Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Originally posted by De_Valos

 *added in the sig. and thanks for the concern as to my state of employment.  And here I thought we were all having an open and mature discussion accepting of all opinions and input.

 

It stopped being mature when you decided everything was a conspiracy theory, I think that was post 1 from you.  Discounting someones opinions as conspiracy isn't mature or accepting of their opinions and input, its condescending.

OK good point, I honestly felt the conspiracy theory comments would have been received as intened as an attempt to interject some levity into the thread.

But given that the thread is based upon assumptions and conjecture.  The "" seemed rather appropriate did it not?

Adam

Originally posted by De_Valos

 

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Originally posted by De_Valos

 *added in the sig. and thanks for the concern as to my state of employment.  And here I thought we were all having an open and mature discussion accepting of all opinions and input.

 

It stopped being mature when you decided everything was a conspiracy theory, I think that was post 1 from you.  Discounting someones opinions as conspiracy isn't mature or accepting of their opinions and input, its condescending.

 

OK good point, I honestly felt the conspiracy theory comments would have been received as intened as an attempt to interject some levity into the thread.

But given that the thread is based upon assumptions and conjecture.  The "" seemed rather appropriate did it not?

 

Adam

It's not assumptions and conjecture for the OP. He sure as hell knew what was real and what wasn't when he got permanently banned. (Yeah there's still a possibility he's lying about all this, but with the stuff he's posted so far, I remain unconvinced that he's making it all up.) For the rest of us, of course it is, since it didn't happen to us.

De Valos, being in the management business for many years myself I know that your statement that you are separating your personal opinion from your affiliation with Funcom just doesn't work like that.  You are a representattive on Funcom plain and simple, anything you do and say will reflect on Funcom as you are a known employee of Funcom and thus a representative.

Your attitude and reactions to the OP are unprofessional in all manners and damages the waining credibility of Funcom on the eyes of the gaming world.  At one point saying it may take a few days to solve it, to next saying "ALL" cases have been solved and he must have been cheating IS DISCUSSING HIS PRIVATE information as you are a representative of the company and CAN NOT even give opinionated answers like this.  You have given the community the appearance that Funcom is not a reputable company, along with the actions they have taken recently.  From looking at all the postings, it appears this "Bug" WAS known about even before EA, yet Funcom proceeded to continue the release without fixing it.  This is not the fault of the players, but the fault of Funcom and to ban players for your own doings is sadly disappointing and just as bad as the poorly launched Anarcy Online. 

I would expect major repercussions from this whole affair and it will cost Funcom greatly,  and the attitudes and actions of its representatives such as you, will also greatly affect its reputation among the gaming community.

Some may not think that the community of a site like this would affect a game, but remember there are over 800k members here and many who just come here and don't even join up.  With as bad as this ordeal has been, that is no small number to influence.  Remember 1 bad comment or experience will spread to 10, and 1 good comment or experience will spread to 1 other.  This is a common experience in customer service.

On an open forum? You have GOT to be kidding. 

By the way, the game is great, and I'm having a hell of a lot of fun in it.

sadly you probably didnt exploit but received exploited money from someone in the guild...guilt by association ftl!

---

Originally posted by De_Valos
I'll put this one to rest, the individual was not banned because they pooled their guilds gold together on one account.
All individuals who were banned for gold related issues were banned on the 27th of May.
As for the specific reason as to why a specific account is banned, that is between the account holder and Funcom and not for public discussion.
*EDIT for clarity
The point is, that it is Funcom who does not discuss the specific details of an account with the public.
*End EDIT
While I'm at it I'll also add that no one was banned merely for having X amount of gold on a character. A far more exhaustive review was conducted than the conspiracy theorist would want you to believe.
And let the conspiracy theories continue...

Respectfully,
Adam "De`Valos" Young
Lead Database Administrator
Funcom Inc.

---

1) i highly believe that "Adam" is a employee with Funcom. All MMORPG companies have a community rep, and if he was legit in anyway he would get in crap after all the posts he made in this thread alone. Sure anyone could say they work for a company, hell i could say i work for Blizzard and no one would actually know (not like id want to work for them anyway). So Adam...quit the BS...STFU...and stop pouring more gas on the fire with ur crap and lies.

2) i read that the OP sent in many emails to Funcom and barely got a response back...typical. Hes not getting any help back from them because they dont even know how to reply, and fix the damage that they already dealt.

De Valos by bringing up the EULA you were highlighting that Funcom can ban someone with no justification as that is their right.

I didn't dispute this, what I was highlighting is that this attitude is exactly the attitude SOE used with NGE in that the game is their property and the players have no rights. How is that in anyway a conspiracy it is simple fact.

As stated I will not be renewing AOC just as I left SWG, I will not fund a company with these attitudes. That is my right as it is every other players right.

If your opinions are yours and not a reflection of funcom's why even bring up the fact you are an employee.

When I post on a forum that is in anway linked to my job I do not bring up who I work for, my employer's would take a very dim view that I was in anyway representing them without official sanction.

So either you are here as a representative of Funcom in which case declaring yourself as an employee is fine and your opinions reflect Funcom's or your not and declaring yourself as an employee is irrelevant.

---

Originally posted by De_Valos
*And these responses are just my "personal" opinions, and yes I expect that some people won't be able to seperate my personal opinon from Funcom policy, hence the need for this sentence. My personal opinions are not to be taken as those of my employer.

...

Adam "De`Valos" Young
Lead Database Administrator
Funcom Inc.

---

Sorry, you're statement and your signature are contradictory. If you're trying to lend weight to your arguments by stating you're an employee of Funcom, then quess what ... you're representing Funcom in this argument. That's exactly how posters will take your opinions whether you intend them to or not.

Innocent players get erroneously pegged all the time in blanket operations. Does it make sense to ban paying customers? No, but it happens. SOE famously banned innocent players during the myriad of credit duping scandals; most where merchants who's goods were bought with bad credits. SOE's excuse was the same as I'm seeing here: it's better to remove a few innocents than to allow a few bad credits into the economy.

I have a simple solution to this. Fix your damn game so people can't use exploits to make money. I'm not saying it's right to exploit, but we all know if people find a shortcut they are going to take it and spread the word via hacker sites ect. Vanguard was a great example of that. They let exploits linger for 6 months and did nothing about it. I have heard several reports just like the OP so this is not an isolated incident.

That whole "we can't discuss accounts" is the the typical bullshit every MMO company uses. They aren't going to come out and say we banned any account with more than X amount of money if in fact that's what they did. It's a pretty dumb thing to do to ban an account just to investigate. It's their game they can ban who they want, but if they banned me just because they thought I might have done something wrong id be looking for a new game. Banning anyone without proof that they deliberately did something wrong is really bad for PR. If you ban someone that knew they were cheating they are likely to just go away but if you ban someone that wasn't cheating they are going to shout it from the highest mountain top on every forum.

Originally posted by Interitus

 

Originally posted by Xasapis

To j_jonson:

Yes, it's a bug. People exploited the bug. Perma-ban them and good riddance.

And how does someone make a distinction? I've played games where I could easily get good rewards repeatedly. I didn't because I worried it was an exploit, turns out it wasn't. I've also exploited with out even knowing it. I was new to a game and saw someone doing something, they told me it's how people level. Not thinking about it I did it. Lucky for me I found it boring and did other things and later found out it was an exploit. The point is exploiting isn't always black and white.  As a customer we should be able to assume a game is working correctly, that it was tested correctly and if there are bugs in the system, it is the companies fault. You cannot expect players to know if something is working correctly or not. Players can sometimes judge, but that's not even accurate.

 

The big mistake was swining the ban hammer. Even taking the time out and telling them that they have to suspend an account for investigation is always better then blindly banning people.  You'll still get angry but they'll get over it if their account is fine.

And for the AoC community. Wow, what a piece of work. We hear one persons side of the story, and you're ready to lynch them. Even after Funcom says there may have been mistaken bans, you people still insult the OP.  It's so easy to judge, but if you were in that position tell me you wouldn't act the same way.  It was depressing watching the comments degrade from helpful suggestions, and emails to people telling the OP they deserved it.  Now that's community.

The only one to be blamed is Funcom....if the bug was known 2 weeks before EA and from then till now it`s been almost a month and nothing has been done.For me it's sound unprofessional.

Gee Adam. A Lot of people here disagree with you and your companies harsh banning policies.

I almost feel kinda bad for ya.

Wait, you got my money. I don't feel bad anymore.

If you are truely innocent then I am sorry this has happened. If you are level-headed and follow the procedures I am sure you will be reinstated and perhaps be given something in return (for being unjustly accused--and banned). Good luck.

However if you did cheat and exploit then glad to see you go (and anybody else that cheats/exploits), as that sort of player is not good for any game or community no matter how one tries to paint the picture.

For those out there that say it is Funcom's fault for having the exploit in there....right.....Deep down you know it is wrong if you have any sense of right and wrong in life (and I am sure you do). Just because you are able to go incognito in these games that does not mean it gives you a license to cheat/steal/grief etc. Every game has bugs and every game will always have bugs, period; that doesn't mean they should be exploited.

Originally posted by De_Valos

Yet I've clearly stated that could not have been the case because any account that was banned for gold related issues was done so immediately after the maintenance window on the 27th of May.  I've also stated that those effected by the gold related bans were investigated prior to bans being issued, in a rather involved methodology far exceeding the conspiracy theory that anyone with X gold was banned.

Adam "De`Valos" Young

Lead Database Administrator

Funcom Inc.

This is why I always lean towards the official side until I can see something more definitive for myself.  I've seen this time and time again.  SOE with EQ2 said the same thing, Blizzard with WoW, and so on and so forth.  They all said they can't just ban at will.

While I disagree with the compensation part, if found innocent, I'm not about to argue with someone who says they pulled in a 96+ hour alloted time of work.

Edit: additional content

Originally posted by Vladarion

 

Originally posted by Tanvaras

Suxxors mate, sorry to hear that.

I myself will not be trying AoC out, too much bad press about it. I dont mind MMO's having bad press as most do when theya re relased, but AoC is not donig the right thing I think, Lets hope fro there sake they get into gear and sort out there major issues, or they going to be another lemon MMO out there as more and more MMO's go live.

Cheers

Tan

 

You stole my avatar.....I cannot find that icon anywhere anymore so i'm convinced you stole it... >_>

 

Anyways, for one if you really have made it this far already to build a city and the such i feel you are either playing way too much (sleep and eating are good things to do), or you were in fact exploiting.  Everything you do in the game is recorded in a log and Funcom are able to view those anytime they wish seeing how in mmos theres not such thing as invasion of privacy.  Therefore i cannot help but think you are amd or a good majority of your guild are exploiting.  The logs pretty much do not lie once recorded so something in there must of not looked to good in the eyes of Funcom.  They don't just look to see that you have a lot of money they can determine why that may be through logs, but when they see major jumps of money with no source that's a sign.  I myself hate cheaters and if you are cheating/exploiting then THANK GOD they banned you.  If not i'm sorry...contact them and work out the issue.

A similar thing happened with LOTRO....Turbine's program to detect cheaters....had its perameters set too wide (explanation that we were given)  and thus alot of innocent people got banned..........which necessitated Turbine coming out and offering an apology.    No company HAS to offer an apology for actions taken...no gaming company that is....but  Turbine did it in the interests of maintaining good relations with their player base.

The other unfortunate thing that occurs when people get falsely accused and banned...is that the general run of the mill player automatically believes that they are ALL CHEATERS and all deserve banning...which is not the case.

Just wait out this period before you start pointing fingers at people in accusation,   I am sure Funcom will eventually get around to fixing their mistakes......and hopefully the wrongfully banned will at least get a public apology..............

Cend

Well, without knowing all the facts, it's hard to make up an opinion.  However, i don't agree with the way FC is acting in that manner.  The HIT first and ask question later is a rude way of doing business.  

I didnt take part in AoC beta. I simply entered preorder play one week earlier.

And whola, the first thing we noticed IN THE FIRST DAY was that the traders were duping items and money. My guildmate was one of the first ones to report that to a GM. After that day we got periodic server announcements from GMs about not to use bank duping EVERY DAY. It was no bigsurprise when the traders were taken off.

Maybe you missed that daily warnings, maybe a few missed, but did 100 people from your guild missed that?

You sir, are a liar, and I am happy that you got banned. I wish all those who help you willingly get banned soon as well.

(They announced about traders in 3 languages even, in case you dont know english and couldnt read the warnings :P )

Quote "It DOES state in the interview by Ten Ton Hammer and Funcom that there are some innocents that have been banned.................before you go off accusing EVERYONE  of being guilty of cheating."

It also states that the ones that were innocent have had their accounts reinstated already and they have systems in place to prevent it from happening again - also they have systems in place that detects the difference from exploiting gold and those that transfer money to one player to pool thier resources.

He and his guildies exploited and they got caught - plan and simple.

Originally posted by Altug

I didnt take part in AoC beta. I simply entered preorder play one week earlier.

And whola, the first thing we noticed IN THE FIRST DAY was that the traders were duping items and money. My guildmate was one of the first ones to report that to a GM. After that day we got periodic server announcements from GMs about not to use bank duping EVERY DAY. It was no bigsurprise when the traders were taken off.

Maybe you missed that daily warnings, maybe a few missed, but did 100 people from your guild missed that?

You sir, are a liar, and I am happy that you got banned. I wish all those who help you willingly get banned soon as well.

(They announced about traders in 3 languages even, in case you dont know english and couldnt read the warnings :P )

Please read before posting. All of his guildmates "handed" or "gave" all their earned money to him since the game is broke, traders, banking, etc. to hold, as the guild leader, so they could build their city. What you posted has nothing to do with this thread.  What do those warnings have to do with people letting him hold their money?

What I don't understand is why they are banning people because they are using the game that was sold to them.  If you create something and it has flaws, you don't punish the people who found the flaw you fix the flaw.  Is there a giant warning sign that floats by when you are using this flaw?  How are player supposed to know that the system is flawed?

You can not take the assumtion that everyone who profitted from the flaw did it while fully understanding it was broken.  Even if they did its the designers fault for not spending the time to fix the issue before they sold their product.

Banning people for this type of situation is just arrogance on behalf of Funcom.  They think they can blanket ban people and fix it later without recourse.  You destroy guilds by doing things like this.  You make people not want to play anymore.  Personally if I am playing a game and the designers decide to ban me because I found some unfair advantage in a game that they didn't fix fast enough I will never play that game again.  Sending me a warning first so that I know what I am doing is not working as intended is what I would expect.  If I continued to utilize the flaw after being warned then a ban would be justified.  But to just ban people out of the blue because your game is broken is pure ass-hattery.

Were do most of you flamer/fanbois live?  Do none of you go by Innocent till proven guilty?

There is no reason what so ever to not trust the OP.  It has thrown me off the bridge of not buying or trying the game its bug ridden and devs/gms don't care about their player community.

Its been shown with gms contacting players for Group PvP whats with that.  Threats of bans for pking people.  And on top of that they have to take down sertin features in the game because they are able to be used to exploit? 

This game sounds nothing more than a huge beta, and theres no way im paying to play nore, am i going to give FC the chance to call me a hacker/exploiter then make their decicsion if i really was or was not.

You guys need to stop being do damn hot headed.  FC is doing horrible, this game the way its going is going to be the biggest failure ever.