I recently watched the opening cinematics to World of Warcraft.  I was thinking about what a great game the cinematic-quality animation would make - in another 10 years.  Certainly there are lots of other high quality animations out there, and I'm sure I'd have a similar reaction to them, but I can perhaps more easily imagine a game when I see World of Warcraft characters on the screen.

Imagine a game with cinematic quality animation, with full physics, collisions, cloth and hair simulation, wind, weather and top-notch lighting.  It would be absolutely phenomenal.

Until the players showed up.

They'd still be saying and doing the same sophomoric things that they always do.  The naked dwarves would be passed out drunk in the streets - in beautiful cinematic quality with flakes of snow gently falling on their inert forms.  The gnomes would still be jumping off the highest buildings to see whether they could kill themselves - in beautiful cinematic quality with blood and gore as femurs drive up through torsos.

Is there any point in pursuing an ever more realistic presentation of a themed setting when the players themselves actively ruin the setting?  It's a bit like trying to watch a movie in a public theatre while the guy behind you keeps yelling out advice to the silver screen hero.

Would you sacrifice flexibility in the control of your character if it meant that all player characters in the world remained consistent with the theme of the game?  So your character would refuse to strip in public places.  It would refuse to jump to its death.  It would refuse to sit on the mailbox, block doorways and otherwise be annoying.  Your character would, in short, follow the social conventions of the game setting.

Taken to an extreme, if the king shows up, everyone bows.  Including your character.  You might tell your character to cross the street in front of His Royal Annoyingness, but it won't, because the social conventions of the game insist that your character respect the king.  There's no point in calling him king if everyone /insults him and dances naked in front of him.

This would all mean that when you trundle down the street of town, you'll see NPCs and PCs, and they'll all be behaving like citizens (or visitors) to that town.  People will walk in and out of shops, never jumping out windows or walking their horses into town hall.  And so forth.

I'm not a roleplayer, but I'd sure like to be able to walk through a town that seemed like a town.

I see your point. However,  as much as I would like less immature behavior ..in the end, I also do not want some draconian ruleset telling us what we can and cannot do.

What I find, is the main cities...just silly. However, the out of the way cities are much more enjoyable

The idea is okay. It would force the 24y old bullsh crowd to do Roleplay for a second.

It could be problematic if I wanted to roleplay a character who didn't like social conventions, but I can do that in any other game, so there's no reason to insist all games allow me to do so. For such a game as this, I'd just adapt by roleplaying a character that fits the limitations and enjoy the serenity and immersion of the overall experience.

All of my characters from basically all games i have ever played have never never been "nice"

helpful to others but sheathed in a back story of deceit and mystery never a good a guy guy.

heh my favorite role is somewhat of a rogue who is mostly a mystery to other people anyhow

Okay, have you been on a LoTRO server in the last 4 months?  When LoTRO first came out it was innundated with people who played it because it was the 'latest new thing'.  Now that its been out a year and is "old hat", I very seldom see people passed out drunk  (unless its the festival and they are playing the hobbit tavern run or have had a drink of the special keg of brandy which is mainly fun because you wake up in some random, determined by the computer, place.) or seeing how high they can fall before dying.  Its a fairly mature community.  But then I can't claim to have been in ALL areas, so your milage may vary.

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Originally posted by JB47394
I'm not a roleplayer, but I'd sure like to be able to walk through a town that seemed like a town.

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Everything you wrote before this sentence is roleplaying. Only roleplayers want that sort of thing, nobody else, for the simple fact that it's roleplaying to want the town to seem like a town and want your character to follow some obtuse rules set by the game devs.

Sorry, this thread just really confused me because everything you said, prior to what's quoted, is roleplaying. Roleplaying is wanting the game to feel more like another world rather than a game. Everyone else.... just wants to play a game.

Granted, the less mature crowd does irk me at times in the chats, but most games have a way of ignoring them in some way shape or form.

I'm just throwing it out there, it's kind of a crazy thought though. But, why don't you go try an RP Server? I'm not meaning to sound like an ass. I have nothing against RPers, I wish I was into it. I'm just saying, you might like it.

Having those silly dances and carebear emotes don't help either. How can people dance when theres supposed to be a WARcraft  going on hah!

What I like with MMOs is the freedom; you can do the stupid things you've always wanted to do but never felt like you could do: ride around with a horse in the town, jump like a bunny and so on. While I don't always abuse my ability do these things it's still nice to know that I got the freedom to do so if I want to. When I play MMOs I don't want the realism I can find in reality - I want another world, where I am someone else than in reality. For me MMOs are like a dream, and in that dream I don't want to be under the rules of those in the real world.

Of course all problems you mentioned could easily be solved, while still maintaining the realism and the freedom to some extent. Implementing something as simple as police that arrest you and throw you into prison would allow some kind of order in town. The army can block the path to the king and attack anyone insulting him or equal.

Of course there is also one last important aspect to take into consideration: the fact that realism makes people behave realistic. When you play WoW do you feel that you are really in that game? Probably not. But when you play a game that feels as realistic as our world does then you will probably feel that the character you are controlling is real enough to you that you don't want to bring shame on yourself by doing stupid acts.

/uninstall

Originally posted by Blackfoot-3

 

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Originally posted by JB47394
I'm not a roleplayer, but I'd sure like to be able to walk through a town that seemed like a town.

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Everything you wrote before this sentence is roleplaying. Only roleplayers want that sort of thing, nobody else, for the simple fact that it's roleplaying to want the town to seem like a town and want your character to follow some obtuse rules set by the game devs.

Sorry, this thread just really confused me because everything you said, prior to what's quoted, is roleplaying. Roleplaying is wanting the game to feel more like another world rather than a game. Everyone else.... just wants to play a game.

Granted, the less mature crowd does irk me at times in the chats, but most games have a way of ignoring them in some way shape or form.

I'm just throwing it out there, it's kind of a crazy thought though. But, why don't you go try an RP Server? I'm not meaning to sound like an ass. I have nothing against RPers, I wish I was into it. I'm just saying, you might like it.

When players are in combat, they like to see fierce swordplay animations, sparkly spell animations and their character looking awesome as it tanks the raid boss.  That's roleplaying.  That's wanting the fiction of the game to support their particular fantasy of being powerful and cool.  I was curious to know if anyone else enjoyed the fantasy of a town looking and behaving like a town.  With the advent of cinematic quality graphics, I can well imagine that the powerful and cool fantasy is going to get even more alluring.

I'm not interested in roleplaying, but I'm interested in my character doing it for me.  I don't want to remember who to wave to, or the path to move through town, or who to give way for, etc.  I just want it to happen, just as I want walking to 'just happen'.  I want my character to be an actor on the stage and I can direct.  But roleplaying is far too much work for me to do it by hand.

Part of the inspiration for all this was walking through some of the cities in World of Warcraft while in first person view.  I was just walking along, looking around town.  It was a lot of fun.  I was playing tourist.  I was exploring, and that's something that I really love in gaming.  Exploration is all the sweeter when the thing being explored behaves in a self-consistent manner.

Originally posted by Godliest

Of course there is also one last important aspect to take into consideration: the fact that realism makes people behave realistic. When you play WoW do you feel that you are really in that game? Probably not. But when you play a game that feels as realistic as our world does then you will probably feel that the character you are controlling is real enough to you that you don't want to bring shame on yourself by doing stupid acts.

When somebody decides to do something that violates the context, it will be particularly damaging to the experience of other players.

Ah well.  Perhaps when the day comes, we'll just have a hundred different copies of the game world so that a hundred different rule sets can be in force.

It's a nice idea.

IMO It can only truely work in a cartoon setting so there would be no need for cinematic quality.  if you are going to have the character disagree with the player you have to make it a pleasurable experience for the player.  If a realistic looking character refuses player actions they will feel he/she is cowardly and they will be annoyed by it, but if a cute looking cartoon character does it all will be forgiven.  The reward will be how your character refuses to jump off the cliff, does it stand there with its arms folded stubbornly stomping its foot when you try to make it jump?  Does it grovel at you and beg for its life?  Does it tell YOU to go jump off a cliff?  These can really only be done with cartoons anything more and it will feel combative.

The other thing would be to prevent those things from happening in your game by not having them in your game.  You can't jump off a cliff because a safety bar is there.  You can't get naked because you don't have the ability to.

Originally posted by Blackfoot-3

Sorry, this thread just really confused me because everything you said, prior to what's quoted, is roleplaying. Roleplaying is wanting the game to feel more like another world rather than a game. Everyone else.... just wants to play a game.

 

Isn't that why we're playing something called a Massively Multiplayer Online ROLEPLAYING GAME?

If you don't want to roleplay, go play a FPS or something.

Originally posted by Wickersham

It's a nice idea.

IMO It can only truely work in a cartoon setting so there would be no need for cinematic quality.  if you are going to have the character disagree with the player you have to make it a pleasurable experience for the player.  If a realistic looking character refuses player actions they will feel he/she is cowardly and they will be annoyed by it, but if a cute looking cartoon character does it all will be forgiven.  The reward will be how your character refuses to jump off the cliff, does it stand there with its arms folded stubbornly stomping its foot when you try to make it jump?  Does it grovel at you and beg for its life?  Does it tell YOU to go jump off a cliff?  These can really only be done with cartoons anything more and it will feel combative.

The other thing would be to prevent those things from happening in your game by not having them in your game.  You can't jump off a cliff because a safety bar is there.  You can't get naked because you don't have the ability to.

Player: commands "Hit king"

Character: No reaction.  Continues as if the command had never been given.

Cartoon: says "That's a good guy!  I can't attack him!"

Only the owning player sees the cartoon.  Everyone sees the character behavior.  The cartoon is serving as the equivalent of an error message/dialog.

In any case, the character would simply not do an action if the game says that it shouldn't.  There's no need for a safety bar by the cliff because the character just won't respond to a command that causes it to go over the edge.  While getting naked might be available (for swims in wilderness lakes), a character would refuse to do it in certain contexts.  Such as while in town, or perhaps around other people, depending on how prim and proper the world's social structure is defined to be.

Originally posted by JB47394

I recently watched the opening cinematics to World of Warcraft.  I was thinking about what a great game the cinematic-quality animation would make - in another 10 years.  Certainly there are lots of other high quality animations out there, and I'm sure I'd have a similar reaction to them, but I can perhaps more easily imagine a game when I see World of Warcraft characters on the screen.

Imagine a game with cinematic quality animation, with full physics, collisions, cloth and hair simulation, wind, weather and top-notch lighting.  It would be absolutely phenomenal.

Until the players showed up.

They'd still be saying and doing the same sophomoric things that they always do.  The naked dwarves would be passed out drunk in the streets - in beautiful cinematic quality with flakes of snow gently falling on their inert forms.  The gnomes would still be jumping off the highest buildings to see whether they could kill themselves - in beautiful cinematic quality with blood and gore as femurs drive up through torsos.

Is there any point in pursuing an ever more realistic presentation of a themed setting when the players themselves actively ruin the setting?  It's a bit like trying to watch a movie in a public theatre while the guy behind you keeps yelling out advice to the silver screen hero.

Would you sacrifice flexibility in the control of your character if it meant that all player characters in the world remained consistent with the theme of the game?  So your character would refuse to strip in public places.  It would refuse to jump to its death.  It would refuse to sit on the mailbox, block doorways and otherwise be annoying.  Your character would, in short, follow the social conventions of the game setting.

Taken to an extreme, if the king shows up, everyone bows.  Including your character.  You might tell your character to cross the street in front of His Royal Annoyingness, but it won't, because the social conventions of the game insist that your character respect the king.  There's no point in calling him king if everyone /insults him and dances naked in front of him.

This would all mean that when you trundle down the street of town, you'll see NPCs and PCs, and they'll all be behaving like citizens (or visitors) to that town.  People will walk in and out of shops, never jumping out windows or walking their horses into town hall.  And so forth.

I'm not a roleplayer, but I'd sure like to be able to walk through a town that seemed like a town.

The MMO developers shared your same ideas and thus created the RP servers for this very reason. Some games were very strict about character naming, and all real life drama was to be used in a (ooc) form. Unfortunately, too many non RP'ers moved in, and changed all of this.

The majority of the Roleplayers were tabletop gamers before they stepped into the MMO world. And most of them were tight-nitched friends. With D&D 4.0 coming out in June, expect to see less and less of this in WoW and other games of the sort.

No I would not  want to play a character that always had to be nice. First off most games these days have too many limitations as it is.. People play games to relax, have fun, let loose and enjoy themselves not feel like they are sitting through a church sermon. In  our lives we have to be nice even when we don;t feel like being nice, but we are simply because it makes the world a better place .. in games we enjoy that we do not have to be nice and therefore we may unleash our violent tendencies out on poor pixelated players in order than no one gets injured for real.  We enjoy being able to sing songs about each others butts while killing them because it is simply unacceptable to act this way in person.  In fact I would love it if all games had voice chat so they could really hear me singing =[)!  I think they need to remove limitations and rules .. not add to them.

No, that's just plain BS as described. Trying to force characters to ignore commands is a waste of the developer's time, the players would just find ways around it. What I would much prefer to see is complete freedom in action, but potentially severe consequences for said actions. For instance the idiot dancing naked gets the crap beaten out of him by guards and thrown into the stocks, dressed in a murloc suit.

Originally posted by Aelfinn

No, that's just plain BS as described. Trying to force characters to ignore commands is a waste of the developer's time, the players would just find ways around it. What I would much prefer to see is complete freedom in action, but potentially severe consequences for said actions. For instance the idiot dancing naked gets the crap beaten out of him by guards and thrown into the stocks, dressed in a murloc suit.

I would like to see that too! hahahah! I would like to see an ingame court room for offenders with a judge ( forum mod)  and a jury of peers.  where they like sentence people to be tied to trees in designated areas where people can throw  stuff at them. .. and can be sent there indefinately lol!

Future games will figure out ways to automatically immerse the character int he world better as an actor. 

WoW was the first game I have seen to add in automatic emotes.  WHEN YOU SPOKE LIKE THIS!!!  Your character would throw his arms up in excitement.  When you type "lol" you character would laugh. (with voice acting added to it too).

The way to prevent morons from ruining a good RP enviornment would take these steps:

1:  Create a separate Server labaeled RP, Adult RP, Adult server, Realistic Server etc.

2:  Charge $1 dollar more per a month to play on this server.  The 1 dollar extra charge is to pay for the extra GMs who will be much more active on this server.  the player may have to call customer support to activite their account to join this server.

3:  GMs will have to be double their numbers and more active.  Noone of this crap that the WoW GMs do of only checking complaint tickets.  GMs will patrol towns invisible, and look at all chat channels frequently.  Having a GM play as an important NPC from time to time (like the king) would also keep players in check.  If you boo the king and dance naked in front of him, he will call his guards to destroy you.

4:  A 3 strikes system would probably have to be in play.  You act way out of line 3 times and your character will be transfered back to a normal server.  The player cannot re-enter the special server for 1 - 3 months.  However, simply complaining about a character will not give them a strike.  A GM has to catch them or many many people have to complain about the person. 

That is the only way that we will see games remain in immersive and in character.