General Discussion

Having balanced content is a big plus.  No skill based game has ever had decent content.  Its all been in the form of PvP or RPing.  PvE content has been generally non existant.  Attempting to create meaningful and challenging content without any way to know how your players will be equiped is basically impossible.   Do you take into consideration EVERY combination of skills or do you tailor the content to a specific set of skills?  Sounds like a headache.  You can do it, but it'll always be too easy or too hard with not much wiggle room, which will of course force players to choose skill templates to easily trivialize different encounters, which would of course be unfair and unbalanced.

blow off the whole skill based system because its hard to balance is downright BS. name me one class based game that is balanced completely.

Balance is a myth .

UO was first generation. UO was skill based. Therefore, skill based games were more likely to be first generation. I believe AC1 was even first generation. As the games progressed they started cloning EQ and then they started cloning WoW (which is hodge podge of all the best ideas that were on the MMORPG market when WoW came out). As far as I know the only next generation game ever proposed that would have been skilled based was Impertrator (cancelled project of Mythic before it became EA Mythic). I to perfer skill based games to level/class based games because they allow for much more freedom. I would love to see a current generation version of UO with all of the aspects of that game.

Unfortunately, once WoW dominated the market the majority of games get asked how they are like WoW when they go searching for funding, and the result is a generation of WoW clones with a few different aspects, and very few people are following the right concept and focusing content away from WoW. Its this simple....If I wanted to play WoW I would be playing WoW. I can't stand WoW, so it is more than likely that your generic version of WoW isn't going to hold my attention for very long either.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

The reason is simple, everyone clamors for pvp and it is distinctly harder to balance a skill system based game verses a rigid class based game.   Instead of balancing class against class for pvp, they have to balance skill verses skill and there are usually a lot more skills in the game than usual classes.

So that brings us to the reason, developers are basically lazy, they don't want to put in all that work balancing the skills for pve and pvp.

I'd take a updated UO, AC1 or SWG over any of these current games in a heartbeat.  All were skill based games.  UO was EQized, SWG destroyed and AC1 never updated(AC2 was a EQ rigid class system).   I have yet to come close to the fun I had in these original games in any of the current offerings.

That arguement would hold water if you could mention a SINGLE MMORPG that is level/class based that is actually balanced for PvP to date. The level/class games are just a rolling set of buffs and nerfs based on which set of class players can whine the loudest before a given publish. Level/class games have never been balanced for PvP, and WoW is FAR FROM BALANCED for PvP. In WoW PvP there are two teirs...there is the rogue and then there is every class that is not the rogue, and almost every patch they buff the rogue because they whined the loudest. That is how it goes in most level/class based games.

Originally posted by Katashi-kun

Because the new generation of players only want instant gratification, and with a skill based system you actually have to play for a long while to earn that skill in using that weapon or armor!

In gear based games you just grab an item and go then bunny hop to success!  :(

I totally and utterly disagree because as WoW shows you it can take years to "grab" that item. It takes longer to get items in WoW then it takes to complete 2-3 characters in games like UO if the RNG is not on your side. If people are willing to grind the same content over and over for an item then your idea of instant gratification in item based games is inadequate.

Originally posted by Josher

Having balanced content is a big plus.  No skill based game has ever had decent content.  Its all been in the form of PvP or RPing.  PvE content has been generally non existant.  Attempting to create meaningful and challenging content without any way to know how your players will be equiped is basically impossible.   Do you take into consideration EVERY combination of skills or do you tailor the content to a specific set of skills?  Sounds like a headache.  You can do it, but it'll always be too easy or too hard with not much wiggle room, which will of course force players to choose skill templates to easily trivialize different encounters, which would of course be unfair and unbalanced.

There is much more content in games like UO then WoW has or will ever have, but people turn away from UO because it is an older game. When WoW goes 10 years then you can say that WoW has a lot more content then skill based games. If the same players can play the same content over and over for 10 years and not leave in droves I will be amazed.

We will see more skill based games...eventually.  I dont doubt that.  The class based system has nearly been done to death.  Its usually the same thing in every class based MMO, with only a few minor tweaks here and there.  Same basic classes, same lack of options, same group dynamics...

I wont say skill systems are harder to balance, but I would guess that they just take much more work over all.  I true skill system would leave room for MANY different play styles, rather than just pure combat builds.  When you think about it, a good skill based system is THE major feature of a game, since everything else will be built around it.

  I dont understand why most people think that skill in a video game = how fast you can twitch ,why isnt thinking considered a skill or knowing your enemys and when to attack ( no im not talking about WoW ,WoW actualy requires no skill at all,even a untrained monkey can play it).

 Well what your realy asking for is a sandbox MMOG,about 98% of mmog companies think that linear game = win + lots of cash and then they fail and wonder were they went wrong.Seriously the sandbox mmog market has alot of room ,while all of the linear mmogs are cramped up in a small box.

Two main reasons I don't think skill-based is as prevelant now:

1)  Balancing.  As said before in this post it has to be harder to balance out a skill based game vs a level/classes based game.  Just think about it... with classes, you have at most something like 5 different basic classes (Tank, DPS-melee, DPS-caster, Healer, and maybe Buffer) and maybe 3 variations of each for 15 total combinations that you need to balance.  In a skill based game the number of combinations that can be made is in the hundereds.  It's just tough

2) Ease of understanding.  I think this is a big one too.  Companies making MMOs what to get as big a market as possible... so like WoW, they want to be able to cater to all.  A skill based MMO requires a lot more thinking of what skills to pick, what to pursue, how much of each skill.  Classes is easy... I want to be a Tank... of there is my class that nice dwarven warrior.  For a skill based game that same person who wants to play a tank actually has to think about what makes a tank a good tank... what skills will get me there.  And that is in the simple case that the person just wants to be a tank... hybrids are even harder.

I, personally, would love a good skill based system... but a balanced one and that's tough.  If Darkfall actually happens like it claims it will, they sound like they are going to have a pretty good system (again, if it's like it's described).