General Discussion

I didn't bother to read all of this, but I agree totally with the OP.  Not only about the grouping aspect, which I could see either way on that.  I liked one guys post about the circle, games were about grouping, then solo and then back to grouping.  That seems kinda reasonable to me, especially with all the different types of MMO players out there.

What I really liked about what the OP said was that games are too EASY.  I want to walk out at the beginning and get totally owned too.  I want to try multiple times and fail trying to beat the first mob I see.  I want to have to climb to the top of a tower and shoot the bastard before he reaches me, because I know if he reaches me I'm dead.

Plus whoever it was talking about guilds in WoW...guilds in WoW are nothing compared to old MMO's.  The fact that I could have a guild house in AC was huge.  I'd log in and see my guild members simply hangin' out around the house buffing each other getting ready for another adventure.  The coolest thing about that is that people aren't the green text in the chat box in your lower left hand corner.  They are there, right next to you, everytime you log on. 

It all just adds so much more to guilds.  But whatever I'm getting lengthy.

Originally posted by Pappy13

Originally posted by Hexxeity

Why should I bend over backwards to sometimes be able to group and generally forget about the content I find most interesting (instances)? 

Why would I choose to sort-of be able to group sometimes in WoW when I can group anytime I want with a lot less effort in CoH?

 

No, it's not because of the content in WoW, it's because the end result is SO much better.  You think grouping is grouping and I can tell you flat out that grouping is NOT grouping.  There is PUG grouping and there is grouping within a guild. 

Have you ever played a team sport like Basketball where you go to the local YMCA and just get in a PUG?  Is it fun?  Sure it's fun.  But have you ever been on a Basketball team that played in a league?  One where you met up to play?  Shared the same uniform?  Kept track of wins and losses for your team?  Where you learned how to play as a team rather than just be 5 individuals on a court who's points just happen to get added together?  There's a BIG difference.  It's night and day.  And if you have never experienced that, then I can understand why you don't agree with me, but if you have than I think you are either ignoring the fact being in a WoW guild is like that or you just don't believe it can be like that.  It can be.

Actually I hate team sports, and I don't CARE what guild grouping in WoW can be, because it is not something I will ever be able to participate in.  And also it is beside the point.

I know you think WoW is The Perfect Game.  And I'm sure it is, for you.  But you have a huge blind spot, Pappy, when it comes to recognizing that other players have different play styles and different needs.

I need PUGs.  I enjoy them.  I want to be in them with other people who enjoy them.  And I want a game that makes that possible.  And that game is not World of Warcraft.

good post by the OP. Though just one anal point, DAoC had Battleground instances if I recall.

can I point Everquest wasn't "forced grouping" either. It was more incenting to group- people did solo. In the actual Everquest manual there is a rating for how well different classes could solo or group, solo was part of the game. Everquest was just more group-based.

Lastly, I'll make an interesting point on WoW. There are many reasons why there is a very heavy solo-bias to the level cap like too fast levelling, too strict grouping requirements- and people looking specifically for group makeups etc etc. But, there is another overlooked idea why that is. Basically, there are people that want to group and there are people that want to solo. That's fine, but what you want is the people that want to group to be incented to do that. WoW's method is a quest or instance is done, and that isn't needed to be done again, the people who have done that don't need to do it again and move on, especially as by doing it again they get no sort of 'incentive' to do that. First time you do an instance you have a multitude of quests to complete which when you complete them gives you a sizeable xp incentive- once you've done them you no longer have that. The 'potential' groupers then move on and go back to soloing- and this is a problem.

For instance, if someone shouts on /ooc 'can I get help with x and y quest', if the 'potential grouper' who would be willing to group with that person to do those quests has already done those quests, then he isn't going to reply. Result- two extra soloers. If, there was an incentive for a person to do a quest again, or do an instance again then the game favours grouping better.

Originally posted by eowdaoc

 Oh and by the way, I hate WoW and think it should burn in hell, coming from a veteran MMO player.  Imo it has definitely hurt the market in more ways than it has helped.

Now now I do get it that people dislike games. But don't you think it's a wee "crazy" to blame a game to hurt an industry while you should blame developers? Blizzard made a game, a lot of people liked it and played it. So far I haven't seen anything wrong with doing that. If people dumb down mmo's & copy wow because of it being a success, then clearly those are the ones you need to point your anger to.

I play wow since launch and it has as much annoying things then good things for me. (been saying since release how shallow the game is :p) but what got me fed up with the so called depth and new killer games is they are damn unfinished every time. That's blizzards strenght, a finished game with not too much bugs.

Look at most new mmo releases, it could have been good if they would have just delivered a full working product. But no you get stupid fan boy's going: ooh but it's just in open beta (this can be defended a bit) then they go: but it just launched and after that just give it some time! Stop accepting that crap since you're saying to those developers it's okay to launch a game that's not even finished.

I've experienced SWG, heard lies for years, put up with bugs just since there wasn't anything out there with such a potential. Now you even see cookie cutter mmo's released that are unfinished... Nice evolution...

I think the question is are you really having fun doing the quests?  I thought the '!' was a great idea in WoW, but the more I use it the less I am actually thinking in any way.  The '!', the '?', and the 'X', are all bad for the mind as it takes away any thinking involved in the game.  This doesn't seem very good for the mind IMO.  I believe you may end up feeling good about yourself because you are able to click on '!' and follow the mini map to 'X'.  In reality this is a nearly mindless act.  You are following these icons around all day long.  I hope Devs try attempt to come up with something a little more complex in the future.

Hello everyone,

I know this is my frist post ever on here.  Thou I have I have been coming to these forms for along time now.

I would like to just chime in on this topic.  What I have at least for me discovered is this.  You get pentalized for grouping in WOW.  What I mean by this is that you get crap XP for it.  Why would anybody group at all unless you really had too.  The xp reward for doing it is just not worth it.  I would love to group more if I could but most people just dont want to for this very reason alone.

The other reason I see too is this.  Somepeople are just to rude.  And once you have ran into some of these rude poeple.  Then everyone becames a noob, scurb, or just got no skill.  I mean sometimes I wonder where do I fall in.  Am I a noob, scrub, or just got no skill.  I like to think that I am a nice guy.  I like to think I play this game ok.  But this is how we treat each other.  It is too bad too because most people are not this way but we have conviced ourselves the they are.  But I guess it is easy to be a jerk behind a keyboard, monitor, and 500 mile between everyone.   It is just a few who kill the feel for everyone else.

Lastly is this.  Gear and stats.  If you dont have either nobody wants anything to do with ya.  But I cant get the gear or stats unless someone is will to run with me.  It is a no win problem for the casual.

I am in a guild,  I have played since day one.  The problem is just as bad in some guilds as it is in pugs.  I dont have the answers.  But these are some of things I have seen

Tim

Yea right. You guys all say this crap. Until you have no quests and don't know what the hell to do. Then you go and bash the game creators.

Just like with PvP. Losing all items when you die. Didn't a game make that option besides Runescape? Yea..Pretty sure they did. What happened to that game? Hmm....definetely ain't no WoW, tell you that much.

So much talk, but in the end. Quests is what works. It doesn't matter what you guys say.