Interesting post....

If EA have done proper research into the market (of which they have no excuse not to), they would find that Games Workshop (refered to as GW in this reply) is more than 'nerdy teenagers spending hours with minitures.' It is infact a strong and fairly large community base, which cover a wide spectrum of players...

As for whether EA will make a bad job of it, I can't see why they would risk such a thing, and with GW keeping a close eye on development, Im sure that will help any slip ups, as a bad game could hurt GW as well as EA...

As for the general thinking of 'just nerdy teenagers spending hours on minitures' thing is GW have quite a little niche market, I mean its pretty much a fully customizable RP game, that has despite advances in computer technology and the like has held up pretty well.. which brings me on to another point, if WAR turns out to be a real good game, might it actually hurt the GW customer base? I mean anybody who has ever played the tabletop game will know what I mean when I talk about high cost table top gaming,even if it does go retail and has even a fairly high monthly price, it would still be cheaper effectively than the tabletop game.....

So I think the question should be, not so much will EA hurt WAR, but will GW feel it could lose out if WAR is super sucessful??

Final point: notice how it keeps getting pushed back, is this because EA are sticking their foot in? or because GW want something better or changes made? 

Originally posted by gillvane1

Who cares who the developers is? I don't get all teh SOE haters either. Either the game is good, in which case I'll play it, or the game isn't good, in which case I won't.

Most people don't like SOE because of what they did to SWG & EA because of what they did to UO.  It's not just because they develop bad games, it's because they buy out good games, and then turn them into bad games.... and.... also because they develop bad games.

The good news about EA acquiring Mythic is they are leaving the developers alone for now.  Seems like they finally realized that they needed to get some real MMO developers in their company, and then not eff it up.

Originally posted by G_Ravenor

Interesting post....

Thanks.  :D  I was being mostly sarcastic.

If EA have done proper research into the market (of which they have no excuse not to), they would find that Games Workshop (refered to as GW in this reply) is more than 'nerdy teenagers spending hours with minitures.' It is infact a strong and fairly large community base, which cover a wide spectrum of players...

Ya, exactly.  But EA, up to this point, does not have a good track record of sticking to the core player base for their MMO games.  Instead, trying to appeal to a broader audience, and in the process, killing the games.

As for whether EA will make a bad job of it, I can't see why they would risk such a thing, and with GW keeping a close eye on development, Im sure that will help any slip ups, as a bad game could hurt GW as well as EA...

Lets hope this is true.  But, quite honestly, if you had told me that the current LOTRO is what the Tolkien license holders would have approved for an online game set in Middle-Earth I would have said you're crazy.   I know, different companies, but marketing people have a way to spin things to a make it sound like "this" is the best direction the game could go & kind of tricking the license representatives into agreeing with them.  Not saying that it will happen with GW, but I no longer think it is a crazy idea that it could.

As for the general thinking of 'just nerdy teenagers spending hours on minitures' thing is GW have quite a little niche market, I mean its pretty much a fully customizable RP game, that has despite advances in computer technology and the like has held up pretty well.. which brings me on to another point, if WAR turns out to be a real good game, might it actually hurt the GW customer base? I mean anybody who has ever played the tabletop game will know what I mean when I talk about high cost table top gaming,even if it does go retail and has even a fairly high monthly price, it would still be cheaper effectively than the tabletop game.....

So I think the question should be, not so much will EA hurt WAR, but will GW feel it could lose out if WAR is super sucessful??

I was just joking around about the nerdy teenager thing.  To answer your inquiry, I would wager that it would have the opposite effect.  Introducing PC gamers to the Warhammer world & getting the interested enough into playing the miniatures game.  I think that the tabletop & MMO game are far enough removed from each other that people would not stop playing the tabletop game simply because there is an MMO set in the Warhammer world.

Final point: notice how it keeps getting pushed back, is this because EA are sticking their foot in? or because GW want something better or changes made? 

From what I have read, it seems more like the Mythic heads are the ones at the front of the delays.  They don't want to make a bad game & they talked EA into giving them more time to finish.  That's just what the press release from Jeff Hickman said after the last delay.  I suppose he could be lying, or stretching the truth.  But it's really all we have to go on.

Originally posted by Dameonk

Ya, but lets be honest.  Is the EA brass really that smart?  Or, more accurately, do they think of the already established player base that WAR has as anything more than nerdy teenagers that spend hours at Games Workshop playing with their minatures.

If they do manage to screw up WAR, I can guess that the staff meeting went something like this:

EA: The player base is too narrow, we need to appeal to WoW players.

Mythic:  But we're trying to make a game to appeal to the RvR fans & fans of the Warhammer franchise.

EA: No, not good enough.  Those kids probably won't even be able to borrow enough money from thier mom's to pay for the game.

Mythic:  Wha...?

EA: Make it more like WoW.

Mythic:  No.

EA: You're fired.  EA Loyal Programmer 193 get in there and make the game more like WoW.

This scenario would sound plausible if there weren't one tiny annoying little guy from England and the most brutal game company EVER backing him up.

Games Workshop is the second player in this game and they hold the plug. Although EA has sunk tens of millions of $$ into the project, GW still has the veto power over the whole shebang and they, being the sharks they are, won't hesitate a millisecond to use it.

I really don't think GW will allow any substantial straying from their IP's essence and that is total and eternal WAR. They've already killed one MMO based on Warhammer  that went into the PvE raiding "story" crap direction. They will do it again if need be.

The purity and iconicness of their IP is their most important possession that enabled them to survive the lean nineties. They are perfectly capable of eschewing any fast bucks in order to preserve the hen that has been laying golden eggs for so long. Their financial security stems from miniatures sales and they won't allow that to be damaged by bad PR from a sub-quality game or one presenting the IP in an innacurate manner.

This is all I have to say.....

Originally posted by TheSheikh

This is all I have to say.....

I laughed.

Originally posted by kaydinv

Originally posted by Bealzagre

I am not, exactly, looking forward to WAR, but I've always liked Warhammer, mostly 40k, so I am hoping that WAR does do well, and happens to be a decent game. However, seeing that EA has a foot in the game worries me, greatly. I know that EA only bought the company, so it may not be utterly corrupted, but as they do, so often, they may still pump WAR full of SecuRom. 

For those that are not yet aware, SecuRom is a nasty security program that is meant to prevent pirating music, games, and such. That is fine, but the program works more like a virus, and often attacks a person's system for little reason. This program is, more or less, illegal to use, but EA still fills their programs with it. Hell, even emails from EA can have it.

Now, although the recent threat of lawsuits may be toning the use of this program down, given EA's history, does anyone else worry about the future of WAR?

 

Yes, because EA ruined the best MMORPG ever created. This game will be a WoW clone, sorry.

[Those two statements are unrelated]

lol.

The guy who killed UO ( Tom Chilton) is now a lead designer at Blizzard.

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Originally posted by Bealzagre
I am not, exactly, looking forward to WAR, but I've always liked Warhammer, mostly 40k, so I am hoping that WAR does do well, and happens to be a decent game. However, seeing that EA has a foot in the game worries me, greatly. I know that EA only bought the company, so it may not be utterly corrupted, but as they do, so often, they may still pump WAR full of SecuRom.
For those that are not yet aware, SecuRom is a nasty security program that is meant to prevent pirating music, games, and such. That is fine, but the program works more like a virus, and often attacks a person's system for little reason. This program is, more or less, illegal to use, but EA still fills their programs with it. Hell, even emails from EA can have it.
Now, although the recent threat of lawsuits may be toning the use of this program down, given EA's history, does anyone else worry about the future of WAR?

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This is a joke right? Your actually blaming EA for trying to protect their intellectual property? Perhaps you should focus your attention on the people that hack and resell EA property illegally.

If people would stop breaking the law, EA would have no need to do this. Sorry kid, but your blaming the wrong folks here.

Originally posted by Bealzagre

I am not, exactly, looking forward to WAR, but I've always liked Warhammer, mostly 40k, so I am hoping that WAR does do well, and happens to be a decent game. However, seeing that EA has a foot in the game worries me, greatly. I know that EA only bought the company, so it may not be utterly corrupted, but as they do, so often, they may still pump WAR full of SecuRom. 

For those that are not yet aware, SecuRom is a nasty security program that is meant to prevent pirating music, games, and such. That is fine, but the program works more like a virus, and often attacks a person's system for little reason. This program is, more or less, illegal to use, but EA still fills their programs with it. Hell, even emails from EA can have it.

Now, although the recent threat of lawsuits may be toning the use of this program down, given EA's history, does anyone else worry about the future of WAR?

How can something be "more or less" illegal?

guys. think about it this way EA wants to make money...pure and simple they have made bad games only because they thought the games were good and thought they could sell...

EA knows this and knows how great DAoC was...They have spend to much money in to this game to even think about messing it up now...Games Workshop is breathing over Mythic's shoulder from start to finish ...EA supplies the money ....Thats it

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Originally posted by Bealzagre
I am not, exactly, looking forward to WAR, but I've always liked Warhammer, mostly 40k, so I am hoping that WAR does do well, and happens to be a decent game. However, seeing that EA has a foot in the game worries me, greatly. I know that EA only bought the company, so it may not be utterly corrupted, but as they do, so often, they may still pump WAR full of SecuRom. 
For those that are not yet aware, SecuRom is a nasty security program that is meant to prevent pirating music, games, and such. That is fine, but the program works more like a virus, and often attacks a person's system for little reason. This program is, more or less, illegal to use, but EA still fills their programs with it. Hell, even emails from EA can have it.
Now, although the recent threat of lawsuits may be toning the use of this program down, given EA's history, does anyone else worry about the future of WAR?

---

This is a perfect post example of a rabid anti-EA troll.

Why would they add secrum to a MMO? Do you realize that they give away free trail clients for MMO's?

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Originally posted by Union

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Originally posted by Bealzagre

I am not, exactly, looking forward to WAR, but I've always liked Warhammer, mostly 40k, so I am hoping that WAR does do well, and happens to be a decent game. However, seeing that EA has a foot in the game worries me, greatly. I know that EA only bought the company, so it may not be utterly corrupted, but as they do, so often, they may still pump WAR full of SecuRom. 
For those that are not yet aware, SecuRom is a nasty security program that is meant to prevent pirating music, games, and such. That is fine, but the program works more like a virus, and often attacks a person's system for little reason. This program is, more or less, illegal to use, but EA still fills their programs with it. Hell, even emails from EA can have it.
Now, although the recent threat of lawsuits may be toning the use of this program down, given EA's history, does anyone else worry about the future of WAR?

---

 
How can something be "more or less" illegal?

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It isn't. There is no law preventing secrom or any other program like it. Of course think for a moment why would EA waste resources on adding stuff like secrom on a MMO when they are only going to give the client away in a few months to entice subscribers? Please don't entertain this troll any longer.

Fine, the use of SecuRom is often banned, and is, generally, frowned upon. Is that better than "More or less illegal"? Stopping piratsy is all well and good, but using a program that often damages systems for little reason is not the way to do it. That is like destroying a food market just because someone shoplifted from there. The whole point of this was, with EA's bad history, along with their shady ethics and business practices, one may just worry about the state of the game.

Also, it would be lovely if people could speak of their opinions and debate them with some level of basic decorum, not people endlessly tossing the words "Kid", or some such, trying to belittle people that hold a different view from your own. And, mostly, the elitists that toss around the word "Troll"...yes, because everyone that gains any negative view of anything most be a bloody troll, correct?

This is my honest opinion, and I'd damn-well like a civil sharing of ideas of it...forgive me if I -honestly- believe that EA could pull off something under-handed. MMO or not, it is my opinion, I've shared it, and would just like feed-back from people along the lines of "Yes, I agree, because.." or "No, I disagree because.." Most people have remained polite with their opinions, and I thank them, but it is when people decide an opinion has earned a personal attack that I get so very twitchy.

But, anyway....That has been very little of that, and even anything viewed as an "attacK" is on the very mild, at best, so that is good. It was lovely to read most of the opinions, here, and it has even given me a spark of hope for the game.

Originally posted by Bealzagre

Fine, the use of SecuRom is often banned, and is, generally, frowned upon. Is that better than "More or less illegal"? Stopping piratsy is all well and good, but using a program that often damages systems for little reason is not the way to do it. That is like destroying a food market just because someone shoplifted from there. The whole point of this was, with EA's bad history, along with their shady ethics and business practices, one may just worry about the state of the game.

Also, it would be lovely if people could speak of their opinions and debate them with some level of basic decorum, not people endlessly tossing the words "Kid", or some such, trying to belittle people that hold a different view from your own. And, mostly, the elitists that toss around the word "Troll"...yes, because everyone that gains any negative view of anything most be a bloody troll, correct?

This is my honest opinion, and I'd damn-well like a civil sharing of ideas of it...forgive me if I -honestly- believe that EA could pull off something under-handed. MMO or not, it is my opinion, I've shared it, and would just like feed-back from people along the lines of "Yes, I agree, because.." or "No, I disagree because.." Most people have remained polite with their opinions, and I thank them, but it is when people decide an opinion has earned a personal attack that I get so very twitchy.

But, anyway....That has been very little of that, and even anything viewed as an "attacK" is on the very mild, at best, so that is good. It was lovely to read most of the opinions, here, and it has even given me a spark of hope for the game.

You cannot fault a company for trying to protect its Intellectual Property. That being said, measures like SecureRom don't seem viable for most MMOs, as their is no copy-protection (you don't need the disk in your drive), and everything is subscription-based, requiring a valid CD-Key to make an account.

If, on the other hand, this is also an anti-hacking tool - validates the state of all files against what they should be - I can understand that as well. I've played in too many games (such as PSO/PSU) where people have devised hacks and exploited the game. This ruins the economy and playing experience for many people.

All that said, I really hope EA is nothing more than a ginanfial consideration. I think the company has become too big for its britches (is that even a real saying, heh) and relies less on innovation and more on corporate pressure to expand its sphere of influence. I hope, and have no reason to believe otherwise right now, that EA stays hands off and allows WAR to wrap up development in an organic fashion.

Originally posted by Dameonk

Ya, but lets be honest.  Is the EA brass really that smart?  Or, more accurately, do they think of the already established player base that WAR has as anything more than nerdy teenagers that spend hours at Games Workshop playing with their minatures.

If they do manage to screw up WAR, I can guess that the staff meeting went something like this:

EA: The player base is too narrow, we need to appeal to WoW players.

Mythic:  But we're trying to make a game to appeal to the RvR fans & fans of the Warhammer franchise.

EA: No, not good enough.  Those kids probably won't even be able to borrow enough money from thier mom's to pay for the game.

Mythic:  Wha...?

EA: Make it more like WoW.

Mythic:  No.

EA: You're fired.  EA Loyal Programmer 193 get in there and make the game more like WoW.

I laughed ty for that but you forgot one part.
 

Games Workshop: Wha? turning the game into crap again EA? Eh we are pulling the plug, congrats on waisting millions of dollars.

As others have said, if GW doesnt like the way things are going they will pull the plug, there reputation is at stake to.