Star Wars Galaxies

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Originally posted by ummax

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Originally posted by ArcAngel3

 
Should current and former player respect one another?  I think so.  Former players lost their game and community.  Current players are afraid to lose theirs.  That's common ground for me.  What I don't respect is the poor management of the StarWars Galaxies game and player communities by the parent companies.   Destroying something that one target audience was invested in, then building something out of the wreckage and offering it to another target audience was an extremely divisive management strategy.  It has had the exact result that a clear thinking management team would have predicted.

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I am both and I am actualy tired of being slammed as a vet who decided to return to the game and actualy found it fun. That's what this post is about.

"ummax likes dummed down games better"
"ummax is not a vet because they play the game now"
'ummax must work for soe"
"ummax is an idiot"

I'm kinda tired of hearing it from people who go to the other forum from the vet forum with the same tired arguments over and over again. That and the demands for proof. So as I said before that game is gone. I liked it yes, but I like the present one too possibly even better to be honest as I find more and more content and things to do when I dont want to pvp. I actualy experience far less bugs then I did back then. Many people complain of rubber banding even those I am playing with and I hate to say it I think its associated to their ISP and not sony because well I dont rubber band. I remember I used to /sit on the floor in the med center (i was a combat medic trying to level up) and one minute I would be on one end of the med center and another minute I will visibly slide across the floor to the other end of the room. That stuff is gone. I hate that this was brought to this subforum as I try to stay out of here to be honest lol its like going into a den of wolves at times so I rarely post in this forum and have said like 2 things in this forum. Anyhow to me its over I truly don't understand how you can become embroiled in the fabric of a game to mourn its loss for three years and twist every single thing to your point of view even if it is in fact the opposite. Here is the bottom line if I have made a generalization its a generalization about vets using this forum not about vets "in general" because I play with many vets and I am a vet. My generalization is this. There is a small fraction of the SWG community that has become somehow married to the old version of the game and well the divorce was long over. I dont know how else to say it, but yeah I have come to a conclusion about vets who use this forum and it is that they can't let go. Not all vets are like that in fact I would say most are NOT like that. Only the ones that use this forum and continually post about "then and now" and how much better it was after such a long time. As I said I dont think either version is better then the other and if any version is better its possibly the present one. In the end though it does not matter one Iota its just a game and if you dont like it after 3 years its time to pick up another one or get a different hobby. Model plains or cars or play darts or something.. I dunno /shrugs

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Originally posted by boognish75

The conclusion is that when it came out it was the first starwars mmo and the only starwars mmo, so people flocked to it, it had bad reviews then and was a mess some people left, and some people stayed and got used to it as the broken crap it was, and when it changed to the cu the balance and all the fixes and making it the way it should have been threw everyonwe off as sudden as it happened, it is much better play wise than it was before, we were just used to it being broke and buggy and exploitable so it became the norm and a change from a persons normal state whether they are used to it being broke or wrong, it feels comfortable, and fixing the game needed a complete overhaul to fix and this disturbed many peoples comfort zone they had with the game, that being after a year of playing a broke junky game we came comfortable with and it being the only starwars mmo is what flocked so many people at first, the people were slowly dropping off pre-cu/nge i seen my guild dwindle way before cu/nge.

Did we bitch and moan about bugs? Yepper. What did we say about them? Fix them. Did we say kill off the majority of the professions, the game mechanics and inflict upon us a  mess of new bugs? Nope. No mmo in the world is ever going to repeat such an epic attempt at failure to listen to their playerbase mainly due to Sony's catastrophic intended errors.

And as for your guild slowly dropping off - I agree. It was a trickle du to SOE not fixing bugs and not adding content. However, its been an exodus on the scale of a river since they implemented the craptastic NGE.

Originally posted by boognish75

The conclusion is that when it came out it was the first starwars mmo and the only starwars mmo, so people flocked to it, it had bad reviews then and was a mess some people left, and some people stayed and got used to it as the broken crap it was, and when it changed to the cu the balance and all the fixes and making it the way it should have been threw everyonwe off as sudden as it happened, it is much better play wise than it was before, we were just used to it being broke and buggy and exploitable so it became the norm and a change from a persons normal state whether they are used to it being broke or wrong, it feels comfortable, and fixing the game needed a complete overhaul to fix and this disturbed many peoples comfort zone they had with the game, that being after a year of playing a broke junky game we came comfortable with and it being the only starwars mmo is what flocked so many people at first, the people were slowly dropping off pre-cu/nge i seen my guild dwindle way before cu/nge.

And that was just the combat side of things. Entertainers were gutted to near-worthlessness by removing most of their in-game purpose. Crafting was severely dumbed-down. A "good low-level weapon" became an oxymoron. Food buffs became pretty pointless, many having the same effects and the ability to mix-n-match mostly gone. Medical crafting was devastated, and a good chunk of the organics-supply economy with it. Many players quit over that, and at least one website devoted to SWG medical crafting died as soon as CU went live.

Originally posted by ummax

 

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Originally posted by ArcAngel3

 

 
Should current and former player respect one another?  I think so.  Former players lost their game and community.  Current players are afraid to lose theirs.  That's common ground for me.  What I don't respect is the poor management of the StarWars Galaxies game and player communities by the parent companies.   Destroying something that one target audience was invested in, then building something out of the wreckage and offering it to another target audience was an extremely divisive management strategy.  It has had the exact result that a clear thinking management team would have predicted.

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I am both and I am actualy tired of being slammed as a vet who decided to return to the game and actualy found it fun. That's what this post is about.

 

"ummax likes dummed down games better"
"ummax is not a vet because they play the game now"
'ummax must work for soe"
"ummax is an idiot"

I'm kinda tired of hearing it from people who go to the other forum from the vet forum with the same tired arguments over and over again. That and the demands for proof. So as I said before that game is gone. I liked it yes, but I like the present one too possibly even better to be honest as I find more and more content and things to do when I dont want to pvp. I actualy experience far less bugs then I did back then. Many people complain of rubber banding even those I am playing with and I hate to say it I think its associated to their ISP and not sony because well I dont rubber band. I remember I used to /sit on the floor in the med center (i was a combat medic trying to level up) and one minute I would be on one end of the med center and another minute I will visibly slide across the floor to the other end of the room. That stuff is gone. I hate that this was brought to this subforum as I try to stay out of here to be honest lol its like going into a den of wolves at times so I rarely post in this forum and have said like 2 things in this forum. Anyhow to me its over I truly don't understand how you can become embroiled in the fabric of a game to mourn its loss for three years and twist every single thing to your point of view even if it is in fact the opposite. Here is the bottom line if I have made a generalization its a generalization about vets using this forum not about vets "in general" because I play with many vets and I am a vet. My generalization is this. There is a small fraction of the SWG community that has become somehow married to the old version of the game and well the divorce was long over. I dont know how else to say it, but yeah I have come to a conclusion about vets who use this forum and it is that they can't let go. Not all vets are like that in fact I would say most are NOT like that. Only the ones that use this forum and continually post about "then and now" and how much better it was after such a long time. As I said I dont think either version is better then the other and if any version is better its possibly the present one. In the end though it does not matter one Iota its just a game and if you dont like it after 3 years its time to pick up another one or get a different hobby. Model plains or cars or play darts or something.. I dunno /shrugs

 

I suppose some people may talk about issues because they haven't let go of the game and/or communty.  Grief looks different for people, and sometimes takes longer for some than others.   In my experience, however, many people have let go of the game.  They post to correct what they see as revisions of history that deny their experience.  I plan to respond to one of those shortly, as a matter of fact.

People have lots of reasons to post from wanting to hold SOE and LA to a higher standard, to wanting to warn people about how players have been treated by them.  I can understand that and sometimes share those motivations.  If SOE and LA promised to make fixing collision detection a priority, which they did, and it's still not fixed, which it isn't, well I think consumer's have a right to know that.  If Smed promised to fast track server mergers, which he did, and they haven't happened, again people have a right to know.  If SOE took sub fees from people for the ToOW, which they did, and then borked the expansion and kept the sub fees, once again, people have a right to know.  The message here is, if you deal with SOE and LA in this game, this is what we experienced, and you may be treated the same way.  We'd like to spare you some suffering if possible. 

In all of these instance, I think people have "let go" of the game so to speak.  What they may have grabbed onto is a desire for a higher standard of service in this MMO and a desire to spare people a lot of frustration and disappointment.

Originally posted by boognish75

Originally posted by kefkah

Scoreboard.

PreCU: 200,000+

NGE: Under 50,000 (I had my coffee and felt generous).

From these numbers, many conclusions can be drawn and further questions raised. One of which is that if PreCU was so bad, laggy and unplayable - how could that many people keep playing it? And next question, if it was that unplayable - how could I have kept playing it?

 

The conclusion is that when it came out it was the first starwars mmo and the only starwars mmo, so people flocked to it, it had bad reviews then and was a mess some people left, and some people stayed and got used to it as the broken crap it was, and when it changed to the cu the balance and all the fixes and making it the way it should have been threw everyonwe off as sudden as it happened, it is much better play wise than it was before, we were just used to it being broke and buggy and exploitable so it became the norm and a change from a persons normal state whether they are used to it being broke or wrong, it feels comfortable, and fixing the game needed a complete overhaul to fix and this disturbed many peoples comfort zone they had with the game, that being after a year of playing a broke junky game we came comfortable with and it being the only starwars mmo is what flocked so many people at first, the people were slowly dropping off pre-cu/nge i seen my guild dwindle way before cu/nge.

People were upset not because of change, but because they were knowlingly misled.  They were just promised revamps for a number of professions, and new creatures on a new planet to tame.  They purchased an expansion and many purchased additional subscription time to play it.  Immediately after the payment for the expansion was accepted, the revamped professions were ALL deleted, as was the profession that could tame the creatures.  People weren't upset about change in general, they were upset that they just paid for something and then had it deleted out from under them.  They were more upset when they found out that this plan had been in the works for some time, and yet SOE and LA both chose not to inform people until after they took people's cash.  This was simply outrageous.  If you add to that the negating of all progress on unlocking jedi, the removal of pets, and the breaking of all core game systems, including chat, movement and combat, you'll get a much more accurate picture of why people were truly upset.

To say that people were upset because they don't like change, ignores all of the real reasons for their outrage.  It's an attempt to revise history in such a way that all contact with reality must be abandoned.

Originally posted by CasualMaker

 

Originally posted by boognish75

The conclusion is that when it came out it was the first starwars mmo and the only starwars mmo, so people flocked to it, it had bad reviews then and was a mess some people left, and some people stayed and got used to it as the broken crap it was, and when it changed to the cu the balance and all the fixes and making it the way it should have been threw everyonwe off as sudden as it happened, it is much better play wise than it was before, we were just used to it being broke and buggy and exploitable so it became the norm and a change from a persons normal state whether they are used to it being broke or wrong, it feels comfortable, and fixing the game needed a complete overhaul to fix and this disturbed many peoples comfort zone they had with the game, that being after a year of playing a broke junky game we came comfortable with and it being the only starwars mmo is what flocked so many people at first, the people were slowly dropping off pre-cu/nge i seen my guild dwindle way before cu/nge.

The CU did not "make the game the way it should have been". I'll grant you that it fixed a few things that didn't work so well, but it broke far more than it fixed. Making the game narrower and more shallow (a policy continued with a vengence in NGE) was no improvement. A complete overhaul was unnecessary and counterproductive, since most of the major issues could have been fixed with much smaller changes. Inserting levels and setting them up to utterly dominate the combat equation was horrific; it instantly put many players at a severe disadvantage. Also, it effectively removed a lot of what limited content there was because anything more than a handful of levels above or below you became either worthless or lethal.

 

And that was just the combat side of things. Entertainers were gutted to near-worthlessness by removing most of their in-game purpose. Crafting was severely dumbed-down. A "good low-level weapon" became an oxymoron. Food buffs became pretty pointless, many having the same effects and the ability to mix-n-match mostly gone. Medical crafting was devastated, and a good chunk of the organics-supply economy with it. Many players quit over that, and at least one website devoted to SWG medical crafting died as soon as CU went live.

In fact, people were asking for change, and working collaboratively with devs to fix the bugs and issues of the original game format.  It appeared as though all of this collaborative work towards positive change was flushed down the crapper when some management people decided to copy an competitior's product, copy it quickly, and copy it poorly.

If the positive changes being worked on would have been implemented, then yes you would have seen some people uncomfortable with change in general, but you would have seen many more who appreciated a better functioning game.  SOE and LA abandoned this course quite intentionally, and you've seen the impact their decisions have had.  People aren't going to sit silently and allow you to deny reality in an attempt to justify SOE and LA's horrible management of their game and treatment of their players.

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Originally posted by ArcAngel3

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Originally posted by boognish75

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Originally posted by kefkah

Scoreboard.
PreCU: 200,000+
NGE: Under 50,000 (I had my coffee and felt generous).
From these numbers, many conclusions can be drawn and further questions raised. One of which is that if PreCU was so bad, laggy and unplayable - how could that many people keep playing it? And next question, if it was that unplayable - how could I have kept playing it?
 

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The conclusion is that when it came out it was the first starwars mmo and the only starwars mmo, so people flocked to it, it had bad reviews then and was a mess some people left, and some people stayed and got used to it as the broken crap it was, and when it changed to the cu the balance and all the fixes and making it the way it should have been threw everyonwe off as sudden as it happened, it is much better play wise than it was before, we were just used to it being broke and buggy and exploitable so it became the norm and a change from a persons normal state whether they are used to it being broke or wrong, it feels comfortable, and fixing the game needed a complete overhaul to fix and this disturbed many peoples comfort zone they had with the game, that being after a year of playing a broke junky game we came comfortable with and it being the only starwars mmo is what flocked so many people at first, the people were slowly dropping off pre-cu/nge i seen my guild dwindle way before cu/nge.

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This post reminds me so much of Julio's claims that people were so upset about the NGE because people are simply resistant to change, even if it's for the better.  People's general resistance to change is completely irrelelvant to the NGE, and here's why:
People were upset not because of change, but because they were knowlingly misled.  They were just promised revamps for a number of professions, and new creatures on a new planet to tame.  They purchased an expansion and many purchased additional subscription time to play it.  Immediately after the payment for the expansion was accepted, the revamped professions were ALL deleted, as was the profession that could tame the creatures.  People weren't upset about change in general, they were upset that they just paid for something and then had it deleted out from under them.  They were more upset when they found out that this plan had been in the works for some time, and yet SOE and LA both chose not to inform people until after they took people's cash.  This was simply outrageous.  If you add to that the negating of all progress on unlocking jedi, the removal of pets, and the breaking of all core game systems, including chat, movement and combat, you'll get a much more accurate picture of why