastered at 250.

Why would they wipe? That would be a very dumb business decision.

Originally posted by dentom

Originally posted by Battleskar

Dude if came to a wipe or no Ryzom what would you choose? Its not like your getting to enjoy the game or anything you may have accomplished right now. I personally do not care what they do just get the game going again so some of us new players can begin our adventures in Atys. Gripe ,complain do what you will the truth is its all gone right now so if its a wipe or not makes no difference.
 

 

I think someone in the company that owns ryzom (Spiderweb?) is observing the community. And I think that someone there tries to get an idea of the feelings of the player concerning several themes.

And I also think that the topic "wipe yes or no" is something that they have to consider. And if the over-all impression is: NO WIPE they may tend to keep the database instead of dropping it if the whole community favors a wipe.

So the discussion about it isn't completely useless, I think the overall-impression concerning that topic can be important.

I agree with you and when I said I personally think they should start new it was my opinion there are alot of people who like to launch with a game whether it be a new server or a new game launch. I respect all players and if they choose not to wipe them I am happy with that as well. It was my opinion and mine alone on whether or not they start new or not. I guess what I was trying to say is we do not need vets complaining about it since we have a shot at playing this game again be thankful this game is getting a second chance it deserves it because its a great game. I think it was not advertised correctly,plus it had alot of competion. I think now is the time for them to relaunch it tho before Lich King releases,Warhammer releases ,and while there are some disapponted conan players they have a good oppurtunity right now with this game.

Originally posted by dentom

[I'm not a native speaker so please excuse spelling and grammar faults :) ]

 Through a wipe a few players would win a little, but many would lose much.

1) The loss caused by a wipe isn't just about stupid levels or mats, it's about the loss of the virtual soul of your avatar, his life that is the sum of his abilities, his souvenirs collected over the years, his friendslist. If you create your character new from scratch, it's NOT the same character. The stories about the temple wars are not the same if the temples of a new server aren't the product of lived history anymore, the history WE, the players forged together. The products of all the diplomatic negotiations, the results of hate and love between the chars - all would be turned to ashes. Of course there will be new stories, but there will be deep deep scars and breaks in the character's profile that would make RP very hard, without introducing ridiculous things like divine intervention or memory loss.

With a wipe all characters would die. There will be always an "old" avatar who died in a kind of nuclear catastrophy and burnt with all his skills, memories, souvenirs and achievements to ashes. "Make a new one." Would you say to parents who lost their child: "Make a new one?" Of course this example is exaggerated, but I think you get the point.

And no, I'm NOT looking forward to the death of my avatar I've built up over three years, the loss of the planet WE changed, that carries OUR footsteps, the destruction of the last three years of roleplay, fights, events, no, im NOT looking forward to this.

Ryzom once advertised that the players can change the planet and the planet's history. So we DID change the planet with our avatars, with our fights, alliances, events. We DID write history. How can give someone a shit on all this and shout: "Wipe it, wipe it"? Everyone who wants to see this history die, who wants to wipe off the things we've built up, kicks the soul of Ryzom by kicking one of the core thoughts of the game.

 

2) How long would the "wipe-effect" last? The "good old times" wouldn't be brought back through this. The Old Ones know about the level spots, the boss mobs, the trek routes, the OP-tactics. The feeling to discover a world is tied to your brain, not to your levels. A wipe wouldn't bring it back.
New players can't take any profit out of this. The old ones will outlevel them with ease, they take control over the OPs, the level and foraging spots, the economy. The damage of a wipe as stated above would be done, but nothing new or better would be achieved for new players.

How much time does a player need to level the most important skills (Melee, heal, ele) to 250 if he knows about the spots and maybe supported by crystals? Two, three months? After one month there would be the first who have elemental magics on 250, after two months the first master foragers, after three months the first multi-250ies. And these people would then think: "Oh, great. I'm now there where I was before the wipe..." and then I'm curious what they think if they compare their 3-Months-Grinding-Fun against the loss of 3 years.

Let it be four or five months and the old ones got back their 250 in the important skills and the oh-so-great "Let's start new" effect (that was diminished by our old knowledge anyway!) is over.

You would punish the decent loyal long-term players that do events, RP and don't only think about grinding. And you would push the extreme grinders and aggressive powergamers. And this helps the community? This helps new players? This helps the company to bring Ryzom forward?

And the newbies? They would face overcrowded levelspots. They can't outlevel our knowledge. They would come into the old guilds that reformed. After three months after the wipe the newbies wouldn't face another atys than one that hasn't been wiped out. So where is the effect, the profit of a wipe for newbies?

Maybe you could attract new players through a wipe? "Come play Ryzom, we've deleted all the avatars of our long-term loyal customers!" That sounds good in my ears, I cant wait to join such a game. Maybe if I join the game and if im lucky I will have the chance that my avatar will get deleted too... Sorry for the polemics, but I can't the see benefit for new players or a benefit for Ryzom in a wipe.

To sacrifice all that we've gone through in the last three years, all that we've built up in politics, game culture, history, events for just 3 Months of heavy grinding with NO profit for new players. *shakes head*

The wipe-effect will be absolutely short-term. In skills, in guilds, in dappers, in OPs.

 

3) A wipe won't bring back the old feeling. The thrill when you first entered the roots, the excitement when you first met a huge named... that's not tied to your levels. You won't have the same thrill. It's an illusion that you will get back that feeling through a wipe.

 

Yes, I will play Ryzom even if there is a wipe. But I would hate the wipe. It's the death of OUR planet  and OUR history for some months of grind-fest, leading to the same results we have now with no use for new players.

Think twice before you want a wipe. Consider short-term to long-term. Consider what we lose and what we gain.

Advertisement and development are the keys. No wipe. A wipe won't attract new players but has the potential of repelling old long-term loyal paying customers. What kind of silly marketing strategy is that?

Very well said here I appreciate this response thx.
 

Originally posted by dentom

After a wipe you would face the same problem again after one or two months - the starter regions would be as empty as before. A wipe isn't a solution.

I play three years now and i still have so many melee-Levels (one-hand and two-hand) that are low. And if I look around in my guild there are even more that have Levels below 100. In Ryzom you will hardly found someone who hasn't some low-skills even after years of playing. That's one of the biggest advantages of ryzom.

If they add some things to the starter areas that would cause the higher levels to return to those areas is a good idea. Take wow for instance they kept Auction Houses in the Home cities in order to keep vets returning to the starter areas to make the game feel full and alive to new players this was a very good idea and its been a win for that game I think. I am done with wow it was fun for what it was I still yearn for a game similar to SWG pre-cu and this game has the feel it once had. I am playing Swg and EQ2 currently until Ryzom comes back.

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Originally posted by green13
And this is where the 'wipe' argument turns circular. Not meaning to pick on you Seiren, just your post was the most recent.

---

No worries we are all here discussing the topic, I take nothing personal, and my post was me being sarcastic. A wipe of the characters is unlikely. It isn’t a concern. And I stated that several post before the one you quoted. I think Rushin was being sarcastic as well.

I will point out that I’m an old fan of Ryzom; my characters on Atispotle have levels in the 250 and not only on my main character. I know the hard work and journey of a character on Atys. I had characters divided in two accounts. My guild’s name is edge on the Kami temple in Pyr along the many guilds that fought during the Temple Wars. I have as much to lose as any other player who has been on Ryzom since 2005. I have a nice gold Aen Armor that is priceless for-yubos-sake.

The point was that a clean wipe would have to be well thought out giving Ryzom fans a fresh new world and that maybe with this third chance the developers can implement complete features. I think that’s what Rushin was stating and I agree with her.

I personally would love to get back to Atys and find it all new again, familiar, but nothing as I remember it. It may be selfish of me to want that, but it isn’t because I haven’t work hard and done the grind, I have and would do it again. I want Ryzom back and now that it has a third chance I want it improved and at its potential. That’s not asking too much, is it?

Originally posted by Battleskar

Dude if came to a wipe or no Ryzom what would you choose?

I have answered this question already, but it's a long thread and anyone could be forgiven for missing bits.

I'd probably not come back. Losing my own character wouldn't be an issue. I was only a couple of months old - around 160'ish in harvesting and a few crafts and a bit under 200 in a couple of magic schools. A wipe wouldn't be a terrible loss for me.

I object, and argue as I do, on principle.

Because this "wipe" campaign is attempted vandalism. Other people have something that you (I refer to wipers in general) don't want them to have so you want it destroyed. The new owners doing this would be an unconscionable and unforgivable breach of trust.

Anyone who wants a fresh start can delete their own character. Petitioning the owners to do anything to other peoples' characters is a form of thuggery.

Originally posted by green13

Originally posted by Battleskar

Dude if came to a wipe or no Ryzom what would you choose?

 

I have answered this question already, but it's a long thread and anyone could be forgiven for missing bits.

I'd probably not come back. Losing my own character wouldn't be an issue. I was only a couple of months old - around 160'ish in harvesting and a few crafts and a bit under 200 in a couple of magic schools. A wipe wouldn't be a terrible loss for me.

I object, and argue as I do, on principle.

Because this "wipe" campaign is attempted vandalism. Other people have something that you (I refer to wipers in general) don't want them to have so you want it destroyed. The new owners doing this would be an unconscionable and unforgivable breach of trust.

Anyone who wants a fresh start can delete their own character. Petitioning the owners to do anything to other peoples' characters is a form of thuggery.

Please do not misunderstand what I have said here I do not wish at all for anyone to lose anything they achieved in Ryzom ,I am simpley stating that it would be better that it start as a wipe if it has to than to have no ryzom at all to play. I think I stated this in above posts, but for some reason it was missed here it is again:P I really do want ryzom back up and running because I really liked the trial and hope to experience the entire game . Please do not mistake my comments as Anti-Vets I am not against the vets of this game it is the vets who made it what it was and I look forward to playing with them again if its a wipe or not thx.
 

Originally posted by Seiren

 

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The point was that a clean wipe would have to be well thought out giving Ryzom fans a fresh new world and that maybe with this third chance the developers can implement complete features. I think that’s what Rushin was stating and I agree with her.

 

I only played for a few months but my impression was that the incomplete features were all over the place, starting on Silan and going all the way up.

Wiping the player database would only give them time to fix things if all those incomplete features were "end-game" content.

And they're not.

In fact, my experience was that whenever I encountered those incomplete/imperfect features, it was the existing higher level player base that stepped neatly into the breach - which made the game playable.

Originally posted by Battleskar

Please do not misunderstand what I have said here I do not wish at all for anyone to lose anything they achieved in Ryzom ,I am simpley stating that it would be better that it start as a wipe if it has to than to have no ryzom at all to play. I think I stated this in above posts, but for some reason it was missed here it is again:P
 

I don't think I misunderstood you.

Originally posted by Battleskar

Personally I think a complete wipe would be a good thing they would probably gain new subscribers who are interested (Like Me) in starting from scratch with everyone else starting from the bottom as well.

Since Ryzom does appear to be returning, I don't see any point in comparing no Ryzom to a wiped-playerbase Ryzom.

The two alternatives on the table are a deliberately wiped-playerbase Ryzom and a fully restored Ryzom.

playerbase is small enough as it is without losing half of it due to wiping the servers

amazes me anyone can be daunted by the high level people in ryzom as I've seen it 10000000 times some nub become a vet (in levels at least) within weeks. Ryzom is far less about levels and more about knowledge in my opinion, the game actually *starts* when you hit your masters.