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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » ----------->What ever happaned to Sandbox MMO's?

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219 posts found
  SundersGhost

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 226

6/17/08 8:33:03 PM#101

Without reading all of the bantering back and forth, sorry all, I will answer the question posed by the title of the thread.  What happened to Sandbox MMOs?  Same thing that happens with so many Sandboxes in the world.  Some unknown stray mutts come along and defecate in the sandbox until all the kiddies decide it is not much of a sandbox, and more of a shitbox, and thusly no longer worth playing in.  Even if a new sandbox is built, learning from the past, there is an innate fear or worry that it too will in short time be made into nothing beyond a neighborhood crapper also :)

 

  vajuras

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/06
Posts: 2857

6/17/08 8:54:20 PM#102
Originally posted by Finwolven
Originally posted by Ozmodan

Some of you do not understand the world of MMO's that is for sure.

If the game has classes, it is NOT a sandbox.  A sandbox means you can define your character as you like which is impossible when classes are present.

Doom3 is not even a MMO, it is a FPS, if you can't understand the difference what are you doing on this site?


 

Um, having classes does not by any means restrict the world from being a sandbox. Granted, most MMO's that try the sandbox way are classless, skill-based systems, but freedom to define your character without restrictions is only a part of being a true sandbox MMO.

IMO 'sandbox'-style refers to a persistant world where you can interact with most things in a logical manner, and you are not forced to particular paths for your advancement. A game where I can, if I like, stop adventuring and doing quests and instead just, say, craft items and trade them and still play a meaningful game, is very far towards the sandbox end of the scale.

Also, the freedom to choose your path and goals sets sandboxes apart from 'linear' MMO's. My goal may not be to advance to 'end-game' content and to raid and PVP, and if the game doesn't push me towards that path, then IMO it's well on its way to being a sandbox.

 

A big part of a sandbox is being able to pursue your path like you just said. IF I am forced to select a Class when I enter the world- most likely that game is not a sandbox. However, if I am dynamically creating a Class, then the game can possibly be called a sandbox.

In sandbox games you have the freedom to be a pure Crafter if you desire and not be forced to kill mobs or anything. That's one example

  tvalentine

Novice Member

Joined: 4/01/06
Posts: 4234

“The things you own end up owning you.” -Tyler Durden

6/17/08 10:37:13 PM#103

this thread makes me want to vomit..... The WoW hate came into play when somebody said WoW was something it is not, it wasnt like everyone just started saying WoW sucks ....... And alot of people's reactions to a ignorant person like Zorndof, is to attack the game he plays and you can see alot of in this thread. If you cleaned this post up and kept the posts that didnt involve sandbox/WoW hate, you would find every aspect of a Sandbox, it has been explained 100 times in this thread, and if you cant seem to READ or UNDERSTAND what is being said, then you shouldnt even be on this forum. It's been spelled out dozens of times, and if you havent even played a game like SWG (pre-cu) or UO, then im sorry but you dont have a real grasp of what a sandbox type game is.

Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -

  Mahni

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/08
Posts: 68

6/18/08 2:55:00 AM#104

Thread seems simple enough...

Sandbox, as defined by this thread:

  1. All the kids have to play in the same sandbox
  2. Kids go anywhere they like within the sandbox
  3. Kids can move or shape the sand (or throw it, make it into mud, etc.)
  4. There are a large set of toys that the parents have put in the sandbox
  5. Each kid gets the same set of toys (shovels, buckets, etc.) in the sandbox - they do not have to make an initial choice of what toys they will use, and they can change at any time
  6. Each kid can use the toys in any way they choose - they do not have to use one toy in order to earn the right to use another toy
  7. The toys work in the same way for every kid - Billy doesn't really have an epic toy of shoveling + 2
  8. Kids can make deals with other kids - through trades (I'll sell you this sandcastle I built!) or by social interactions (let's agree to work together to build this sandcastle that we can both enjoy!)
  9. Kids can beat up other kids and take any candy they might have (their parents do not care)
  10. The sandbox does not clean itself

Why there are no more sandboxes, as defined by this thread:

  1. Kids nowadays are going to Disneyworld
  2. Kids nowadays can't tell the difference between a sandbox and Disneyworld so they are lured away by the costumed characters and the sounds of other kids having fun
  3. The sandboxes weren't making enough money to compete with Disneyworld
  4. After kids "cut their teeth" at Disneyworld, maybe they will start to appreciate / look for a nice old sandbox
  5. It takes a special person to make a sandbox, parents nowadays aren't smart / creative enough
  6. It takes a special kid to play in a sandbox, kids nowadays aren't smart / creative enough
  7. They just don't make sandboxes like they used to (ah, the good old days!)
  8. The kids started crying about being beat up in the sandboxes, or the bullies ruin it for everyone
  9. The kids started whining about making the toys easier to use and ruined it for everyone
  10. The kids grew up and became more interested in the real world (opposite sex, job, money) so they don't have time for sandboxes
  11. There is a secret sandbox but its only for the smart and / or cool kids

 

  Avos

Novice Member

Joined: 1/23/08
Posts: 80

6/18/08 3:17:42 AM#105

/Agree

However, there really is no need to hate on WoW or the kids who play it.  It servers a purpose and to be honest if people can stay charmed by a game with such little depth and complexity for so long, I don't want them in my gaming community anyway, other than to grief on.

I played UO and Pre-CU SWG.  That's my type of game.  I remember when Pre-CU SWG launched and we were finally able to log on the 2nd day it was really as if hundreds of thousands of people were just dropped on these planets, left at the mercy of their own resourcefullness.

We had no money, no decent weapons, nothing.  Survival was tough.  Before they had mounts or vehicles I used to have to run to my harvestors to collect minerals for 15 - 20 real-time minutes and it was a dangerous task.  You had to dodge NPC spawns along the way that could kill you at any given moment.  I haven't had that sort of thrill in an MMO since. 

Everything is spoonfed now, instanced.  Your path is planned for you.  Unless you have played this type of game you really don't know what "sandbox" means.

  vajuras

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/06
Posts: 2857

6/18/08 4:03:48 AM#106
Originally posted by Zorndorf
Originally posted by Avos

/Agree

However, there really is no need to hate on WoW or the kids who play it.  It servers a purpose and to be honest if people can stay charmed by a game with such little depth and complexity for so long, I don't want them in my gaming community anyway, other than to grief on.

I played UO and Pre-CU SWG.  That's my type of game.  I remember when Pre-CU SWG launched and we were finally able to log on the 2nd day it was really as if hundreds of thousands of people were just dropped on these planets, left at the mercy of their own resourcefullness.

We had no money, no decent weapons, nothing.  Survival was tough.  Before they had mounts or vehicles I used to have to run to my harvestors to collect minerals for 15 - 20 real-time minutes and it was a dangerous task.  You had to dodge NPC spawns along the way that could kill you at any given moment.  I haven't had that sort of thrill in an MMO since. 

Everything is spoonfed now, instanced.  Your path is planned for you.  Unless you have played this type of game you really don't know what "sandbox" means.


 

Thank you for calling me a kid at the age of 52.

Problem is I have more years on gaming than all of you combined. :))

And I KNOW when I see a good game. Been playing computer games for 28 years now. From Trash 80 to Atari 800 (no it was NOT a console), Amiga, PC's, from Utima to Balder's Gate from DAoC to Wow, from LOTRO to Age of Loading. Not even talking of the wargaming years I had. From SPI, AH, pencil and paper DD to Warhammer miniatures.

World of Warcraft IS a sandbox game because:

1. My avatar is my sandbox I do LIVE with it in an ever changing world that I consider a sandbox.

The moment I MAKE my weapons and my helicopter and my steath device and I get potions and enchantments of other professions I CHANGE that world.

I Change it by ECONOMICS through the Auction House. The scopes I craft change the world  and makes players better. Just like all those other professions do. Hey there is that warrior who can make me a better saddle so I ride faster...

And Wow has about the best economics ANY MMORPG has.

2. My OPTIONS in its end game are completely free and anno 2008 Wow Raiding is just a tiny part of the game for LOTS of players.

3. I talked this over with my brother in that Gruul Raid we had last night. When we were doing arena's and later a few Battlegrounds, you know what he said ? If Wow was only about raiding he would have left it already a year ago.

4. Most of you all DO NOT have an idea of what Wow has become since patch 2.3. You only think at the "!" and "?" signs when doing basic leveling. I am talking the REAL play at level 70 and the HUGE number of playing styles you have at level 70.

5. Its prejudgement of third hand information like somebody said, those who played Wow 2 years ago while leveling to a level 60 and then quit.

And the elitism and frustration about WOW is understandable. Having 62% marketshare AND getting transformed into a sandbox game is not a good sign for its haters.

The only blinds ones here are the guys who just don't see the evolution.

---

Where were the auction houses in UO ???? The basis to have a REAL driven economy?

And what was the result again of that NEW game the UO designer brought in 2007? Tabula rasa .....

TBC anno 2008 is very MUCH a sandbox game. And WotLK will exploit it further.

Have a nice frustrated day.

 

 

You are still bound to a hard defined Class. Sorry, WoW breaks any decent sandbox definition you could probably find. The day I am not forced to pick a character the developer already made for me is the day WoW becomes one step closer to sandbox. Atm, it is holy grail of linear MMO from start to finish.

Can you even be a pure crafter in WoW?  Last I checked you had to go kill mobs. All those MMOs you listed sound like a very short list too me btw. I'm not impressed.

-edit my bad you do mention pen and paper which makes it all the more confusing why would you try to WoW is a sandbox but meh, I dont really care anyway.

  Talgen

Old School

Joined: 9/04/02
Posts: 410

This is just my opinion and should be viewed as just that, an opinion

6/18/08 4:10:19 AM#107

With all due respect,  it is a huge leap to call a game "sandbox" at the end of the game.  Sandbox games are generally understood as complete and utter freedom throughout the game, not just at level 70.  And some pureists would argue a sandbox game has no levels anyway.

  Forcan

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 702

Nov. 15th 2005
my heart died a little...
Long Live SWG(PreCU)

6/18/08 4:10:57 AM#108
Originally posted by Zorndorf
Originally posted by Avos

/Agree

However, there really is no need to hate on WoW or the kids who play it.  It servers a purpose and to be honest if people can stay charmed by a game with such little depth and complexity for so long, I don't want them in my gaming community anyway, other than to grief on.

I played UO and Pre-CU SWG.  That's my type of game.  I remember when Pre-CU SWG launched and we were finally able to log on the 2nd day it was really as if hundreds of thousands of people were just dropped on these planets, left at the mercy of their own resourcefullness.

We had no money, no decent weapons, nothing.  Survival was tough.  Before they had mounts or vehicles I used to have to run to my harvestors to collect minerals for 15 - 20 real-time minutes and it was a dangerous task.  You had to dodge NPC spawns along the way that could kill you at any given moment.  I haven't had that sort of thrill in an MMO since. 

Everything is spoonfed now, instanced.  Your path is planned for you.  Unless you have played this type of game you really don't know what "sandbox" means.


 

Thank you for calling me a kid at the age of 52.

Problem is I have more years on gaming than all of you combined. :))

And I KNOW when I see a good game. Been playing computer games for 28 years now. From Trash 80 to Atari 800 (no it was NOT a console), Amiga, PC's, from Utima to Balder's Gate from DAoC to Wow, from LOTRO to Age of Loading. Not even talking of the wargaming years I had. From SPI, AH, pencil and paper DD to Warhammer miniatures.

World of Warcraft IS a sandbox game because:

1. My avatar is my sandbox I do LIVE with it in an ever changing world that I consider a sandbox.

The moment I MAKE my weapons and my helicopter and my steath device and I get potions and enchantments of other professions I CHANGE that world.

I Change it by ECONOMICS through the Auction House. The scopes I craft change the world  and makes players better. Just like all those other professions do. Hey there is that warrior who can make me a better saddle so I ride faster...

And Wow has about the best economics ANY MMORPG has.

2. My OPTIONS in its end game are completely free and anno 2008 Wow Raiding is just a tiny part of the game for LOTS of players.

3. I talked this over with my brother in that Gruul Raid we had last night. When we were doing arena's and later a few Battlegrounds, you know what he said ? If Wow was only about raiding he would have left it already a year ago.

4. Most of you all DO NOT have an idea of what Wow has become since patch 2.3. You only think at the "!" and "?" signs when doing basic leveling. I am talking the REAL play at level 70 and the HUGE number of playing styles you have at level 70.

5. Its prejudgement of third hand information like somebody said, those who played Wow 2 years ago while leveling to a level 60 and then quit.

And the elitism and frustration about WOW is understandable. Having 62% marketshare AND getting transformed into a sandbox game is not a good sign for its haters.

The only blinds ones here are the guys who just don't see the evolution.

---

Where were the auction houses in UO ???? The basis to have a REAL driven economy?

And what was the result again of that NEW game the UO designer brought in 2007? Tabula rasa .....

TBC anno 2008 is very MUCH a sandbox game. And WotLK will exploit it further.

Have a nice frustrated day.

 

 

Your age doesn't make you an expert on the topic, no matter how much experience you have with gaming.

Again, you only show your OPINION in that you THINK WoW offers a great deal of freedom therefore you THINK it is a sandbox game.  But unfortunately for you, that is not the case.  As I've already listed, there are elements that are the core of sandbox games, and WoW does not meet ANY of them at the core.  The game may give the illusion of some sandbox elements, but at the core, it is NOT a sandbox game.

 

And I do play WoW, so does my friends.  And when we talk about WoW, we know exactly what it is - a game that has many things done right, but it is NOT A SANDBOX GAME!

 

 

And you haven't answer my questions from before...  When you answer that, then we can continue to discuss this, otherwise you are just repeating your opinion based on personal experience, and that doesn't prove WoW is a sandbox game.

 

About the economy.  It can be debate with greater detail of the different implementation (may it be auction house or personal shops.)  But this thread is not the place to do this...

 

Anyway, we all have hijack this thread for far too long.  Let's get back to the OP's original question...

Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR

Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)

  Kanubis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 112

6/18/08 4:18:23 AM#109
Originally posted by Zorndorf
Originally posted by Avos

/Agree

However, there really is no need to hate on WoW or the kids who play it.  It servers a purpose and to be honest if people can stay charmed by a game with such little depth and complexity for so long, I don't want them in my gaming community anyway, other than to grief on.

I played UO and Pre-CU SWG.  That's my type of game.  I remember when Pre-CU SWG launched and we were finally able to log on the 2nd day it was really as if hundreds of thousands of people were just dropped on these planets, left at the mercy of their own resourcefullness.

We had no money, no decent weapons, nothing.  Survival was tough.  Before they had mounts or vehicles I used to have to run to my harvestors to collect minerals for 15 - 20 real-time minutes and it was a dangerous task.  You had to dodge NPC spawns along the way that could kill you at any given moment.  I haven't had that sort of thrill in an MMO since. 

Everything is spoonfed now, instanced.  Your path is planned for you.  Unless you have played this type of game you really don't know what "sandbox" means.


 

Thank you for calling me a kid at the age of 52.

Problem is I have more years on gaming than all of you combined. :))

And I KNOW when I see a good game. Been playing computer games for 28 years now. From Trash 80 to Atari 800 (no it was NOT a console), Amiga, PC's, from Utima to Balder's Gate from DAoC to Wow, from LOTRO to Age of Loading. Not even talking of the wargaming years I had. From SPI, AH, pencil and paper DD to Warhammer miniatures.

World of Warcraft IS a sandbox game because:

1. My avatar is my sandbox I do LIVE with it in an ever changing world that I consider a sandbox.

The moment I MAKE my weapons and my helicopter and my steath device and I get potions and enchantments of other professions I CHANGE that world.

I Change it by ECONOMICS through the Auction House. The scopes I craft change the world  and makes players better. Just like all those other professions do. Hey there is that warrior who can make me a better saddle so I ride faster...

And Wow has about the best economics ANY MMORPG has.

2. My OPTIONS in its end game are completely free and anno 2008 Wow Raiding is just a tiny part of the game for LOTS of players.

3. I talked this over with my brother in that Gruul Raid we had last night. When we were doing arena's and later a few Battlegrounds, you know what he said ? If Wow was only about raiding he would have left it already a year ago.

4. Most of you all DO NOT have an idea of what Wow has become since patch 2.3. You only think at the "!" and "?" signs when doing basic leveling. I am talking the REAL play at level 70 and the HUGE number of playing styles you have at level 70.

5. Its prejudgement of third hand information like somebody said, those who played Wow 2 years ago while leveling to a level 60 and then quit.

And the elitism and frustration about WOW is understandable. Having 62% marketshare AND getting transformed into a sandbox game is not a good sign for its haters.

The only blinds ones here are the guys who just don't see the evolution.

---

Where were the auction houses in UO ???? The basis to have a REAL driven economy?

And what was the result again of that NEW game the UO designer brought in 2007? Tabula rasa .....

TBC anno 2008 is very MUCH a sandbox game. And WotLK will exploit it further.

Have a nice frustrated day.

 

 

No Zandorf, I've played WoW since closed beta and still have an account to this day. Last week I was in Black Temple and tonight I'll be in Zulaman. When patch 2.4 came out I participated actively in the new dailies to see how the island evolved (and to spawn the armourer NPC so I could get the lovely new badge gear.) Last night I was helping some guildmembers who only recently got level 70 to finish their SMV group quests, then I did a couple of Netherwing dailies because despite being a druid with epic flight form, I just want one of those cool dragons. In my spare moments I'm getting some honour from BG's because I want to build a balance set on the side for when I want to respec from resto for some fun, especially since Iøve read some of the alpha leaks and balance looks awesome in WotLK so far.

I love WoW, and I think WotLK is going to be an awesome advancement of the game. Almost every night I embrace the diversity of what the game offers. For you to say I bash the game is utterly wrong, and likewise to say that I don't have knowledge of what the game is, right now, or what it will be, is plain wrong.

Therefore, I do feel entierly qualified to say that it is simply not a sandbox game, excepting the idea that all MMO's are sandbox to some extent, in which case it is far, far less sandbox than the genre examples that are generally considered by common consensus to be 'true' sandbox MMO's.

 

What especially confuses me is WHY you are so determined to prove WoW is a sandbox mmo? Sandbox is a preference, a style, but itøs not a statement of quality.

  UnSub

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/16/04
Posts: 252

6/18/08 4:25:09 AM#110
Originally posted by Mahni

Thread seems simple enough...

Sandbox, as defined by this thread:

  1. All the kids have to play in the same sandbox
  2. Kids go anywhere they like within the sandbox
  3. Kids can move or shape the sand (or throw it, make it into mud, etc.)
  4. There are a large set of toys that the parents have put in the sandbox
  5. Each kid gets the same set of toys (shovels, buckets, etc.) in the sandbox - they do not have to make an initial choice of what toys they will use, and they can change at any time
  6. Each kid can use the toys in any way they choose - they do not have to use one toy in order to earn the right to use another toy
  7. The toys work in the same way for every kid - Billy doesn't really have an epic toy of shoveling + 2
  8. Kids can make deals with other kids - through trades (I'll sell you this sandcastle I built!) or by social interactions (let's agree to work together to build this sandcastle that we can both enjoy!)
  9. Kids can beat up other kids and take any candy they might have (their parents do not care)
  10. The sandbox does not clean itself

Why there are no more sandboxes, as defined by this thread:

  1. Kids nowadays are going to Disneyworld
  2. Kids nowadays can't tell the difference between a sandbox and Disneyworld so they are lured away by the costumed characters and the sounds of other kids having fun
  3. The sandboxes weren't making enough money to compete with Disneyworld
  4. After kids "cut their teeth" at Disneyworld, maybe they will start to appreciate / look for a nice old sandbox
  5. It takes a special person to make a sandbox, parents nowadays aren't smart / creative enough
  6. It takes a special kid to play in a sandbox, kids nowadays aren't smart / creative enough
  7. They just don't make sandboxes like they used to (ah, the good old days!)
  8. The kids started crying about being beat up in the sandboxes, or the bullies ruin it for everyone
  9. The kids started whining about making the toys easier to use and ruined it for everyone
  10. The kids grew up and became more interested in the real world (opposite sex, job, money) so they don't have time for sandboxes
  11. There is a secret sandbox but its only for the smart and / or cool kids

 


 

This is the greatest post ever on these boards. :-)

  Vladalf

Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/08
Posts: 11

6/18/08 4:39:50 AM#111

Seems like Mortal Online will be a sandbox mmorpg. Check it out!

http://www.mortalonline.com/

  vajuras

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/06
Posts: 2857

6/18/08 4:47:45 AM#112
Originally posted by Zorndorf
Originally posted by Talgen

With all due respect,  it is a huge leap to call a game "sandbox" at the end of the game.  Sandbox games are generally understood as complete and utter freedom throughout the game, not just at level 70.  And some pureists would argue a sandbox game has no levels anyway.


 

I agree on that. 100 %

The problem with the basic construction of Wow was that it was designed 4 and more years ago and indeed HAD and HAS a very lineair playing style to level.

That's a pity. Most people who say Wow is all about "?" and "I" are right in the leveling part to level 70.

But its end game now it is indeed a complete different game than 2 years ago.

As I said it changed around the end of last year. Blizzard has promoted very different end play styles and backed it up by a very fast leveling system just "to get there" where the real game begins. And raids is but a fraction of it.

It is also combat driven. But that doesn't exclude it from being played in RP or pure AH play.

 

You forget the basic tenant of a sandbox is there is "no end". There is no endgame. In EVE Online, nothng stops a newbie from going anywhere he pleases at anytime. Nothing stops them from joining Fleet Battles. There is no end game

Take Elder scrolls or any other acclaimed Sandbox. No end. Game keeps going.

  vajuras

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/06
Posts: 2857

6/18/08 4:52:34 AM#113

Come to think of it WoW breaks another basic tenant most sandboxes share. There is teaming restrictions in WoW

Battlegrounds the limit is what - 48 vs 48?

Raids is what 10 now? I forgot, the number isn;t important. The important fact is there is a 'limit'. A barrier

 

In a sandbox there is no grouping restrictions. Freedom. In EVE Online we can bring a fleet into a mission. No grouping limits anywhere. Ever....

 

Sandbox basic criteria is Freedom. WoW is no where close to this.

  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5610

6/18/08 4:55:51 AM#114

I've seen a lot of things in these forums, but this is the first tme somebody seriously attempts to convince people that WoW is a sandbox game. Hilarious. WoW is anything but sandbox. And that's probably the main reason it's so popular. The game offers a lot of things, sandbox elements is not one of them.

  Forcan

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 702

Nov. 15th 2005
my heart died a little...
Long Live SWG(PreCU)

6/18/08 5:04:09 AM#115
Originally posted by Zorndorf
Originally posted by Kanubis

 

Therefore, I do feel entierly qualified to say that it is simply not a sandbox game, excepting the idea that all MMO's are sandbox to some extent, in which case it is far, far less sandbox than the genre examples that are generally considered by common consensus to be 'true' sandbox MMO's.

 

What especially confuses me is WHY you are so determined to prove WoW is a sandbox mmo? Sandbox is a preference, a style, but itøs not a statement of quality.


 

Why?

Because I showed and to some extend I proved that indeed almost every MMORPG out there is more or less a sandbox game, because ... PURE sandbox games are in fact 'thin air" ideas. Loose ideas, to serve ones purpose....

The answer you will find in my very first post of this thread. I showed that to have a GOOD and polished MMORPG these days you need to have COMPLETE designer control of every aspect of the game.

Again, you prove nothing... You only keep talking about your opinion and ignore the core elements of what constitute as a sandbox game.

 

Lack of these millions of data analysis and testings  (read the first thread) result in games like Age of Conan and the numerous OLD MMORPG techniques we had to endure.

Amateurish, broken systems.

Sandbox is a hype and a "myth". Seen by old grognards who think they can stand above the masses by looking back at HOW good those old days were.

It's normal: they consider themselves the upper upper classes of MMORPG players.

Again, opinion stated by you, which proved nothing...  Most sandbox advocate doesn't consider themselves higher than other, just have a different view on the ability of MMORPG.  And sandbox isn't a myth.  There are still sandbox games that are currently running.  I would mention them again, but they are all mentioned in this thread.

In society they are the cricket players of modern sports (Eve). A game hard to play and hard to explain.

While football is for the masses with little education, cricket is for the elite.

No matter how laggy and compressed you have to play EVE in PvP (rather like to look at a spreadsheet when battles did  take place). It is CHIQUE to say to play EVE and stating it is a sandbox game.

Truth is : every good MMORPG out there is to a certain degree a sandbox game.

This is only a half-truth.  The actual statement is that all MMORPG are build on a sandbox premise with different set of rules.  When the rules limit the core of sandbox elements, the games stop being sandbox.

And the best are those with decent analysed data designs with a big gameplay value and LOTS of options in their end game playing styles.

Again, your opinion, not proven fact.

 

 

Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR

Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)

  thamighty213

Novice Member

Joined: 9/17/06
Posts: 1648

6/18/08 5:04:20 AM#116

Wow is linear garbage it is not a sandbox.

Vanguard is not a sandbox again because of level's

The closest game i can think of recently was Pre-CU SWG you could go anywhere do anything you wernt forced to a single region to gain skill's

 

As long as a game has levels rather than skill's it will never be sandbox.

  Rymdkejsaren

Novice Member

Joined: 10/28/05
Posts: 79

Pancakes.

6/18/08 5:04:47 AM#117
Originally posted by Zorndorf

Wow doesn't end either.

the game only begins at level 70 and it has a MUCH more varied options of playing styles than EVE ever had.

Competitive PvP play being broadcasted?

 


 

Ha.

Ha.

Ha.

If it begins at level 70, why doesn't everyone get level 70 from the start?

  Forcan

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 702

Nov. 15th 2005
my heart died a little...
Long Live SWG(PreCU)

6/18/08 5:12:48 AM#118
Originally posted by Zorndorf
Originally posted by Rymdkejsaren
Originally posted by Zorndorf

Wow doesn't end either.

the game only begins at level 70 and it has a MUCH more varied options of playing styles than EVE ever had.

Competitive PvP play being broadcasted?

 


 

Ha.

Ha.

Ha.

If it begins at level 70, why doesn't everyone get level 70 from the start?

Because the game begins as a lineair MMORPG (designed in 2004) , but its present end game is NOT lineair at all since patch 2.3.
 

 

 

... You, sir, just fail at logic...

Seriously, IF the game starts at 70, what's the point of 1 - 69?  Wasting money and time until 70 to play the "real game"? 

You cannot say WoW is not linear when you still have 1 - 69 right there in the character progression...  Because you already passed the stage doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

By the way, I'm still waiting for the answer to my questions from earlier posts to see if you can prove WoW to be a sandbox game...

 

Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR

Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)

  blondeh

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/05
Posts: 547

SWG PRE-CU FTW!

6/18/08 5:29:15 AM#119

In WoW the game starts at 70? WoW is like a sanbox after 70? You sir are an idiot.

In SWG the game started the minute you loaded into Cnet, or Nabbo, or whichever destination you chose. That game never had a ending. You didnt need to max a combat proffesion to have any fun.

SWG was the last of a TRUE MMORPG. WoW fans have no idea on what they missed.

I just wish a really good, polished Sanbox game would be released and give all those poor mmorpg players (who have only ever played WoW etc) a real taste of what an mmorpg should look like.

  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5610

6/18/08 5:49:42 AM#120

Actually, present time WoW is the epitome of linear gameplay. At least at he beginning the game was more free roaming than it is today (minus the leveling of course).

Right now you're boxed in two very rigid, very unforgiving paths with a specific pattern that you need to do every single day.

If you're a raider (or the more casual version of running instances)

  1. Take the flying mount and do as many dailies as possible.
  2. Take the flying mount and farm as many herbs as possible.
  3. Take the flying mount and go spend 3-5 hours in a raid instance (less tiime for group ones)
  4. Rinse and repeat each day

If you're a PvPer, it's simper.

  1. Go to battlemaster, register for an instance, either arena or battleground.
  2. Wait
  3. Enter instance, play the game.
  4. Exit instance
  5. Rinse and repeat each day.

If you're a casual, you're basically running through the same routine, with a slower pace and much less stress. The problem of course that the mere existence of this routine gameplay is the pinnacle of what constitutes the opposite of what a true sandbox is all about.

It's not the levels really. You can have a sandbox game with levels (raising skills or raising levels is really the same thing). The moment however you're locked in a routine, doing things out of necessity so as to enjoy things you like, sandbox goes down the drain.

The strong point of WoW is that the routine is interesting and it does keep you ocuppied and entertained fr quite some time. However, this is not about either popularity or entertainment value.

WoW is a great game on it's own. It doesn't need to be called something it is not to do well. Blizzard can potentially do a great sandbox MMO in the future. WoW will however remain her theme-park MMO.

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