damn!  still no fix for the instanced *outside* world and immersion killing loading screens... oh well at least some people like playing technology from 2002...

Overall, I think AoC is a pretty decent game and if they do PvP right and keep adding PvP elements it will do fine. If they pull a WoW and go from what could have been a great PvP game and turn it into an EQ PvE grindfest, then so long, farewell.

PvE has been done to death, it was derived from single player games that required it simply because it was all that we knew. Once MMO's came out, companies realized the players could in turn be used as content and excitement in terms of player driven societies, cities, economies and wars.

PvE is still important till the end game, but PvE has never served a purpose in any end game environment. Seriously, raiding a dungeon once is bad enough, I don't want to raid it over and over a hundred times just to get MY gear.

AoC will be fine as long as they stick to their PvP guns and focus on that. Perhaps following the design ideas of Shadowbane and Dark Age of Camelot.

As you can tell by my Avatar, I should probably hate this game out of respect of WAR, but I don't. I was skeptical and such, but I've been having fun so far and I'm only 45 since launch. I think what helps a lot is the fact I have 2 army buddies that I group with a majority of the time.

Friends and guilds make any MMO 100x better than what it is solo.

Well, I take it as with Vanguard, I will see how it is in 6-12 months. Maybe its really good then, maybe not. At least they admit their probs earlier than Sigil did, which speaks for them.

Originally posted by Leucent

In otherwords, we thank you for paying for beta because we simply weren t ready for release.

Just like every other MMO other than LOTRO, would you like a cookie?

Originally posted by jedibeck16

 

Originally posted by MindTrigger

 

Originally posted by SaintViktor

All good things headed for AOC and thats a good thing. This is my first time dealing ith Funcom and I think they are doing a pretty good job of cleaning up alot of stuff. I think they tried to be too ambitious with the game, trying to perfect everything. They clearly have good intentions of improving and making the game even better despite some issues at the moment.  

AoC is anything but ambitous.  The original design of Star Wars Galaxies, now that was ambitious and one of the reasons they never could balance the game or keep up with it's problems.  If anything AoC suffers from a lack of vision.  Too much time and effort was wasted on making it a pretty game, instead of a fun game with tons of content.

 

They simply released the game in an unfinished state, and now they are paying the price.  I understand some people like this game, but it's hardly an MMO the way it was designed.  It plays like a single player game with online elements, including the fact that you can level to 80 very quickly without ever having to group.

That all depends on what level you are when you decide to do the group quests (yes, they are there).  I for one was heavily challenged by the group quests and needed a couple people to come along with me.

 

I am also tired of the "unfinished" comments.  By nature, ALL MMO's are unfinished, constantly being changed, tweaked and updated.  I've beta tested LOTRO, Warcraft, and MxO, and all of these were buggier than this MMO was at launch (though I think LOTRO, possibly, was slightly smoother).

The "unfinished" argument really doesn't hold water for this reason.  A better way to phrase it, perhaps, would be "incomplete content promised upon launch" which, in its own right, is a worthy complaint.

Jon

When I say AoC was unfinished, I am not talking about normal launch bugs, and 'normal' missing content. (which, by the way, is only normal because people continue to pay these game companies to release unfinished games.) I am talking about glaring bugs that could only have been completely overlooked in order to get this game launched on time, and never should have made it past the beta stage.  I'm talking about barely implemented key features such as the chat and emote systems, quest log, grouping features, etc.  I'm talking about the feats system not working, and the stats on armor not working and/or making little or no impact on a player's stats.  Hell, there are stats on items that no one even know what they do because funcom won't release the information.

When I am talking about missing content, I am referring to giant gaps in quests for certain levels.  This game was purposely designed so that players could reach the cap (solo) in only 250 hours.  Some people have done it in 200.  You can't design a game like that, and then use the excuse that you didn't expect players to level fast, so you didn't have the middle and endgame content completed. Also, let's not forget that player cities are bugged to death, and siege warfare is MIA.

What about crafting?  Crafting is usually a great side project for people to do while they level.  It effectively slows down leveling for many people, because crafting is supposed to be a fun activity that can get you away from grinding and combat. The whole system seems like it was thrown in the game 3 months ago.  Static spawning resource nodes that people can mark on their map?  In Stygia I played for several days and only came across one node that had one item in it.   Crafting itself is not working, including the game breaking gemcrafting system.  How did any of this make it past beta?

I'll tell you how.  The issues were completely ignored.  There are countless beta testers out there who tried to get Funcom to hold the game because it was no where near ready for launch.  In my opinion,  someone in management at Funcom must have decided it was time to push the game out, so they did.  They put all their time into making Tortage nearly flawless, pushed mounts and crafting to level 40 so few people would notice that none of it worked right, and rushed the game out,.  Ask yourself how, after FIVE (5) years of development, this game finds itself in such an imcomplete state?  You would think it would be the most polished MMO ever released considering how long it's been in dev.  This tells me that the team is either too small, or too unorganized to handle this project correctly.

The things I stated above are aside from 'normal' launch problems and missing content. These are key aspects of the game that should have been in the game and completely functioning.  Did Funcom do no research of other MMOs to figure out what players consider normal MMO features these days?  Any half wit gamer knows that MMO launches can be a rocky ride, but there is a huge difference between launch bugs, and launching a game that is missing a large portion of working standard MMO game features.

First of all let me say that I already did speak with my wallet and am not playing AoC, second, the previous fact does in no way invalidate my opinion of the game.

I find it amusing that the game is less then a month old and we are looking as a revamp of the PvP system already. Wasn't this one of the big pointswith AoC, all the PvPers were gonna go there?

I guess it wasn't so great. . .

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by streea

 

Originally posted by Leucent

In otherwords, we thank you for paying for beta because we simply weren t ready for release.

Oh just stop it already. WoW still has bug fixes and updates, and EVERY MMO will too. And you know how buggy SWG was the first few months? Yet people still loved to play it.

 

If you have a problem with playing a game that will continuously have fixes and patches, go play a boardgame. Otherwise, stop moaning.

Should have been more clear i was commenting on the content missing and parts of the game no one got to see to realize it s NOT IN GAME YET.

I like the game and had fun playing in the beta but even I think they should have waited.  They even said in the letter that their are major issues that need to be fixed, this shouldn't have happened.  I won't pay for the for another few months because I know their are issues from playing in the beta and from what I read.  I have no doubt that Funcom will fix them and part of me doesn't blame them for brining it out when they did, it costs money every day they would have delayed the game.  BUT its a double edged sword and they took a chance.  Bring out the game with major issues and take a chance that people are going to get angry and leave and have a bitter taste in their mouth or delay the game, loose money and still have people pissed off because they didn't bring the game out on time.  A dev is damned if they do and damned if they don't...but with issues that AoC has and as major as they are maybe it would have been best to wait.  When the game has most of its kinks worked out (no game has no kinks), this game will be a lot of fun and worth the money.  Right now...for me anyways...its not worth a monthly fee.  I'll give it time and then I'll pay.

Good post, MindTrigger.  All of the points you made are valid, and even accurate. Though on one point I disagree: most MMOs HAVE had glaring bugs at launch, not just AoC.

It was merely your "incomplete" statement I was taking issue with, simply because there are so many thoughtless critics out there that don't really think out their reasoning.  If you looked at the last line of my post, the "adjustment" to your comment, you would have seen that that comment is in agreement with your analysis.

I agree that the game could have used some more polish time, while acknowledging the need to get the major issues (namely, core content that was advertised) completed before they launched.  That said, I think AoC is a great game, and am thoroughly enjoying my experience.  Though, part of this is probably because I have neither started the crafting nor the sieging.

I do completely agree with you that the crafting system sucks and is in desperate need of some attention, however.

Jon

Wooohooo. about time. pvp levels!

Originally posted by Shadow786

 US release. Remember Captain Placeholder?

no but he sounds like an AWESOME guy.

Originally posted by dsebutchr

I would like to suggest that all the whiners do EXACTLY what they say and leave the game.  All of you who are threatening to leave...please do so.

The rest of us are having a really good time and I'm all for not having to listen to you any more.

Thanks for playing. 

Sometime, a few months out, the general consensus begins to form that the game was in fact a disappointment.  People coalesce around this fundamental truth-a select few dig in and stick with the game-the game either lives or dies based on the companies ability to support a diminished population.  We the game community all migrate to the latest greatest, campaign for our beta keys, watch video's and screen caps...and the circle of mmo life continues...

Originally posted by Spellshaper

 PVE NPC cities and attacks either arent in

------------
About me: I am casual player, so I didnt reach high lvl content yet. I love the game, the lore, the system, all of it. So my only problem on higher lvls can be content (including sieges and everything mentioned above). And if you ask me if you should by this game, still answer is YES because I still beleive in Funcom (at least for now).

Unless I have a terrible memory, those where canceled completely. I dont think all guilds liked be constantly attacked by random npcs whilst trying to thier there shopping/crafting/sociallising/roleplaying/cyb0ring etc.

---

Originally posted by Consensus
Unless I have a terrible memory, those where canceled completely.

---

Originally posted by deguildeving

In LOTRO beta we were balancing classes far before release.  (and yet, in the first year, most of the classes had to be rebalanced, and that's w/o any real considerations for PVP) We were polishing up the completed crafting sytem.  (which has undergone revisions and uprgrades since launch) Even finalizing the initial higher level areas months before it went live.  (and they released a brand new area that wasn't finished within 6 weeks of launch, and have continued to do so since)

Don't get me wrong, I thought LotRO had a good beta/launch, but just pointing out it was far from "finished"

Change is inevitable in MMO's.

Originally posted by MindTrigger

 

Originally posted by jedibeck16

 

Originally posted by MindTrigger

 

Originally posted by SaintViktor

All good things headed for AOC and thats a good thing. This is my first time dealing ith Funcom and I think they are doing a pretty good job of cleaning up alot of stuff. I think they tried to be too ambitious with the game, trying to perfect everything. They clearly have good intentions of improving and making the game even better despite some issues at the moment.  

AoC is anything but ambitous.  The original design of Star Wars Galaxies, now that was ambitious and one of the reasons they never could balance the game or keep up with it's problems.  If anything AoC suffers from a lack of vision.  Too much time and effort was wasted on making it a pretty game, instead of a fun game with tons of content.

 

They simply released the game in an unfinished state, and now they are paying the price.  I understand some people like this game, but it's hardly an MMO the way it was designed.  It plays like a single player game with online elements, including the fact that you can level to 80 very quickly without ever having to group.

That all depends on what level you are when you decide to do the group quests (yes, they are there).  I for one was heavily challenged by the group quests and needed a couple people to come along with me.

 

I am also tired of the "unfinished" comments.  By nature, ALL MMO's are unfinished, constantly being changed, tweaked and updated.  I've beta tested LOTRO, Warcraft, and MxO, and all of these were buggier than this MMO was at launch (though I think LOTRO, possibly, was slightly smoother).

The "unfinished" argument really doesn't hold water for this reason.  A better way to phrase it, perhaps, would be "incomplete content promised upon launch" which, in its own right, is a worthy complaint.

Jon

 

When I say AoC was unfinished, I am not talking about normal launch bugs, and 'normal' missing content. (which, by the way, is only normal because people continue to pay these game companies to release unfinished games.) I am talking about glaring bugs that could only have been completely overlooked in order to get this game launched on time, and never should have made it past the beta stage.  I'm talking about barely implemented key features such as the chat and emote systems, quest log, grouping features, etc.  I'm talking about the feats system not working, and the stats on armor not working and/or making little or no impact on a player's stats.  Hell, there are stats on items that no one even know what they do because funcom won't release the information.

 

When I am talking about missing content, I am referring to giant gaps in quests for certain levels.  This game was purposely designed so that players could reach the cap (solo) in only 250 hours.  Some people have done it in 200.  You can't design a game like that, and then use the excuse that you didn't expect players to level fast, so you didn't have the middle and endgame content completed. Also, let's not forget that player cities are bugged to death, and siege warfare is MIA.

 

What about crafting?  Crafting is usually a great side project for people to do while they level.  It effectively slows down leveling for many people, because crafting is supposed to be a fun activity that can get you away from grinding and combat. The whole system seems like it was thrown in the game 3 months ago.  Static spawning resource nodes that people can mark on their map?  In Stygia I played for several days and only came across one node that had one item in it.   Crafting itself is not working, including the game breaking gemcrafting system.  How did any of this make it past beta?

 

I'll tell you how.  The issues were completely ignored.  There are countless beta testers out there who tried to get Funcom to hold the game because it was no where near ready for launch.  In my opinion,  someone in management at Funcom must have decided it was time to push the game out, so they did.  They put all their time into making Tortage nearly flawless, pushed mounts and crafting to level 40 so few people would notice that none of it worked right, and rushed the game out,.  Ask yourself how, after FIVE (5) years of development, this game finds itself in such an imcomplete state?  You would think it would be the most polished MMO ever released considering how long it's been in dev.  This tells me that the team is either too small, or too unorganized to handle this project correctly.

 

The things I stated above are aside from 'normal' launch problems and missing content. These are key aspects of the game that should have been in the game and completely functioning.  Did Funcom do no research of other MMOs to figure out what players consider normal MMO features these days?  Any half wit gamer knows that MMO launches can be a rocky ride, but there is a huge difference between launch bugs, and launching a game that is missing a large portion of working standard MMO game features.

Well I can see that you know what you r talking about and thats allot more than I can say for others who made replies in these forums.  GJ

Still no word on stats being more than text on the screen?

"We will have an overhaul of the PvP system – adding consequence and a host of small things."

Yes!!!!!! One of my biggest and only true major concern. Not to say I love everything about AoC(Instances ) but this was something I have been hopeful for since my first night playing.

I have just gotten out of Tortage and have been playing since the 23rd. So far I am having a blast, seeing all there is to see, and have run into no true bugs. At my pace(2-3 hours most days, 6+ hours 2 or 3 days) I should be able to enjoy the same quality every 10 levels. I knew better than to shoot through the levels at unenjoyable speeds.... but of course I have played MMORPGs before.

Funcom is good at sweet talking. Thats all about it. Age of conan is build up to be a pvp game and only  now funcom realized the current system is flawed and need an overhaul? I'm not going to wait like a naive kid.

People praising this game are normally all still under level40. Wait till they see the real thing.

Originally posted by Cetra

Funcom is good at sweet talking. Thats all about it. Age of conan is build up to be a pvp game and only  now funcom realized the current system is flawed and need an overhaul? I'm not going to wait like a naive kid.

People praising this game are normally all still under level40. Wait till they see the real thing.

An issue that is most important to keep in mind while browsing forums is that each user is convinced that his/her opinion is the only correct opinion.  For instance, I am a supporter of what Funcom is doing (though I am not without my criticisms), and Cetra obviously has considerably more issues than I.

I am also in a different position than you, Cetra.  As a casual player, I haven't hit 40 yet.  My main is 33, and during that time I have taken the opportunity to level another character who is currently at 17.  I understand how you must feel, getting to the mid-high level content and not having anything to do.  That said, one must keep in mind that virtually all MMOs lack high-level content at this stage in the game.  LOTRO didn't implement its content until they were within the 1-2 month mark.  MxO had more than enough problems that eventually lead to the sale of the MMO franchise to Sony; Tabula Rasa is just devoid of any depth (in my opinion).

Point being, everyone is going to have different opinions on issues, and none of us are likely to change our own, no matter how well-thought-out a post may be.  I am convinced that my opinion is the correct one; others that are heavy Funcom critics believe their opinions to be just as correct.  It's a hard thing to come to terms with, but this is the reality: If you believe Funcom is going to turn things around, then you will be patient with them as they work things out.  If you believe that they dropped the ball on this one, then you will bash them for an under-developed product and, in some cases, label them as a company that is without hope, at least in this go-around.

Personally, I have become very discouraged with all the negativity surrounding this game.  It seems like the nay-sayers far outweigh those that are optimistic about the game's future, and it is hard for me not to get discouraged with AoC after reading these kinds of posts.  It sure would be nice if people would state their opinion, while at the same time valuing the fact that there are other players that are enjoying it, and not bashing them for their support of the product.

Just my opinion.

1. We will have an overhaul of the PvP system – adding consequence and a host of small things.
2. We are fixing bugs you reported through all channels we can get information from.
3. We will add a new large outdoor region in the 55-60 range this summer!
4. This is only a small taster! More information about the exciting summer and fall Roadmap will come the end of the next week!
5. We are staffing up Customer Service, Quality Assurance and Community departments!

 

Wait wait...wait...I know this. What are....the 5 things we should have had done before release!

I won't pay to Beta test. Theres a HUGE difference between playing a new game and playing one that just plain isn't close to done. Sorry Funcom. I may see you guys in 6 months or so to see how things have come along. Good luck.

/cancel