Originally posted by Mrxknown

 

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Then please enlighten us and ALL the developers in the MMO market. What should they do?

 

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-No Insurance for your ship

-Make it so it takes about a half an hour of manually mining to get a good fighter, a couple hours for a capital ship, about a day for heavy starbases.

-Allow players to hire NPC automatic miners, or some sort of mining structure, a risky investment.

-No PvP zones, nothing is invulnerable, everything is destructable, no instancing, full looting.

-fuel costs fuel that was actually mined, missles that were actually produced  by players, and equipment wear out.

-All Player made equipment like in SWG, no computer made equipment.

-Player structures where players store items, or build factories.

Now each faction can war against another, each faction providing mutual defense for each other.  Since it doesn't take forever to grind for your gear players will have more time to fight each other and it won't be such a big deal if they lose equipment.

In every game I played, all of the reballancing rules, all the PvP zones, all the invulnerabilities, nerfings and buffings and buffings and nerfings boil down to one thing; it takes forever to grind for your gear.

With the exception of WWIIONLINE and PLANETSIDE every game on the list to the left follows the same old worn out formula:  heavy grinding, no risk.  No risk because there is heavy grinding, heavy grinding because there is no risk, both principles feed back on each other.

Originally posted by VideoJockey

 

Originally posted by Nerf09

 

Originally posted by eric_w66

If you could fly the best ships from day 1, there wouldn't be much to call it a MMO.... that'd be more of a FPS type of game with no progression.

Every MMORPG is a "level" based game, even Eve. Eve's is based on time spent  learning skills, but it still equates to "levels". New pilots in eve can't fly battlecruisers on day 1.

You all lack imagination.  ALL OF YOU!

 

A vigorous PvP unrestricted environment could happen, without ganking, without grinding, without all the other nonsense that plagues othergames, but you all lack imagination to do it.  You are all stuck on the old Everquest model and you will never get out of it.

 

What you describe has already been done. It was called Planetside. I don't want JGE to become that. I want it to be a game where you earn things and feel a sense of accomplishment, not a game where you log in, pick out whatever you want to fly, get blown up, and shrug and walk away. The driving force behind MMO's is the sense of accomplishment and fear of losing that accomplishment. Without an emotional investment, there's no excitement. No fun. And don't bother singing the merits of beating other players; only insecure people need that kind of stimulation.

 

Planetside for me was perfect. It takes Battlefield , makes it bigger, more diversity and toss it into a World.

Obviously you are not much of a FPS fan and thats fine, but the great thing i loved about planetside was it was a WAR. A World with a set of rules and how things work and you can do w/e you want abiding by these loose rules. What i enjoyed the most was you have a large group of friends and make assaults ect. And the fights where always different due to how it started where it is what people had ect. Keep in mind it wasnt a RPG it was a MMOFPS with RPG elements. You where a soldier not a HERO.

I don't really get what you're all arguing about. JG and JGE will both be skill based -you get better by actually being better at controling your ship, outmaneuvering your opponent, aiming etc..

There are however levels in the game, but they serve more for there to be some kind progress in what you're doing.The levels don't actually grant you any extra powers, only, in the start, access to better equipment, after that it's mostly just different styles of battle e.g. medium -heavy fighters, but not exactly better -you get better by training.

Originally posted by GoBBels

I don't really get what you're all arguing about. JG and JGE will both be skill based -you get better by actually being better at controling your ship, outmaneuvering your opponent, aiming etc..

 

To what end?

There are however levels in the game, but they serve more for there to be some kind progress in what you're doing.The levels don't actually grant you any extra powers, only, in the start, access to better equipment, after that it's mostly just different styles of battle e.g. medium -heavy fighters, but not exactly better -you get better by training.

Ehh, to the definitive end...?   In JGC you only got "better" equipment till level 20 or so, there on it was just more options regarding equipment and ships... And it'l be somewhat the same in JGE.

And even though it is "better" equipment/ships above level ~20, some sometimes still choose to use the early ships, because they perhaps have an edge in mass that the later ships lack...

Originally posted by GoBBels

Ehh, to the definitive end...?   In JGC you only got "better" equipment till level 20 or so, there on it was just more options regarding equipment and ships... And it'l be somewhat the same in JGE.

And even though it is "better" equipment/ships above level ~20, some sometimes still choose to use the early ships, because they perhaps have an edge in mass that the later ships lack...

Enough with the B.S. we all know that isn't true, it isn't "more options" it is "uber gear".  You grind for your "uber gear" like in every other game, why deny reality?

So like in every other game where there is PvP, you grind for your "uber gear" so you can "gank the lowbies."   That is the endgame.

What the hell are you talking about?! It IS like that.

 Why do you bash a game when you know nothing about it and won't listen to those that actually know something about it?

Just try the old one damnit...

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by Mrxknown

 

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Then please enlighten us and ALL the developers in the MMO market. What should they do?

 

---

 

-No Insurance for your ship

-Make it so it takes about a half an hour of manually mining to get a good fighter, a couple hours for a capital ship, about a day for heavy starbases.

-Allow players to hire NPC automatic miners, or some sort of mining structure, a risky investment.

-No PvP zones, nothing is invulnerable, everything is destructable, no instancing, full looting.

-fuel costs fuel that was actually mined, missles that were actually produced  by players, and equipment wear out.

-All Player made equipment like in SWG, no computer made equipment.

-Player structures where players store items, or build factories.

 

 

Now each faction can war against another, each faction providing mutual defense for each other.  Since it doesn't take forever to grind for your gear players will have more time to fight each other and it won't be such a big deal if they lose equipment.

In every game I played, all of the reballancing rules, all the PvP zones, all the invulnerabilities, nerfings and buffings and buffings and nerfings boil down to one thing; it takes forever to grind for your gear.

With the exception of WWIIONLINE and PLANETSIDE every game on the list to the left follows the same old worn out formula:  heavy grinding, no risk.  No risk because there is heavy grinding, heavy grinding because there is no risk, both principles feed back on each other.

Yeah, lets make a game like this and have 12 people play it...

No thanks. The reason there isn't a game like the one you want is because there is no money in it. The people in the MMO Genre want very specific game mechanics, Games bereft of these mechanics fail miserably. Why isn't FPS more than FPS? Simple, No one would play that game. FPSers wouldn't nor would RPGs, e.g. Tabula Rasa.

P.S. before you jump off and rail on me for saying "no one" I mean "statistically" no one , being of such a small percentage of the population as to be insignificant.

I won't even go into the fact that we as humans only play games BECAUSE they have rules and guide lines, without which what the hell would be the point of playing.

Having played E&B,JGC(lev 50) and EVE(the ultimate grind/wait MMO after 5years,ex beta) I can say that I prefer the way JGC is done and I hope JGE will be too . In JGC yes it took some time to advance to unlock better/more advanced ships but there were many ways of doing that.

The economy in JGC above a certain number of online players reflects supply and demand in manufacturing equipment(ie if there are x number of players online and no one hauls resources equipment does not get made and supply dries up)

In JGE I am told that levels will unlock areas of the game,1-10 being noob territory(hopefully off limits to more advanced players)

To build a playerbase(cash flow,duh)you must have a means to allow and protect non-hard core players who have never played a game of this type,otherwise they get frustrated and leave, remember if the game does not make cash it will be abandoned

So you can do it like EVE train for monthes to get a skill which lets you use or buy certain equipment or you can use a leveling system which unlocks choices but does not take the place of flying skill,I prefer the latter.

retlaw2009

Nerf09.. you're being annoying as fuck.. if you don't like the game just don't talk about it. nugh said.

BLAH BLAH BLAH.... JGE is gonna rule! If you think other wise than your just a fool.

Try another twitch mmo and see if you don't get hooked like go play a good class in spellborn. It is free for 9 lvls and twitch makes the difference to me.

Now if a lame fantasy mmo like spellborn is made more fun with twitch then flying a ship in JGE is gonna be bloody sweet!

Now come play spellborn so I gank you in a war you cry babies! :)

Originally posted by roheryn

If you can learn to fly a ship using Ju,pgates physics model in 2 hours you are about 3-6 months faster than most.

It took me two years of playing, (The original Jumpgate game) to finally become a decent combat pilot.

While you do attain levels in order to access different ships and better gear and such. Even at max level I regularly still flow in a light fighter (only required level 9 to get). THey have decided that more levels = more options....but not necessarily better options.

Yeah I have messed around in JG Classic and consider myself decent at Flight Sims.  You would probably get to the choice ships far before you are actually a very good pilot.  Not that I am an expert at flying in JGC.

I have no idea whether that will be true in JGE or whether the ship choice will have the tradeoffs.  Being reallly high level does not give you a super awesome ship just access to certain types of ships like a large mining ship.  If you want to fight well in JGC reaching mid levels of about 25 will give you a perfectly fine ship.  Some people even PvPed in the starter ships once they got good.

I got to level 9 on the free trial in a matter of days btw.  And getting to a medium fighter was not too long at all.

If JGE keeps similar tradeoffs, namely maneuverability vs number of guns/size.  Then it should be fine.  Although of course in order to take advantage of the maneuverability of the starter ships you need to be good at flying which is a bit of a paradox.

Originally posted by gestalt11 

 If JGE keeps similar tradeoffs, namely maneuverability vs number of guns/size.  Then it should be fine.  Although of course in order to take advantage of the maneuverability of the starter ships you need to be good at flying which is a bit of a paradox.

For what it's worth, it seems that they have. A recent interview with Scott "Scorch" Brown saw him describing the emerging behaviour in F&F testers flying "lights" and "heavies" (placeholder names?) in one of the Battlespace scenarios. Testers in lights would take advantage of improved maneuverability to try and drop in on the six of the heavies (also, I guess, avoiding the barrage of gunfire from the heavies). To counter this, in the indoor scenario heavy pilots would start hugging walls and using terrain to their advantage. Definitely one to look forward to trying out when beta hits.

My dream- Earth and Beyond + Planetside = Jumpgate, which then in turn would = me + 100lbs - employment, friends, & sunlight...  Part of me longs for this, that is the sickening part

To call JGE a cookie cutter mmo is just ridiculous. For on thing Yeah you can get equipment like in any other mmo but unlike others you actually have to be able to hit moving objects in FPS style combat unlike other mmos where you equip the item and you tab target a mob and pew pew .

Gear don't mean anyhting if you can't actually hit target. Skill over gear IMO in this game.

Originally posted by nratnam

To call JGE a cookie cutter mmo is just ridiculous. For on thing Yeah you can get equipment like in any other mmo but unlike others you actually have to be able to hit moving objects in FPS style combat unlike other mmos where you equip the item and you tab target a mob and pew pew .

Gear don't mean anyhting if you can't actually hit target. Skill over gear IMO in this game.

I agree, but still I can see a good player with a better ship/equipment, being able to beat a better player, because the better ship/equipment will offset skill to a point.

Basically I can see times in this game where gear>skill will happen, in a limited sense.

Originally posted by lornphoenix

Originally posted by nratnam

To call JGE a cookie cutter mmo is just ridiculous. For on thing Yeah you can get equipment like in any other mmo but unlike others you actually have to be able to hit moving objects in FPS style combat unlike other mmos where you equip the item and you tab target a mob and pew pew .

Gear don't mean anyhting if you can't actually hit target. Skill over gear IMO in this game.

I agree, but still I can see a good player with a better ship/equipment, being able to beat a better player, because the better ship/equipment will offset skill to a point.

Basically I can see times in this game where gear>skill will happen, in a limited sense.

I totally agree with you. As with everything a little luck is involved as well when the lower skilled player gets off a barrage at the right time and the higher skilled player happens to run in its path.

question should be.. Will this game EVER turn out?   lol