World of Warcraft

Say what you want but casuals will never get the chance to expirience "the old" BWL and as for things geting easyer, well, did you see howmany heroes in full epics is runing around?!?!  It was only a matter of time before things get easyer and safer.

Imagine, what kind of a world would it be where there was constat battle, never ending, never showing signs of weaknes, it would be HELL!!

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War is Hell.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Nothing wrong with small and solo group content, but it is much easier the smaller the groups are.  The more people you add the more mechanics and tools the devs have at their disposal to throw against players, because there is not only room for every class, but room for multiples.  Love it or hate it, that is just the reality of how things in current MMOs can be built.

 I like Blizzards attempt to capture many styles of play and offer multiple avenues for people to play.  I may not like all of them, but that isn't what is intended.  Just that there is enough of some things to find enjoyable.  I hope more companies follow suit in their design theories. 

I guess the reality is you many of those posting here really do like an MMO dumbed-down to the the most casual common denominator, and that is OK, WoW is the perfect MMO for that - fun, polished, and with no real need to depend on anyone else. With epic 10 man raids - you really can solo this entire game now without any real social interaction.. (yes grouping for 2 hours and not even talking with strangers is solo'ing IMO.)

But this thread has gotten off topic I think... for a company that only releases an expansion every two years, it is sad to see just more of the same gimmics and instances re-introduced. Yes it is nice that more people will see NAXX, but it will never be the same as it was as a 40-man, and it was HARD.  And all raiders do not live in their basement with their mom...

On another point - the lore of the WOW IP has been broken beyond all repair.. so who really cares what they dream up...

Originally posted by sorcielle
I guess the reality is you many of those posting here really do like an MMO dumbed-down to the the most casual common denominator, and that is OK, WoW is the perfect MMO for that - fun, polished, and with no real need to depend on anyone else. With epic 10 man raids - you really can solo this entire game now without any real social interaction.. (yes grouping for 2 hours and not even talking with strangers is solo'ing IMO.)

 Yes, I would rather play a MMO that is actually FUN. The "hardcore" people like you have probably forgot what this thing called "fun" is but I will not play a MMO that takes pride in its archaic gameplay that punches you in the nuts at every opportunity.

And, no, grouping with 9 other people is NOT soloing. Also,  if you do these raids and never feel like talking to them then its because you're anti-social and that is no fault of WoWs.

But this thread has gotten off topic I think... for a company that only releases an expansion every two years, it is sad to see just more of the same gimmics and instances re-introduced. Yes it is nice that more people will see NAXX, but it will never be the same as it was as a 40-man, and it was HARD.  And all raiders do not live in their basement with their mom...

The expansions are released every 2 years but they release new content patches about every 4 months.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by the "same gimmicks". What gimmicks are they re-releasing?

On another point - the lore of the WOW IP has been broken beyond all repair.. so who reallycares what they dream up...

The only lore that they broke was the eredar, everything else was big leaps but nothing else was broken.

Originally posted by sorcielle

 

Originally posted by Daffid011

Nothing wrong with small and solo group content, but it is much easier the smaller the groups are.  The more people you add the more mechanics and tools the devs have at their disposal to throw against players, because there is not only room for every class, but room for multiples.  Love it or hate it, that is just the reality of how things in current MMOs can be built.

 I like Blizzards attempt to capture many styles of play and offer multiple avenues for people to play.  I may not like all of them, but that isn't what is intended.  Just that there is enough of some things to find enjoyable.  I hope more companies follow suit in their design theories. 

I guess the reality is you many of those posting here really do like an MMO dumbed-down to the the most casual common denominator, and that is OK, WoW is the perfect MMO for that - fun, polished, and with no real need to depend on anyone else. With epic 10 man raids - you really can solo this entire game now without any real social interaction.. (yes grouping for 2 hours and not even talking with strangers is solo'ing IMO.)

 

But this thread has gotten off topic I think... for a company that only releases an expansion every two years, it is sad to see just more of the same gimmics and instances re-introduced. Yes it is nice that more people will see NAXX, but it will never be the same as it was as a 40-man, and it was HARD.  And all raiders do not live in their basement with their mom...

On another point - the lore of the WOW IP has been broken beyond all repair.. so who really cares what they dream up...

I just don't subscribe to the mindset that the only course of progress needs to be hard core raiding.  That is where the majority of my MMO background comes from and something I enjoy, but I have no problem with people taking alternate avenues just so long as equal efforts are required.  The last part is a little off balance right now, but it seems to be working all right.  Not what I call perfect, but pretty good for a new trend in MMOs.

Personally I don't mind the 2 year wait for expansions as long as they are done well and enough free content is released in between.  I've had more than enough of companies dumping generic lifeless expansions onto a game that continually throw the games design, values and balance out the window.  I will take slow and well thought out over quick and rushed.

What everyone seems to be missing is the ridiculousness of having the same boss in a 10 man and 25 man? From a storyline point of view its stupid to have someone like Arthas as a 10 man raid. The Lick King/Arthas is supposed to be one of the most powerful entities in the game that can be done in a simple 10 man more. And have the same boss in 2 different instances ... that is stupid.

In WotLK there will be 10 classes. Unless they make the 10mans simple stupid there will be no room for moonkin druids, ret paladins or fury warriors. Even prot paladins will have limited roles unless Blizzard throws up some manufactured scenario where AoE tanking is required on trash. And don't forget we have to fit in Death Knight tanking. How are you going to fit 4 tanks in a 10 man? Prot warrior and paladin, feral druid and death knight, hmm? There aren't many bosses where a prot paladin beats a warrior tank. So casuals will complain that utility specs like moonkin, elemental shaman, ret paladins aren't wanted in 10 mans. And if you can complete the 10 mans with these classes they will be simple and easy. The benefit of bringing these classes to 25mans is that they provide raid and group buffs that outweigh their lower DPS. With only 2 groups for 10mans you don't have things like melee groups and caster groups. And the reason you can complete Karazhan/ZA with off-specs is because they are EASY.

I was in a guild that cleared Hyjal/BT recently only raiding 12 hours a week. 3 nights of 4 hours. Most people watch more than 12 hours of TV a week. Most of the players in the guild were 25-30, virtually all of them worked full time, the only ones who didn't were married women with children who stayed home. I used to play sport that required 2 training nights a week and a match day on Sunday. Roughly about the same as WoW. I used to be in a "casual" guild where we actually raided more often 4 nights of 4 hours but attendance we would have 10-12 of the 25 spots would be different each night. This guild progressed nowhere BECAUSE WE WERE BAD. I even spoke to some of the members when they finally got to 5/6 SSC and 3/4 TK, and guess what, they couldn't even down Vashj because no one put in any effort into it even though they spent more hours attempting it than me new guild who downed Kael and Vashj in much much less time because we PUT THE EFFORT IN.

If you have that little time to devote to a hobby, if your life is THAT exciting that you can't put the effort into learning how to play the game and organising 25 then maybe play a different game?

As I have proven you can see most of the content in the game without being a 40 hour a week raiding guild then these changes are not designed for "casual" players but BAD PLAYERS. I'm all for having simple and easy content for casuals, but why does it have to be the same as 25 man content that progresses the storyline? Because you pay $15 a month too? I pay $15 a month too therefore I DEMAND THAT BLIZZARD GIVE ME A 2200 ARENA RATING. After raiding I had little time for PvP but since I pay the same monthly fee as the PvP'ers I demand to ahve the same ratings, titles and PvP gear as them.

Originally posted by Aethios

 

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Originally posted by Washo
Have instances for the raiders with harder bosses and better loot and instances for casuals but the tier gear is X.5 whereas the hardcore content will be X.0 gear (ie hardcore instance has tier 8 and the more casual tier has 7.5).

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Funny that you should suggest this, when it's largely what they've been doing all along. This is exactly what they are trying to get away from. The only problem I see here is that everyone is assuming 10-man is easier than 25-man, which is most likely not true. Casuals are tired of being treated like second-rate players, even though they pay just as much as the hardcore. Blizzard wants to level the playing field, and allow epic gear across all forms of gameplay. If anything, this is long overdue.

What are you talking about? You have badge gear THAT IS OF TIER 6 LEVEL and you can get the badges from heroics and Karazhan. 3 daily heroics and Karazhan will net you around 35-40 badges a week. You have crafted gear and now that primal nethers and nether vortexs are no longer BoP. Between badge gear, the odd PvP item and crafted gear you can easily make a character BETTER THAN TIER 5.

Or are you just saying you want the best gear in the game without having to work for it? This is what it gets down to. Its not casuals who want these changes, it's the bad players.

all this QQ over someone crying about instances, be glad they are making something YOU can do.

Cause you obvisouly cant get 2200 rating if your demanding it and you obviously cant get in a raid since your complainging about it, so QQ elsewhere

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Originally posted by aeonbluestar

I think this is a good idea. Of course the unemployed elitists who still live with their mothers and have no friends at all hate it. They've made WoW their job, and therefore hate the fact that other people might enjoy this game as a- OH MY GOD! - a game

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And some people play a game for a challenge. Just because something is hard doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. If I play a sport and my team gets thrashed should I whinge and complain and say "its only a game, you guys tried too hard?" If I pay the same fee to play in a competition does that entitle me to the same results and rewards as the team who puts in the most effort and plays the best? If your argument is that you should have the same rewards (in anything) because you pay the same amount of money then effort means nothing. If WoW's content is based on your monthly fee then why doesn't Blizzard give hand out epics to everyone when you log on?

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They are not ruining the game, so it doesn't "just keep getting worse." If the 10-man version of a raid bothers you so much, then simply don't do it, ignore it and pretend it's not there. That's what the 25 man is for. No one ever said you had to ever even step foot in the 10-man version. Of course if it's the fact of other players other than yourself getting to actually see content and experience the game, then it's time to shutdown the computer and go outside. Walk down the street a little bit, you might even see another person! I know it may be a little hard to socialize, but it would do some good.

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I love this argument. Why does every casual need to stereotype and insult the "hardcore" players as no life nerds? I'm all for casuals seeing content. But why does that content have to ruin the storyline of WoW? (reducing main characters in the WoW story to little more than loot bags). Why are you so obsessed with seeing everything hardcore players see? If you have your own casual content created for you then why do you NEED to do exactly what the hardcores are doing? I think it is you who is the fanatical one here, getting all upset because hardcore players get to see content that you don't. So why should that worry you with your exciting and socially brilliant life?