General Discussion

in most skill based games you can get to some of the most powerful tiers in a minmal amount of time, however you will only be able to do one thing.

If a game has combat 100 skills this is what should happen:  a newbie has 10 skills near maxed out, the veteran has 70 skills near maxed out.  Now they get get into a competition(PvE, PvP, it doesn't matter) they will be very similar to each other in combat strength due to the fact that in combat you can only bring about 8 into the fight due to limiting factors:  anything from requiring a weapon type, requiring focus, spell componets, didn't meditate recently, only being able to use a handful of high cost skills(balance requirement IE focus/mana/rage), or even the fact that combat doesn't last long enough for you to use more than 8 skills.

MMO players in general are not skilled gamers, they are persistent gamers.   Guild Wars PVP, prior to the expasions was as close to skill based as you can get.   A good measure of a skill based game is if you can take a character, pratice for quite a while, then go and beat people of equal level and gear.   

Guild Wars has been the only MMO to date that isn't based almost entirely on a characters gear or level.   A level 1 with starter gear could actually beat a level 20 (the highest level)  

A skilled player, which I was, used to take on 3-4 people at a time and come out a winner.   If this happened in most MMOs the player base, rather than admit to being unskilled, would cry for a nerf.   This is the reason you see so many whiners crying for nerfs in MMOs that specialize in PVP.   Because the playerbase is very unskilled and can not admit to this fact, so in turn the game must be cheating.  

You can't handle the skill!

This is one of the STUPIDEST threads ive come across....

First... MMOs have a certian style to them... which includes levels and armour and all that jazz. Take it away and your making a new genre of game.

Second, it does take 'skill' when you have to plan strategies with a group of people to take down bosses.

Originally posted by CDCosta

This is one of the STUPIDEST threads ive come across....

 

First... MMOs have a certian style to them... which includes levels and armour and all that jazz. Take it away and your making a new genre of game.

Second, it does take 'skill' when you have to plan strategies with a group of people to take down bosses.

1 - People believe the level system is outdated.  Skill-based MMO will still be an MMO, same with level-based MMO, all are still MMO's, just with difference in design.  People are debating whether skill-based MMOs are truely more customizable, the balancing associated with it, and weighing their different opinions, etc.  Won't necessarily be a new genre or anything.

2 - Problem is there still is pretty much no skill in the actual killing of the boss.  People just pile-jump and gang-bang the Boss, and when your health gets low, you scream for medics and the medic clicks F1 to heal you, and that's that.  No leg-slashing to decrease its speed (instead you F2 for "Decrease Agility"), you can't sever its arms to prevent it from smashing you to bits, you just repeatedly click (or just auto-click) at the boss to slowly hack away.

That's MY interpretation of "Skill-based MMO's".

might have been said already but the problem I think with 'skills-based' is that the more clued up players will look up which is the most efficient build while the more 'casual 'players will stick with what they think is best. So maybe you'd have a big divide. Actually I could be talking bollocks.

Class system is easier to make because it is what developers know and because there are hundreds of class based games you can copy things from.

The other reason is that most gamers are idiots, with class system these idiots have a beaten path to follow, which amounts to less whining on the feedback forum.

Figuring this out is really no stretch.

Originally posted by CDCosta

This is one of the STUPIDEST threads ive come across....

 

First... MMOs have a certian style to them... which includes levels and armour and all that jazz. Take it away and your making a new genre of game.

Second, it does take 'skill' when you have to plan strategies with a group of people to take down bosses.

Where in the definition of MMO does it say they are armour or level limited?  Stupid point on your behalf actually.

Levels are dated, they are worn out, they are for lazy developers.  Your character is level 40 and mine is level 25, yet if we PvP I can't even hurt your character.  How is that realistic or even possible?  I'm wacking you with a sword or blasting you with a gun, but no damage.  Suddenly you're Superman...

THAT is stupid. 

I've played a skill-based game (PRE-CU SWG) and I've played several level-based games (WoW, etc) and I can tell you with certainty that skill-based is MUCH better, it's not even close.

Originally posted by Bababooey

 

Originally posted by CDCosta

This is one of the STUPIDEST threads ive come across....

 

First... MMOs have a certian style to them... which includes levels and armour and all that jazz. Take it away and your making a new genre of game.

Second, it does take 'skill' when you have to plan strategies with a group of people to take down bosses.

Not exactly so.  The reason is because:

 

1 - People believe the level system is outdated.  Skill-based MMO will still be an MMO, same with level-based MMO, all are still MMO's, just with difference in design.  People are debating whether skill-based MMOs are truely more customizable, the balancing associated with it, and weighing their different opinions, etc.  Won't necessarily be a new genre or anything.

2 - Problem is there still is pretty much no skill in the actual killing of the boss.  People just pile-jump and gang-bang the Boss, and when your health gets low, you scream for medics and the medic clicks F1 to heal you, and that's that.  No leg-slashing to decrease its speed (instead you F2 for "Decrease Agility"), you can't sever its arms to prevent it from smashing you to bits, you just repeatedly click (or just auto-click) at the boss to slowly hack away.

That's MY interpretation of "Skill-based MMO's".

Your info on PvE bosses is highly outdated and innacurate.  Go read an FAQ for some of the higher end bosses in WOW or FFXI.   If you think you just click 1 button over and over again,  you're mistaken.   The skill is in figuring out all the strategies and then performing them flawlessly, since one mistake from anyone usually means a wipe.  After doing it 100 times of course it gets easier, but thats not the point.  Its not easy at 1st.

Originally posted by tfox2k1  

MMO players in general are not skilled gamers, they are persistent gamers.  

Ridiculous.  MMO’s require strategic, tactical and teamwork skills, all of which are  a much higher order of skill then what a twitch game required.  If you want an analogy the MMO players is the CEO while the twitch gamer is factory worker.   

Originally posted by Josher

 

Originally posted by Bababooey

 

Originally posted by CDCosta

This is one of the STUPIDEST threads ive come across....

 

First... MMOs have a certian style to them... which includes levels and armour and all that jazz. Take it away and your making a new genre of game.

Second, it does take 'skill' when you have to plan strategies with a group of people to take down bosses.

Not exactly so.  The reason is because:

 

1 - People believe the level system is outdated.  Skill-based MMO will still be an MMO, same with level-based MMO, all are still MMO's, just with difference in design.  People are debating whether skill-based MMOs are truely more customizable, the balancing associated with it, and weighing their different opinions, etc.  Won't necessarily be a new genre or anything.

2 - Problem is there still is pretty much no skill in the actual killing of the boss.  People just pile-jump and gang-bang the Boss, and when your health gets low, you scream for medics and the medic clicks F1 to heal you, and that's that.  No leg-slashing to decrease its speed (instead you F2 for "Decrease Agility"), you can't sever its arms to prevent it from smashing you to bits, you just repeatedly click (or just auto-click) at the boss to slowly hack away.

That's MY interpretation of "Skill-based MMO's".

 

Your info on PvE bosses is highly outdated and innacurate.  Go read an FAQ for some of the higher end bosses in WOW or FFXI.   If you think you just click 1 button over and over again,  you're mistaken.   The skill is in figuring out all the strategies and then performing them flawlessly, since one mistake from anyone usually means a wipe.  After doing it 100 times of course it gets easier, but thats not the point.  Its not easy at 1st.

Exactly, there is very much strategy in MMOs like EQ and FFXI that actually take skill because theres groups of 50 that cant take down a Boss, and a group of 18 with the same armour/lvl that can.

And Saying that thing about being lvl 40 and cant hit a lvl 20 and they will be like superman is stupid....

Its a freakin GAME! your casting spells and killing dragons... how realistic do you want it to be?