General Discussion

Originally posted by deviliscious

yes lol where on one character you can do everything the game has to offer and do as much of it or as little of it you want.  Player freedoms is what is missing most from new games.

That may sound cool, but it's too impractical.  Skills are built upon other related skills.  A person doesn't become a great musician by playing football.  They have to practice their art long and hard.  By the same token, a character who wants to be a master fighter doesn't do so by reading a spell book and vice-versa.  That's why no character should be able to learn all things in the scope of a single game.  They must specialze.  That's why there are classes.  Whether skill-based or level-based, classes are a good thing.

Originally posted by Zindaihas

 

Originally posted by deviliscious

yes lol where on one character you can do everything the game has to offer and do as much of it or as little of it you want.  Player freedoms is what is missing most from new games.

 

That may sound cool, but it's too impractical.  Skills are built upon other related skills.  A person doesn't become a great musician by playing football.  They have to practice their art long and hard.  By the same token, a character who wants to be a master fighter doesn't do so by reading a spell book and vice-versa.  That's why no character should be able to learn all things in the scope of a single game.  They must specialze.  That's why there are classes.  Whether skill-based or level-based, classes are a good thing.

No they are not! they are limiting factors that  force you to make choices rather than allow you to just do what you want to do.  what you say about musician playing football .. no you train what you want to become what you want and have the capabilities to train them all. yes there are games out there that do this but have other factors that make them not good games.  Having classes add too much predictablity to  the strengths and weaknesses of those classes rather than  not knowing what your oppenent is capable of.  Your explaination of why this cannot be done does not make sense .. espcially since it has been done, just not on current games.  If  what a player can and cannot do is not determined by appearance than you have no idea what that player will do in battle taking combat to another level entirely.  The whole see an elf know how to counter thing gets boring and  predictable. When any player can look like anything they want but yet can mage in range gear brings a level of unpredictabilty to the table that is lost in most of these games.Just because they ranged you doesn't mean they are not going to melee you  and mage you all in  the same fight. that kind of switching of tactics allows for more exciting pvp.   Allowing all players to train  and use any of all skills in game allows for maximum enjoyment  of one character rather than having to train  many to accomplish this. If you want to be good at football train football .. but then if you want to be a good muscian take guitar lessons as well.. who is to say that just because you are a good football player doesn;t mean you can't take music too? that is ridiculous.

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Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Zindaihas

 

Originally posted by deviliscious

yes lol where on one character you can do everything the game has to offer and do as much of it or as little of it you want.  Player freedoms is what is missing most from new games.

 

That may sound cool, but it's too impractical.  Skills are built upon other related skills.  A person doesn't become a great musician by playing football.  They have to practice their art long and hard.  By the same token, a character who wants to be a master fighter doesn't do so by reading a spell book and vice-versa.  That's why no character should be able to learn all things in the scope of a single game.  They must specialze.  That's why there are classes.  Whether skill-based or level-based, classes are a good thing.

No they are not! they are limiting factors that  force you to make choices rather than allow you to just do what you want to do.  what you say about musician playing football .. no you train what you want to become what you want and have the capabilities to train them all. yes there are games out there that do this but have other factors that make them not good games.  Having classes add too much predictablity to  the strengths and weaknesses of those classes rather than  not knowing what your oppenent is capable of.  Your explaination of why this cannot be done does not make sense .. espcially since it has been done, just not on current games.  If  what a player can and cannot do is not determined by appearance than you have no idea what that player will do in battle taking combat to another level entirely.  The whole see an elf know how to counter thing gets boring and  predictable. When any player can look like anything they want but yet can mage in range gear brings a level of unpredictabilty to the table that is lost in most of these games.Just because they ranged you doesn't mean they are not going to melee you  and mage you all in  the same fight. that kind of switching of tactics allows for more exciting pvp.   Allowing all players to train  and use any of all skills in game allows for maximum enjoyment  of one character rather than having to train  many to accomplish this. If you want to be good at football train football .. but then if you want to be a good muscian take guitar lessons as well.. who is to say that just because you are a good football player doesn;t mean you can't take music too? that is ridiculous.

Look, I can rebute your argument with one sentence.  If you allow every character to learn every single skill in a game, then every character would essentially be identical, would they not?  What could possibly be fun about that?  In a PvP game, every person you fought would be a mirror image of you.  You say you know what to exactly what to expect when fight a mage or a warrior or a rogue, but I say it takes more skill and more talent to learn the strengths and weaknesses of each class so you can fight each character differently.

Not sure if this has been done already but i really would like to see pure support classes that has nothing to do with the actual combat or healing of players. In SWG they had their Image Designer and Entertainer classes, so i guess it has been done. What i am looking for are several classes whose soul task is to support the war effort and help their race in all different matters.

These could be builders, crafters, politicians, spies, supply and logistics, entertainers, designers of all sorts, city planers, security and so on...

For me, having a sense of involvement as a key roll is more important than the thrill of direct engagement in combat. For example: if my race/clans city is functional and safe due to the things i do, i would be very happy with that role because without me and other like myself - the race/clan could not work efficiently and thus risk loosing the war in the long run.

One other thing that could be nice is to have, not classes as such, but an possibility for people that are not into gaming to be able to take the role as NPCs within the game world. They would have very limited functions other than to fill the world with actual players. They could spend their days running around, perhaps guiding people, chatting with eachother and so on. I do however see some risks and problem deriving from this. One is that everyone of these "extras" would need to behave and be in character for the role. Also, the amount of active players per server would greatly increase and thus putting a heavy load on the servers.

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Look, I can rebute your argument with one sentence.  If you allow every character to learn every single skill in a game, then every character would essentially be identical, would they not?  What could possibly be fun about that?  In a PvP game, every person you fought would be a mirror image of you.  You say you know what to exactly what to expect when fight a mage or a warrior or a rogue, but I say it takes more skill and more talent to learn the strengths and weaknesses of each class so you can fight each character differently.

Memorization is not skill or talent.. and I usually have every class memorized after the first couple of times of fighting it. .. so to me that is boring, and even though every character has the opportunity totrain all skills they do not, so no not every character you fight is the same. And since any player would be capable of doing anything in battle you have no way of predicting exactly what they will do, or the order that they will do it in. That level of unpredictability in modern games is lost.  As long as the skills themselves are plentiful enough and strong enough  then the combos for one character would seem limitless.... it is like this, if someone breaks into your home to attack you you cannot know whether or not they will shoot you, stab you, or do nothing .. and the robber has no idea whether you are going to scream, call the police, or spray them with spray paint and set them on fire... the point being is that in real life we are only limited by physical ability, intelligence, and financial means.. why in games are we even more restricted?  What is the fun of playing games where all your choices are removed?  

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