I always used to hate it when people jumped in threads they hadn't followed, but I just have to with this thread.  All I have to say is, the OP does not fully grasp the concept of EVE pvp.

You dont need uber skills to pvp.

xbps.org/kb/

I have to disagree. Why? First of all you don't go solo PvPing in this game, even if you do, you can get pwned by newbie characters even if you have over 2 year of playtime, cause skills aren't the most important thing in EVE and PvP.

When you see a fleet of frigates taking down a battleship, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by urgo

In what game a noob player can kill a 3 year old player?Wanna kill?Kill another noob.Wanna kill someone older?Be smart.Play your cards right,join some friends,choose your fights.Eve rewards teamwork.I only have one advice to anyone who is willing to try the game.By the moment u hit the log in button,forget everything u knew about the other games.Its a whole new diferent world you are entering.If you want ta play something similiar to your previews game,just dont bother.If you want to play something new and unique,adapt to the game mechanics,learn the game and have FUN!I do!

His point isn't that noob players don't know the mechanics of the game, and thus lose in PvP to the veterans.  His point is that skills in EVE train in real time, so in order to have a crapload of skills which facilitate PvP excellence you have to spend incredible amounts of real time letting them build up.  This immediately excludes new players from installing the game and joining the PvP action in a meaningful and useful way.  (unless of course they PvP against other noobs)

In other MMOs players merely have to level their characters and grind some gear to get there, a process which as we all know can take mere days.

Originally posted by Sarcazmo

Originally posted by urgo

In what game a noob player can kill a 3 year old player?Wanna kill?Kill another noob.Wanna kill someone older?Be smart.Play your cards right,join some friends,choose your fights.Eve rewards teamwork.I only have one advice to anyone who is willing to try the game.By the moment u hit the log in button,forget everything u knew about the other games.Its a whole new diferent world you are entering.If you want ta play something similiar to your previews game,just dont bother.If you want to play something new and unique,adapt to the game mechanics,learn the game and have FUN!I do!

 

His point isn't that noob players don't know the mechanics of the game, and thus lose in PvP to the veterans.  His point is that skills in EVE train in real time, so in order to have a crapload of skills which facilitate PvP excellence you have to spend incredible amounts of real time letting them build up.  This immediately excludes new players from installing the game and joining the PvP action in a meaningful and useful way.  (unless of course they PvP against other noobs)

In other MMOs players merely have to level their characters and grind some gear to get there, a process which as we all know can take mere days.

Actually the point he was making was that you can NEVER compete which is untrue as you can compete either as part of an ambushing squad or by spending time learning the skills needed to fight a experienced PvP person on a more or less level playing field.

OP: one word. teamwork. everything you said is appropriate for solo pvping, but if you gathered 5-10 others, i don't care if they've been playing for 10 years and have 90 million points, you'll probably win that fight.

Originally posted by charris1980

OP: one word. teamwork. everything you said is appropriate for solo pvping, but if you gathered 5-10 others, i don't care if they've been playing for 10 years and have 90 million points, you'll probably win that fight.

not even that. a 90 million sp player may not be pvp trained, or may be caught unaware on a weak ship or with a npc fitting. on those cases, even a single noob can win a 1vs1 fight.

wow

Ok can we stop feeding the troll now?  Please?

Originally posted by Taram

wow

Ok can we stop feeding the troll now?  Please?

yeah i agree i pvp myself bye poding my own ship with c4 there done end of troll

Originally posted by Xennith

 

Originally posted by jimmyman99

How can someone with 100K skill points (player A) have a chance vs someone with 10mil points (player B) when player B has better ship, better weapons, better electronics, better items?

I mean player A does have a chance to kill player B, but only if player B is retarded or AFK.

 

... so in wow, my level 1 guy cant kill a level 70 guy with the best armour and weapons in the game?

 

that game sucks.

 

you actually can in eve, lets say that your player b is flying a vagabond (as everyone does these days) and your player a is flying a neuting, cap injected heavy missile blackbird with a web and point. (its a lolfit, but lets just think about it)... who would win?

 

im not sure, it comes down to player skill. now if player a had a mate in a thorax... its all going the newbies way.

Your point is a bit off because in Eve, your skills increase with time. They never stop. In WoW, you may not be equal to a level 70, but he cant level beyond that. So with time, you will catch up with him.  In Eve the difference will be less and less with time. But if I do join 1 year after you did, I will always be 1 year behind (in skill points), unless you stop paying for the game of course. I may be able to compete, but I will never be equal to that person ahead of me.

To other people who are afraid of  noobs flying frigs. Guys, a noob of 2 month will NOT know even 1/10th of what you know. His frig may be deadly vs your ship, but he wouldn't know how to do it. I played Eve (in total) about 3-4 months, and I still haven't figured out how to work with web. I didnt have a corp, I didnt have a friend with 5 years of experience to hold my hand and explain all the tricks. I spent most of my time experimenting  on rats. In 2 months, a noob will not figure out how to kill off a veteran. I never tried to engage anyone in PvP because:

a) I didnt know how to PvP well enough to risk loss of my ship;
b) I didnt have a corp behind me, I couldnt risk becoming a fugitive with a bounty on my head and half the galaxy hunting me down;
c) I dont know all the ships, all the items, what ship counters what, what item counters what. I wasn confident that I could kill my enemy, or at least get away with my ship intact if I fail. I could not risk my ship because one mistake will force me to spend days or even weeks recovering financially.

The only low level SP person who stands a chance to win against a high level SPer is

a) a veteran who created a new character, or
b) a new player who had extensive training from experienced players and financial support to recover his loss

So no, a real noob will stand no chance against a veteran. The learning curve is just way too steep for it to be true.

Keep telling yourself that Jimmy.  I'll keep enjoying the game with my 2 characters newbie on 2 accounts. 

IMO, finding a place to thrive in EVE is much more about knowing what you want and going for it than it is about having as much SP as the next player. 

I've found many places to apply the limited SP I possess that are fun for me.  As I gain more SP the number of things I can do adequately increase, adding to the fun of the game.

I feel that many people look at the ships in EVE in a way that is detrimental.  Many see their ships as possessions that no one has a right to take from them.  I see them as tools to accomplish goals.  As long as the tools last longer than it takes to recoup the investment I made in them then I am always gaining in wealth, which means I am gaining in power.

If I am losing ships to the point where I am losing money, then I need to figure out how to do things diffently and revers the trend.

Originally posted by free2kill

 

Originally posted by ENTR0PY

You are full of shit. I've been playing this game for about 4 years and have beat people that are at least a year older than me.

If I'm in a frigate and some 5 month old character is in a battlecruiser there's 99.9% chance I'll die if webs and scrambles me.

And anyway this game is about teamwork. I've been PvPing with the same guys in my corp for years and we've taken on odds 10to1 easily.

Sure most of the time we destroy our foes but it's just because we have the experience not the SP.

Go play wow noob.

why do people always say go play wow noob.....or something to that effect.....is that ment to be insulting that someone may like to play wow......im no wow fanboy.....matter of fact i even hate the bloody game.....so my only answer to this is go play EVE NOOB...!! did you find yourself insulted by that remark? maybe not may even had a giggle at it......but i am almost certain that people do the same thing when you make stupid comments of go play wow noob.....

 

it's not just in eve that people say gbtw.

and it's been coined for excellent reasons.

so um, gbtw.

Originally posted by Xennith

 

Originally posted by jimmyman99

How can someone with 100K skill points (player A) have a chance vs someone with 10mil points (player B) when player B has better ship, better weapons, better electronics, better items?

I mean player A does have a chance to kill player B, but only if player B is retarded or AFK.

 

... so in wow, my level 1 guy cant kill a level 70 guy with the best armour and weapons in the game?

 

that game sucks.

 

you actually can in eve, lets say that your player b is flying a vagabond (as everyone does these days) and your player a is flying a neuting, cap injected heavy missile blackbird with a web and point. (its a lolfit, but lets just think about it)... who would win?

 

im not sure, it comes down to player skill. now if player a had a mate in a thorax... its all going the newbies way.

that really isn't a good comparison.  lvl 1 vs lvl 70 does not mean what you think it means.  not in any world.

Originally posted by kishe

You do realise that even the player who has been there for two years only uses about 2-3 million skillpoints at a time?

 

 

maybe, if they're flying a frigate.

now, if we're talking about heat, which we should be, for all the bonuses, you have the below three skills, no matter what you're flying.

1 thermodynamics (512,000 sp required just to obtain) - prereq - science lvl 5 - 256k sp, energy management lvl 5 (which requires engineering lvl 5 - 256k sp)

2 nanite operation (256,000 sp prereq) - mechanic lvl 5 - 256k sp

3 nanite interfacing (+24k sp) - mechanic lvl 5 + nanite operation lvl 3 - 24k sp

now, are you flying something with rig slots?  are we talking t1 rigs or t2 rigs?  t2 rigs require lvl 4 of the appropriate rigging skill in order to use.  those are rank 3 skills, so you're looking at about 135k sp for each rigging skill you'll need for the t2 rigs you want.

defenses?  each armor and shield compensation is 90k - lvl 4, or 512k lvl 5,  4 types - EM, explosive, kinetic, thermic.  plus things like hull upgrades, shield operation, shield management.  we're looking at a couple of million just for shield tanking or armor tanking.

there's a lot of engineering/electronics skills that can give you an advantage no matter what ship you're flying.  add up to a few million here no matter your ship.

navigation?  there's easily a few million SP here that will be used no matter what ship you're flying, even moreso if you've got an mwd or ab.

say you're in something that only uses small turrets, sure, that's only 256k to get a rank 1 gun skill to level 5, which then unlocks a couple of specialties (rank 3s, which will max at 768k sp); but, you also have weapon upgrades, advanced weapon upgrades, controlled bursts, gunnery, motion prediction, rapid firing, sharp shooter, surgical strike, trajectory analysis -- 9 gunnery support skills.  now, if i have all of those to level 5, and someone else has them at level 0 thru 3...   at any rate, if i'm in a frig shooting guns, i'm using all of those skills JUST shooting my pew pew.  the support skills go up to rank 6.

that's using just guns as an example,  similar examples can be made for both missiles and drones.  if you're flying a frig that uses a combination of attacks, you're using all the support skills associated with said attacks, along with the one or two skills which affect only the weapon you're currently using.

so, if you just died and docked and you're in a rookie ship, i can see how you may only be using several million sp in it; but, even in a frig, you're using a lot more SP (if you have them)... this isn't including *advanced* skills like cloaking.

that's a lot of SP, usable in any ship in which you fly.

FINALLY, someone who tells the truth.

Originally posted by Eschiava

Keep telling yourself that Jimmy.  I'll keep enjoying the game with my 2 characters newbie on 2 accounts. 

IMO, finding a place to thrive in EVE is much more about knowing what you want and going for it than it is about having as much SP as the next player. 

I've found many places to apply the limited SP I possess that are fun for me.  As I gain more SP the number of things I can do adequately increase, adding to the fun of the game.

I feel that many people look at the ships in EVE in a way that is detrimental.  Many see their ships as possessions that no one has a right to take from them.  I see them as tools to accomplish goals.  As long as the tools last longer than it takes to recoup the investment I made in them then I am always gaining in wealth, which means I am gaining in power.

If I am losing ships to the point where I am losing money, then I need to figure out how to do things diffently and revers the trend.

good way to think about the game.

eve can be a total solo or a total team sport.  it really depends on if you want to conquer the world, or just have fun on your own terms.

you can be COMPETITIVE, but you can never catch up to older players.  there's just too many new skills and too many skills that can be used on most any ship.  eventually, you would be able to have the same skills; but there's always another skill... for example, in my previous post, i didn't mention cybernetics.  you need level 5 there to get the most out of training and buffs.  learning skills are 5.376 MILLION to max out.

lots of people skimp on charisma in training.  that's fine, if you aren't planning on taking leaderships to a high level...

 People that say that you cannot catch up to another player with more SP are people who have not played eve,they look as statistics like they would look at armor in WoW,zomg he has tier 6 and I have some crappy blues,I wont beat him.

 Well the thing in eve is that time actualy spent hunting/pvping (gaining combat experience,like in RL,knowing what ships and what setups are best) beats the time youve spent training for skills.

Exemple mr. SPrulz,has not being playing much,but he wants to fly a vagabond,he never flew a stabber ,he then finaly manages to train for one,gets into one ... and what do you know,he puts a crap fit on it and goes into low sec,incidently mr. Ihavebeingpvpingforawhile is in the same system as SPrulz flying a drake ,SPrulz not knowing that passive drake will never flinch against burst DPS rushes in at 10km (getting into web range),dies and then goes to the forum and whines how the guy with 4mil SP beat him ,when he invested 12mil SP.

it is important to listen to what jimmy says. he played eve for 3 months and didnt pvp. so we should take his opinion as gospel truth.

Originally posted by demolishIX

 People that say that you cannot catch up to another player with more SP are people who have not played eve,they look as statistics like they would look at armor in WoW,zomg he has tier 6 and I have some crappy blues,I wont beat him.

 Well the thing in eve is that time actualy spent hunting/pvping (gaining combat experience,like in RL,knowing what ships and what setups are best) beats the time youve spent training for skills.

Exemple mr. SPrulz,has not being playing much,but he wants to fly a vagabond,he never flew a stabber ,he then finaly manages to train for one,gets into one ... and what do you know,he puts a crap fit on it and goes into low sec,incidently mr. Ihavebeingpvpingforawhile is in the same system as SPrulz flying a drake ,SPrulz not knowing that passive drake will never flinch against burst DPS rushes in at 10km (getting into web range),dies and then goes to the forum and whines how the guy with 4mil SP beat him ,when he invested 12mil SP.

you're correct, an inexperienced pvper WILL lose to an experienced pvper.  don't think there's a big surprise there.

that does not in any fashion mean that someone who is a pvper and has 15m SP in use, no matter WHAT ship they fly (the ones i listed in the above two posts - combat oriented along with cybernetics), will lose to someone who is a new pvper and just has a couple of million sp.

now, in a swarm vs one, odds are the one will lose, period.  but we're not talking about that in this thread.

Just read the initial post. What a load of... PVP in EVE is not for solo mongrels any more. Solo flyers die to 3 random ships most of the time anyway (yeah, yeah there are ubers that can solo 3 shuttles every now and then, I know). If you want to expirience EVE you need to join a corp and then get your avatar into 0.0 space and join fleets. Like in rl armies, all ships in a fleet serve a purpose and should have a defined role (if they don't then they are in the wrong place). And yo ucan fill one of those roles in just a month. Train EW (blackbird) or train logistic t1 cruiser (osprey, exqueror) and be usefull. Yes you will not be able to solo 20 battleships but you will help your fleet to win 50vs50 fight if you do your thing right.

EVE has a steep learning curve but once you got it it's yours to stay forever. And if your ego suffers from lack of skillpoints on your char you can always make isk and buy one of the chars someone trained for 2 years. EVE economy offers unlimited profitable opportunities. You can make billions in few months and save 2 years of training.

So don't spread lies about EVE. It's not for everyone. If you prefer hack and slash or some endless grind wow type games then you will hate EVE.