I am having an arguement with a dev about why people like to beat the snot out of each other in games. I say They do it because it is fun and challenging, but the Dev says they do it because of loot. Though in most games I have ever played I didn't get anything other than the satisfaction of beating them down like the dog who stole the TV guide, and that was the whole purpose of me doing it in the first place. The dev is still trying to tell me that the reason players fight is because they only want loot. So.. what do you think do people fight for the challenge and fun of the actual combat or do they do it simply for rewards? Sure rewards are frosting on the cake, but we still kill each other whether or not there are any rewards because it is fun!

I enjoy the challenge of facing off against another human as opposed to simply trying to perfect the "boss dance" to take down a raid boss.  Raid bosses are okay opponents, but I prefer the thrill of taking down real people.  Hell, not having to loot other players in PvP is great, saves me the time clicking piles of garbage on the ground.     Plus, I don't mind being content for someone else.  ;-)

I think you're both right. People who enjoy PvP enjoy the challenge of fighting other human opponents. (In the main; there's other reasons people like PvP, but that's the biggie.) However, most people view activities that don't have rewards as a waste of time, at least in MMOs. If there wasn't some reward for PvP a lot of people wouldn't bother.

PvP > all

Discerning the particular reasons for each player's love/hate for PvP is, I think, impossible. It's a little bit of everything, from wanting to loot, to challenge, to avenging the dishonor of your ancestors, or whatever.

most games dont have pvp where you can take people loot so it cant be that so the dev is wrong and you are right

I <3 shiny happy people holding hands!

But seriously, I want risk.  Without risk, there is not really a reward.  I believe that you must have a reward to put in risk.  I don't enjoy PvP without the risk of a bad consequence happening if I lose.

For instance, if I am going to get into a battle with my opponent, I want there to be risk.  I want to think before  my actions, I need to use my potions/food wisely.   I realize that if I plan to get into a battle, I should get a group first to assist me.

You see, this is why I am a fan of loot.  I don't enjoy just running into a battle, dying, and repeat.  If I am dead, there goes my hard earned items.

You NEED loot to add in risk- and risk is what I enjoy in PvP.

I fight for the risk and adventure- the loot is a bonus.  No loot will replace the great time I had in the wilderness with my group and I, battling people 30 levels higher.  If I didn't get any loot, it wasn't really taht big of a deal, since I still had a great time in the battle.

To sum it up-  You need loot to add in risk.  If there is no risk, I don't find it ineteresting.

So I do fight just for the enjoyment of it.  I could care less about the loot, but I need risk.

I beileve I am one of those happy people holding hands...

It's funny, but I seem to play alone a lot im MMOs these days.  I recall playing UO and getting killed a lot and thats part of why I left the game.  If I am going to play with other people I prefer to work together with them then to fight against them.  PvPers always seemed very rude and violent people to me.  Not all of them, but most of them.  It drives me away from playing on PvP servers.  Maybe that means I don't want a real challenge, but I prefer the Devs to challenge me then to fight against the hordes of rude gankers that always seem to spring up.

Fun and challenge, but then again, most MMO these days are all about gears and loot.   In most game today, winning a pvp fight is more about the gears then anything else.

Originally posted by Flyte27

I beileve I am one of those happy people holding hands...

It's funny, but I seem to play alone a lot im MMOs these days.  I recall playing UO and getting killed a lot and thats part of why I left the game.  If I am going to play with other people I prefer to work together with them then to fight against them. 

That's why you work together to kill others...that's half he enjoyment right there...working as a team to battle another group of players.

Originally posted by mike470

Originally posted by Flyte27

I beileve I am one of those happy people holding hands...

It's funny, but I seem to play alone a lot im MMOs these days.  I recall playing UO and getting killed a lot and thats part of why I left the game.  If I am going to play with other people I prefer to work together with them then to fight against them. 

 

That's why you work together to kill others...that's half he enjoyment right there...working as a team to battle another group of players.

Perhaps though I don't find much enjoyment out of it.  The people are usually very rude and put me in a bad mood which is not the reason I'm playing the game.  Some people enjoy this trash talking and making fun of people they just killed, or tormenting people in game constantly, but it just makes me angry.  Besides who wants to be forced into grouping with PKers or Anti PKers?  I thought the whole point of a sandbox is the freedom to do what you want to do.

Only game i have ever liked pvp in was DAoC. I like pvp with a purpose.  I also don't see the need to loot other players.

I PvP only when there is a purpose to it.  I never went out and decided that today I was going to kill people just because they were there.  Most of the games I've played have had a good reason for the player versus player engagements.  There were usually rewards for the winers but never in a loot kind of way.  Rather it was with some sort of spendable points or experience or just an overall benefit to the side you're fighting for.  That way there was a sense of accomplishment and community when the whole realm bands together for a greater cause.  Makes all the petty squabbling disappear for a while.

I PvP because of the challenge. In the PvE experience, there is nearly zero challenge. Loot is icing on the cake, but it is not the main reason why I PvP. I also would rather have purposeful PvP, rather than WoW's system. Never did play DAOC, but a system similar would be cool for me.. a reworked shadowbane, perhaps.

Blessings,

Originally posted by Illius

I PvP only when there is a purpose to it.  I never went out and decided that today I was going to kill people just because they were there.  Most of the games I've played have had a good reason for the player versus player engagements.  There were usually rewards for the winers but never in a loot kind of way. 

Amending my first post a bit: I don't think people specifically want "loot", but a more general "reward." (Loot could be that reward, of course.) Simply toting away fond memories of winning won't hack it in the long term for PvP play; you need titles, badges, a bonus for your side, l33t g33r, XP... some sort of reward to keep most of your players engaged.

Right, in other words, a purpose of the PvP. A game that is made with mechanics to support PvP will not be successful unless the PvP is purposeful. Now, its that definition that people will debate. For some, its the sheer thrill, for others, it is owning that guild castle that gets attacked every week, for others it is the loot of the person who was defeated.

Blessings,

Im not much of a crafter so if your dressed to kill im aimin for the gills <- oh shnap lvl 99 in rhymes

I am not saying there is no need for rewards, I am talking about the primary reason you would want to walk up and smack another player. It is because it is fun and challenging and the most rewarding part of the expierance is the fight itself rather than any pixel junk that you could possibly get from doing so. 

The dev is trying to tell me the only reason people do pvp at all is because of the in game rewards, and I strongly disagree since I have been playing PVP games my entire life because it is fun whether or not there is a reward, or a death penalty in a game I am still going to walk up and smack someone the first chance I get because that is the best part about it. 

When you hit NPC's it just isn't the same, they become predictable and boring and I would feel like an idiot for speaking to one. I talk to the players I am fighting when I am fighting them so that whole part of it would be completely lost.

This dev actually told me I was lying to myself for thinking that I like to do it becuase it is challenging and fun! Madness I tell you madness!  I say the fun and challenge of the fight itself is the cake and the rewards are the frosting, but I would still want to eat my cake even if it didn't have frosting.

I pvp to win...( i dont want mini pvp games either )

If you cant lose you cant win... (example kill a dude in wow , he comes back and back and back)

The primary reason why you play PvE is usually for the loot/gear you can acquire there; which is why I dislike it. I don't play a MMO because I enjoy spending 8 hours per day grinding the same mobs while dreaming about that epic cape I can finally get some day next year - I enjoy it because it's challenging. PvP is my favorite aspect because it provides a big challenge and is not as predictable as PvE; in PvE you know beforehand what you'll face of against in PvP on the other hand you must be prepared for everything - and know what to do against everything, otherwise you lose.

I play PvP daily in Guild Wars and I don't do that because I can acquire gear in some way - because I can't. The closest thing I can get is a title, and that I only want because it then becomes easier for me to find groups. As (pretty much) everyone else seems to agree on: you play PvP because it's fun and challening - not for the loot.