General Discussion

I have said this before, but feel it really needs to be emphasized in its own thread.  The glory of the earlier MMO's was because you truly felt "fear", "relief", and "elation."

There was a stinging death penalty where you lost experience points or your gear was looted by someone else that may the prospect of dying scary.   To be killed in a deep dark dungeon was really frightening.  How would you ever get your gear back from your corpse.  Going to a nasty dungeon required not just being of a certain level, but required a certain amount of courage from the player.

If you take "fear" out of the equation, then everything becomes relaxed and boring.  Rewards don't feel like rewards.  Whether you are in a town or the wilderness or a dungeon doesn't feel much different.

Death needs to sting.  Towns need to feel safe.  Being in a group for mutual survival needs to feel safe.

When Blizzard eliminated the death penalty in early design because dying wasn't "fun", they failed to realize that staying alive in a world with a stinging death penalty is VERY fun.  Even watching someone else bite the bullet in such a game world has its own wicked fun built in.  (Oh, don't tell me that you early EQ'ers never chuckled when someone else was killed by a train.)

There is a giddy excitement and a feeling of immersion in a PVE game world in which death stings.  This may be why PVP has such a following.

Still th number one thing that keeps me playing and PVPing in eve online. If you fly a decent kittedout ship dying actually means something. It's not just respawning. Even if you are filthy rich it will take you a while until you replaced your loss.

PVPing without serious penalty when loosing just feels shallow to me. It's not fun at all.

Originally posted by Thoemse

Still th number one thing that keeps me playing and PVPing in eve online. If you fly a decent kittedout ship dying actually means something. It's not just respawning. Even if you are filthy rich it will take you a while until you replaced your loss.

PVPing without serious penalty when loosing just feels shallow to me. It's not fun at all.

I agree.  Without any risk, rewards seem meaningless. 

Take the UO game, for example,  Everyone I ever talked to praises that game like it's the best gaming experience they ever had.  I always looked at the dated graphics and scratched my head.  It's got to be the adrenalin thing; freedom to make choices and fear of dying.  That is just as important in good PVE as in good PVP.

We just have to wait for the community to grasp the idea. Maybe in 20 or 30 years, with luck.

Originally posted by altairzq

We just have to wait for the community to grasp the idea. Maybe in 20 or 30 years, with luck.

Haha, so true.

Originally posted by pencilrick
[...]

This may be why PVP has such a following.

You are saying this based in what numbers/stats/info...?

That's your opinion.

Originally posted by ianubisi

That's your opinion.

When you are afraid, you are exicted. When you are excited, you are not bored.  When the fear passes, you feel elated.  If you achieved something, a reward perhaps, from whatever experienced caused you this fear, then that reward is probably more valued than if you had aquired it while being bored.

Are not the above statements generally true?

An example:  Take a couple of  different haunted houses during Halloween?  Is not the one with the chainsaw wielding maniac who jumps out at you from the darkness more fun than the one that has Casper the Friendly Ghost?

There has to be something to what I'm saying.

Originally posted by gath

Originally posted by pencilrick
[...]

This may be why PVP has such a following.

You are saying this based in what numbers/stats/info...?

Just look at the anticipation and rating for the upcomign Warhammer.

Originally posted by pencilrick

 

Originally posted by ianubisi

That's your opinion.

I think both my opinion and somewhat true.

 

When you are afraid, you are exicted. When you are excited, you are not bored.  When the fear passes, you feel elated.  If you achieved something, a reward perhaps, from whatever experienced caused you this fear, then that reward is probably more valued than if you had aquired it while being bored.

Are not the above statements generally true?

An example:  Take a couple of  different haunted houses during Halloween?  Is not the one with the chainsaw wielding maniac who jumps out at you from the darkness more fun than the one that has Casper the Friendly Ghost?

There has to be something to what I'm saying.

A mental patient was hitting himself in the head with a large wooden board. He would hit, stop for some seconds, then hit again.

Another patient came along and asked what he was doing.

The first patient replyed: i'm having pleasure.

The 2nd asked how was he having pleasure by hitting himself with a wooden board.

The 1st replyed: it hurts when i hit, but feels so good in between hits.