General Discussion

I have played too many MMORPGs.  I have spent thousands of dollars for MMORPG to 1) play games, 2) finance multiple accounts, 3) purchase items/gold online, 4) upgrade my PC(s), and 5) other.

Why are MMORPGS bad?  Unlike, say, GTA IV, I do not feel free in them - I feel forced. 

• Developers force us to complete their so-called quests to 1) obtain gear, 2) level-up, and 3) progress in the game. Why can't I progress in my own way? 
• Our end-game options seems to be 1) raid or 2) PvP.  Why can't I do more solo, group, and other activities such as building a town, continued character-customization/development, and much more?

But whose fault is that?  Whose responsible for boring gameplay, forced-linear raiding, and PvP?

As long as you pay/play, the "fault" is always yours (and mine).

D) Both

Developers for rushing unfinished products to market that are not designed to be fun, but rather designed to draw out play time.

Players for not standing up and voting with their wallets against terrible products and dishonest companies.

I agree that it's both. Consider that many of us operate on the assumption that games or any piece of software is easy to design and debug, thus we demand that we get these games faster and with more content. So, when reality meets assumptions, and reality wins, then we feel that the developers have "let us down" not realizing our assumptions were too high and our demands too hard to meet in a single development cycle.

-- Brede

It's gamers fault.  10 millions peoples bought WOW, can we assume the market for this type of game is healthy ?  No wonders all the others mmo's are WOW clones, devs are not stupid, they don't want to make a game with innovative stuff that only a minority will appreciate.

See Pirates of Burning Sea, Auto-Assault.....

Originally posted by declaredemer

I have played too many MMORPGs.  I have spent thousands of dollars for MMORPG to 1) play games, 2) finance multiple accounts, 3) purchase items/gold online, 4) upgrade my PC(s), and 5) other.

  Why are MMORPGS bad?  Unlike, say, GTA IV, I do not feel free in them - I feel forced. 

• Developers force us to complete their so-called quests to 1) obtain gear, 2) level-up, and 3) progress in the game. Why can't I progress in my own way? 
• Our end-game options seems to be 1) raid or 2) PvP.  Why can't I do more solo, group, and other activities such as building a town, continued character-customization/development, and much more?

 

But whose fault is that?  Whose responsible for boring gameplay, forced-linear raiding, and PvP?

Both.  I've not played GTA IV so I can't comment on it.  But I'd venture to say that in the long run there is no purpose to GTA IV, so you'll leave it once you've experienced the content.

MMORPG's should have a purpose, and game developers try to provide it with their quests, raids and PVP.

You sound like you're looking for a good sandbox-type game, but sadly there's' few of them out there.  EVE does a great job IMO of giving a player the freedom to pursue whatever goals he so choses, yet you'd be surprised how many people can't deal with the freedom. 

They need the game to lead them through it.   Its a shame really, because there is so much fun in developing your character one way, then suddenly changing interests and pursing something else.

The problem is money. Can't risk spending time and money, and they should have to. We have to have better distributors. The ones we have now is to money hungry, wont take any risks which slows down production of innovative games.

Originally posted by Kyleran

 

Originally posted by declaredemer

I have played too many MMORPGs.  I have spent thousands of dollars for MMORPG to 1) play games, 2) finance multiple accounts, 3) purchase items/gold online, 4) upgrade my PC(s), and 5) other.

  Why are MMORPGS bad?  Unlike, say, GTA IV, I do not feel free in them - I feel forced. 

• Developers force us to complete their so-called quests to 1) obtain gear, 2) level-up, and 3) progress in the game. Why can't I progress in my own way? 
• Our end-game options seems to be 1) raid or 2) PvP.  Why can't I do more solo, group, and other activities such as building a town, continued character-customization/development, and much more?

 

But whose fault is that?  Whose responsible for boring gameplay, forced-linear raiding, and PvP?

 

Both.  I've not played GTA IV so I can't comment on it.  But I'd venture to say that in the long run there is no purpose to GTA IV, so you'll leave it once you've experienced the content.

MMORPG's should have a purpose, and game developers try to provide it with their quests, raids and PVP.

You sound like you're looking for a good sandbox-type game, but sadly there's' few of them out there.  EVE does a great job IMO of giving a player the freedom to pursue whatever goals he so choses, yet you'd be surprised how many people can't deal with the freedom. 

They need the game to lead them through it.   Its a shame really, because there is so much fun in developing your character one way, then suddenly changing interests and pursing something else.

 

I'm sorry Kyleran but I don't really agree. At least with your asertion that "they need the game to lead them through it", and therefore that's "a shame".

that is makeing the statement that anyone wanting or finding enjoyable a different experience is somewhat lesser.

But that's not the case at all. Furthermore, I think it's hubris for someone to imply that if others don't find what I find enjoyable then they are somehow lesser.

We read books and those are linnear. We watch movies and they are linnear. The music we listen to (I bet dollars to donuts) is usualy bound to one key signature... possible making a move to the dominant or modulation a third up.

Essentially, humanity has a bell curve and a good many of us fall in that bell curve. And sometimes some don't but there are aspects of their lives that do.

So should someone like me make the statment "it's a shame that they require tonality in their music and require sale time signatures in order to make it good." Nonsense. There is just as much a call for tonal 4/4 music, and good tonal 4/4 music as there is for other straight forward entertaiment/media.

There is nothing wrong with liking/wanting a linear game or one that has a linear aspect. It is only one type of mode that games fall into.

So quite frankly, perhaps it's the players fault. And I use "fault" lightly. If players didn't purchase these games then the game makers wouldn't make them. End of subject. If there is no market then there is no market.

But players want to play games as "games'. The group of people who want large, sandbox, open worlds has always been small. They just don't realize it because at the time they were playing, they were it and the games were few.

Suddenly there are so many more games and also more people playing them. These people have lives and are most likely not "gamers".

None of my friends would ever play an online game, even one like WoW because they fiind the idea of spending that much time in a video game a waste. Most people are like this. though gaming is a bit more mainstream, you really aren't going to find many people who understand. So when a game such as wow is able to attract a lot of non-gamers then suddenly a market opens up.

If the majority of players wanted sandbox games there would be sandbox games. But where are they? It seems that the early games made the decision to change because they had to. Ryzom was always there and it just couldn't survive. You have EvE but I wonder if it survives because it is one of the few space games and a space game that has pvp. Niche market. And remember, they started out small.

So if players want sandbox games then I suggest you find them and support them. But in the end, businesses make things for the customer to buy. If the customer doesn't buy it they can't stay in business.

I highly doubt any of you work for a company that can accept yearly losses and still stay in business. I'm pretty sure your companies have to do whatever it takes in order to maintain their customer base. And that is probably by offering a service that is needed.

Game companies are no different.