General Discussion

Originally posted by Josher

I hope you don't beleive most people would find gathering all the materials just to go on a simple play session FUN.  They just want to go play, you know, a videgame.  People would rather buy the arrows from a vendor, then go kill some mosters.  All the tedium building up to just going out on a simple hunt is what most people DO NOT WANT TO DO anymore.  They just want to hunt and have fun.  Hard to beleive I know;)

By the way, I could mine ore and smelt them into bars, gather herbs, feathers, skins & other materials while fighting with other players, to go make a cool bow in WOW if a wanted...all the while, I'm chatting with friends, buying and selling items on the AH.  The difference is, doing all those things in WOW is a whole lot more fun for people than in older MMOs.  Yes, hard to beleive.

Your rosey goggles are quite thick sir=)  Gotta love how people remember their first time so fondly and beleive the gameplay was actually good.  Doom seemed great back in 93' or so, but it sure sucks now.

 

I played wow .. it isn't all that fun once you max it gets old.... I am a woman not a sir. tyvm.. and don't knock doom my friend is dating the ceo of that company  .. it is a good company. lol ps.. runescape was not my first mmorpg or my last.. lol

Originally posted by nethervoid

Originally posted by tempestormer

 

 

VG had legendary item quest chains, which were really tough and took a long time to complete. WoW only had a few epic chains, which really disappointed me. How far did you play into VG? I managed to get lvl 34 before I left. But in WoW I was one of the main healers for a BT/Hyjal guild and I dunno, max level was really dull in WoW after a while. If they offered a legendary item quest chain for every class, now THAT would spice things up.

Ah if VG had some 'epic weapon' type quests then it had one level more on questing than WoW did.  I got to about lv 25 before I called it quits (in VG).  I agree WoW needs some kind of epic weapon type questing.

You quit right before the good stuff starts. At level 28 you can start doing Heroic Quest chains, and then the legendary ones at 29-30 and beyond. Really fun stuff man

Originally posted by gillvane1

The other point is, why would I read the quest text, when it doesn't change the game?

Go kill 10X because.....

Why do I care about what the quest giver says after "because"? Will it make any difference whatsoever in the game? No, it will not. Will it be as riveting and well written as a single player game? No, it will not be, and if it was that would defeat the purpose of an online game. Why do I need to play with a bunch of people online, if I'm spending all my time reading these wonderful quest stories? I could do that offline by myself.

 

 

This is not the pinnacle of MMO design...its just cheap, easy content. 

Originally posted by deviliscious
Stuff

For some examples:

1. Explain how the threat system works in both EQ and Runescape
2. Explain the raid system in Runescape
3. How many polys are you working with in Runescape ... now how many in VG? AoC?  (level of animation complexity)
4. How long does it take to build a new town in a game like Runescape vs WoW or VG?  (number of placables and difference between 2D and 3D mesh)
5. Explain how you balance a skill system without classes so that everyone isn't running around with the same skillset? (tank-mage problem from UO)  Is it easier to balance 100 skills or 7 classes?

In Runescape (and to a lesser extent UO had this same thing) it was very easy to program in a lot of different systems because 1. They were working with very simple systems and 2. The graphics didn't take a lot of time to work with.

Runescape is not a big-league project.  It's small peanuts.  Working on extremely dated graphics and systems that are no longer in use in blockbuster MMOs of today.  You cannot compare Runescape to any modern mainstream MMO.  It's like comparing a '74 Stingray to a '99 Viper.

I think you had THE epiphany.

My biggest question is why ppl pay solo MassiveMultimplayerORPGs when they could be doing it for much less offline...?

Originally posted by nethervoid

 

Originally posted by deviliscious
Stuff

You debase your whole argument when you compare the Runescape project to any of the heavy hitters like EQ or WoW.  Runescape is a collection of very basic systems working together.  Along with the very, very dated graphics.  There's far more to a modern MMO project than just a collection of simple systems working together.

 

For some examples:

1. Explain how the threat system works in both EQ and Runescape
2. Explain the raid system in Runescape
3. How many polys are you working with in Runescape ... now how many in VG? AoC?  (level of animation complexity)
4. How long does it take to build a new town in a game like Runescape vs WoW or VG?  (number of placables and difference between 2D and 3D mesh)
5. Explain how you balance a skill system without classes so that everyone isn't running around with the same skillset? (tank-mage problem from UO)  Is it easier to balance 100 skills or 7 classes?

In Runescape (and to a lesser extent UO had this same thing) it was very easy to program in a lot of different systems because 1. They were working with very simple systems and 2. The graphics didn't take a lot of time to work with.

Runescape is not a big-league project.  It's small peanuts.  Working on extremely dated graphics and systems that are no longer in use in blockbuster MMOs of today.  You cannot compare Runescape to any modern mainstream MMO.  It's like comparing a '74 Stingray to a '99 Viper.

I am not a programmer... nor do I pretend to be. It is the concepts we are talking about here not how things are programmed. How is it so different in programming to have quests involve players than pvp combat as it is in it's current state? To raid a dungeon in runescape you get a group of players and go out to the wilderness and kill a king black dragon, usually all players being on headset so that they can communicate with each other easier... 

 Yes things are much easier to create on old systems but they are not impossible on new syetems. In runescape not everyone did the same thing in battle with the same skills available .. They maged ranged meleed and now summoning but the point being you could do this all on one character the way they did it was mage beats melee, melee beats range , range beats mage.. but you could expand that concept easily by adding  more skills that counter each other.  anyhow you could range in mage gear mage in melee gear  and yes it would affect bonuses but could still be done effiently. As long as all skills are made strong enough and plentiful enough you would never know the combination that was going to be used at any given time.  game balance has nothing to do with whether it is an old system or a new one or a heavy hitter or small peanuts. In the wilderness even though you had all skills available on each player, not everyone used the same thing at the same time. You would see melee rangers, melee magers, and mage rangers because everyone likes to do differnt things at different times.

trying to say that games  have to have classes to be balanced is false, and balance in itself is an illusion simply because no matter how hard you try to balance a game you will still have players that are just not very good and ones that are very effective in combat., and the losers will always complain. Trying to focus a game on solving that problem is futile and limiting the game for the sake of it is madness. In reality isn;t balanced .. I do not see why this has become such a focus of developers, even at the cost of the games fun. Runescape is a 3d game if you were not aware, but yes It does have poor dated graphics, basing a game on graphics alone is a common disease. Having all the beautiful artwork in the world on a game without the content is a terrible waste.  Pretty to look at but why bother touching it? 

 Now wow didn;t go the route of the "best graphics" and they went with more of a cartoonish feel but it is still beating everyone else in sales. trying to compare runescape to AoC in a graphics is silly. No one plays runescape for it's graphics.. they play it when they are bored of killing because it has skills that the other games are not offering. It is amazing how many people actually play that game even with it's old  graphics , slow gameplay, and poor customer service.. imagine how many would play it if they corrected all those problems?  It is successful for what it is... if a game took the good from it and made it better.. it has the potential to be a great game.

Are you saying that the new systems are not capable of doing what the old systems were? If so that is not an imporvement .. that is a step backwards. I do believe the new systems are very much capable .. just  if people can get by with the bare minimum  they will.  They just need to stop being so lazy. lol

Yeah newer games mainly can't do what older games could do because the newer systems are far more complicated; therefore, costing a lot more in dev time, which equals money.

Yes it is an improvement because playing a warrior in WoW is a lot more complicated than playing a 'melee' in Runescape.  So it means I don't master it as quickly, hence I can play longer without getting bored of the class/skill I'm using.

Now pre-emptively I'm going to say that tanking as a warrior is a lot more difficult than tanking as a 'melee' in Runescape, because there are a lot more things to manage in WoW than in Runescape.

I think its just the current community is less social. you can still do alot of group stuff. but finding someone to do it with is pretty tough unless you have a friend or guildy. most random people just seem to want to be left alone, and don't want to group, even when I yell "we're doing the same quest it will we twice as quick if we group!". they'd still rather be antisocial and compete for the mob...

I didn't play EQ and those mentioned back then but I bet it was largely the community that made it feel more social.

Originally posted by Consensus

I think its just the current community is less social. you can still do alot of group stuff. but finding someone to do it with is pretty tough unless you have a friend or guildy. most random people just seem to want to be left alone, and don't want to group, even when I yell "we're doing the same quest it will we twice as quick if we group!". they'd still rather be antisocial and compete for the mob...

I didn't play EQ and those mentioned back then but I bet it was largely the community that made it feel more social.

Part of the problem is with modern games is it is harder to meet new players while out doing things ... in an entire pvp environment they are too busy killing each other to be friendlly... though I have met alot of my friends in that enviroment.  Standing around in towns is not a good way to create a social environment. People can find others with common interests while doing other activities in game much easier because of the relaxed enviroment.. Alot of players don;t want to get grouped with some random kid so they don't just group with anyone, they like to get to know a little about the people they group with before they get thrown into the quest/ mission with them.  I think everyone has been stuck in a group with people they really didn;t care for before .. and I don;t wish that upon my worst enemy.. it does suck that bad. That is why I am against games that force you to group .. and wish that games would have more activities available in game for everyone to do, that way people could meet each other in a better environment more casually, and give them time to become friends before jumpi