General Discussion

I hear many non-EQ fans complain about the long travel times and harsh death penalty, I was wondering if most or all MMOs which followed have become less harsh.  Another complaint I remember is the relatively long downtime between battles.

I never played UO, but I have heard that it is considered by many to be the harshest PvP MMO because of that fact that a player can loot all of the gear off a defeated opponent.

On the other end of the scale, would WoW be considered one of the most carebear (does carebear refer only to PvE games or does it apply to easy ones too) games on the market?

I would vote for AC instead.  As far as PvP harshness, I'm not certain, but I would definitely vote for AC Darktide as the best PvP.

Carebear usually only refers to non-PvP as opposed to ease of play.

Everquest was epic when it first came out and was fun. The harshest death penalties in my opinion was Lineage 2. Grind all day and if you die once you've lost the entire days grind.

Originally posted by Zindaihas

I hear many non-EQ fans complain about the long travel times and harsh death penalty, I was wondering if most or all MMOs which followed have become less harsh.  Another complaint I remember is the relatively long downtime between battles.

I never played UO, but I have heard that it is considered by many to be the harshest PvP MMO because of that fact that a player can loot all of the gear off a defeated opponent.

On the other end of the scale, would WoW be considered one of the most carebear (does carebear refer only to PvE games or does it apply to easy ones too) games on the market?

I would consider EQ1 hardcore due to the insane amounts of time players would spend in queue waiting for a spawn.  And while waiting is easy in it's own sense, the crazy amount of time spend made it hardcore.

As to the ultimate hardcore mmorpg?  FX11 or the Lineage ones seem very hardcore imo.

I can think of a game that was pretty damn harcore in it's early days, so hardcore in fact they have since nerfed it to crap, it's now an unplayable Carebear game.

FFXI is the most hardcore game imho.

i use to love to travel on the boats, trying to get a fair price for a teleport from a wiz or a druid, i loved getting killed on rallos and people stealing my patch work armor, it would make me train my skill making more ! i loved the pvp when a enchanter would charm some one and make them run in lava or guards.. there were good times then the dark clouds came.. the crying on the forums was to much !! there had to come changes to the game i loved... no its ok but not the same as it once was,  it how most MMO go now they make a game they think people will like then cave in to the crying people on the forums, couse people that love the game as is dont have time to run and jump on a forum to  read or post pages of crap !!

now games that are in development get nerfted even befor they launch !!!  no one wants to work in a game anymore they want to get on and get the best gear skills at lvl 1 !! kids today cant do anything without getting a reward, they lose there T ball games and get a reward !! they get rewards for sucking at every thing they do couse we dont want to hurt there feelings !!

let your kids put on there helmets and knee pads and make sure they do nothing that will hurt them couse that will get them ready for the real world..  every one knows we need to hide the truth from them couse it might make them question the bubble of reality you have put them in... and you wonder why so called normal kids go out and do stupid stuff... i though we were out of the dark ages... guess we just liked ignorence more then logic and the truth

Personally I think FFXI is the harshest.  Takes an inordinate amount of time to do anything in that game.

Originally posted by Drgnprpht999

Everquest was epic when it first came out and was fun. The harshest death penalties in my opinion was Lineage 2. Grind all day and if you die once you've lost the entire days grind.

I played both from inception, and Lineage 2 was a lot more unforgiving than EQ ever was, IMHO.  And boy, do I remember the all-day grinds, and then lose it all (and unbelievably precious equipment also) in one crazy death. 

Originally posted by Zindaihas

I hear many non-EQ fans complain about the long travel times and harsh death penalty, I was wondering if most or all MMOs which followed have become less harsh.  Another complaint I remember is the relatively long downtime between battles.

I never played UO, but I have heard that it is considered by many to be the harshest PvP MMO because of that fact that a player can loot all of the gear off a defeated opponent.

On the other end of the scale, would WoW be considered one of the most carebear (does carebear refer only to PvE games or does it apply to easy ones too) games on the market?

UO was pretty hardcore, until all the carebear updates.  after having played uo since it's inception until eq went live -- i wasn't able to take eq for more than a couple of months at a time.  eq added classes/leveling and raiding to the genre -- two definite negatives if you've ever played a game like uo, pre-cu swg, eve, ryzom, etc.

yes, ryzom has/had (is ryzom still alive even?) classes/levels, but you can train up in all of them. 

solo or group, eq just always had too many negatives for me, to be fun.  i made a dark elf originally, and it seems half my playtime was zoning and i'd go thru a bazillion zones just in the dark elf city.