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Aelfinn 5/09/08 7:29:55 AM
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Apprentice Member
Joined: 4/17/06
Pseudonyms: Darkintent, Heronblade |
First of all, what is "modern civilization" and how is it so worse than ancient civilizations? Simply more recent periods in which advanced medicine allows significantly more people to live than would otherwise be possible. Additionally, there is nothing "worse" about it. Everything has a drawback, the problem I'm speaking of is not one I'd want to get rid of so badly as to advocate a return to a previous tech period. Second, what is "poor genetics?" That's difficult to define, suffice it to say that I mean anything hereditary which would weaken an individual's ability to survive and thrive without the need for a certain level of outside aid. This would include diseases, structural defects, significantly low intelligence, etc. Third, how does modern civilization "encourage" poor genetics to reproduce? A.) By providing an environment where just about anything could survive and function B.) by having a society where people are encouraged to see others as equals. NOTE: THIS IS NOT BAD IN ANY SENSE OF THE WORD, AGAIN, THERE ARE DRAWBACKS TO EVERYTHING. Fourth, how does modern civilization discourage good genetics from not reproducing? Didn't say it did, but I'll bite in any case, reproduction awareness. Highly successful individuals are statistically much more likely to plan pregnancies and have fewer children on the whole, while those on the other end of the spectrum are much more likely to have housefulls of accidents. Success in this society is not directly linked to heritage, genetic or otherwise, but it is often a significant factor. Course, people like Spears threaten to comepletely ruin that particular notion... Perhaps the clause should be added "success outside of the entertainment field" Fifth, what is this "generally accelerated decline in the overall health of humanity?" General in terms of what? How do you define "health," and in what respect is it declining, and in what aspect is the decline accelerating? By general, I mean exactly that, an overall trend that is still rife with exceptions. By Health, I mean a steadily increasing number of reported genetic conditions, etc. As well as lowered average hight, bone mass, and IQ over recent generations, halting a general upwards swing in all three heading into the industrial revolution. Sixth, why is this a major issue that necessitates action, rather than just leaving things well enough alone? It is human nature to improve upon oneself, that really should be all that needs to be said. See, the problem with crafting social policy on the basis of "Dawkinstalk" is that its usually couched in very vague, very abstract notions; and very short on specifics. Besides, if certain people are reproducing more than others, doesn't that right there tell us that maybe nature prefers these people with "poor genetics" than those with these so-called "better genetics?' If that's the case, then who are we to go against what nature has already done? In most other situations, I might agree with you. However, this is not "nature" doing anything. Just as with everything else, we screwed our own balance up, and are responsible for dealing with the consequenses. |
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Jimmy_Scythe 5/09/08 10:16:43 AM
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Advanced Member
Joined: 12/31/04 |
I think a lot of you are missing the big questions. Who gets to decide? By what criteria is one determined to be unfit to reproduce? Whenever you discuss the limiting or distribution of rights, in this case reproduction rights, you have to ask some variation of these two questions. What makes one person, or group of persons, any more qualified to make my decisions than me? What standards will be in place to prevent the abuse of such authority? Once you start along this line of questioning, quite a number of issues become much more clearly defined. |
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| An individual best achieves optimal stupidity on those rare occasions when one is both given substantial powers and insulated from the results of his or her actions. -Jaron Lanier "Digital Maoism" |
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Vemoi 5/09/08 11:39:24 AM
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Elite Member
Joined: 5/14/05
Government always finds a need for whatever money it gets. |
Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe HAHA this is almost exactly the same as a converstion I had years ago with a guy I worked with. He was doing a college paper on "All stupid people should be put down". I ask him what the criteria for being stupid was and he said people that listen to country music and of course he would be on the board to decide who was stupid. |
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| The Seven One-Word Liberal Dismissals of Critical Arguments: |
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Umbrood 5/10/08 7:59:41 AM
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Hard Core Member
Joined: 7/09/03 |
I am not sure we need eugenics, what we need is to give every person on this planet a choice. In areas were over population is an issue I am rather certain they would have chosen not to have 12 kids, if the choise was theirs to make. Same with birth defects, incurable handicaps and so on and so forth. The time will come when we with a DNA sample of the fetus can give parents a rather precise estimate on what illnesses their offspring are likely to have or contract. Then the choise is theirs, and should not be anyone elses. Once the bulk of the human population has this option this issue will go away. Information and choice is the only way I see to combat this. |
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| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. |
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//\\//\\oo 5/10/08 5:02:46 PM
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Hard Core Member
Joined: 4/17/04
"The dreams of youth are the regrets of maturity." -The Lord of Darkness from Legend |
Modification instead of elimination imho.
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| This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed. |
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Aelfinn 5/10/08 5:26:20 PM
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Apprentice Member
Joined: 4/17/06
Pseudonyms: Darkintent, Heronblade |
Originally posted by //\\//\\oo The problem with genetic modification is that its being treated worse than XXX bestiality movies these days. The minute someone tries to seriously advocate an applied rather than theoretical usage, the public barely stops short of pulling out torches and pitchforks. On top of that, while most of the crap people spout about GM is exactly that, crap, there ARE considerable risks, particularly in terms of modifying our own bodies. |
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Vampir 5/11/08 12:04:58 AM
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Novice Member
Joined: 11/01/04
"If we could live without passions,maybe we would know some kind of peace, but we would be hollow" |
Originally posted by Aelfinnthe best example of your arguement would be truly organic foods. Take crops that haven't been selectively enginered, sprayed with pesticides or fucked with in any way. They taste much better. |
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98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you''re one of the 2% who hasn''t, copy & paste this in your signature. |
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gnomexxx 5/11/08 11:00:45 AM
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Elite Member
Joined: 2/26/06
"Every generation needs a new revolution." - Thomas Jefferson |
Tactics like "eugenics" are just another means of the government gaining control. Who else are you going to put in charge of running this whole thing? And why would anyone consider giving the government even more far reaching power? That of course was a rhetorical question, because obviously there are more than plenty people willing to give as much control as possible away from the people. Even their own freedoms.
Was this thread started by Ben Stein, btw? |
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frodus 5/11/08 11:16:12 AM
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Elite Member
Joined: 9/15/06
Justification is an event. Sanctification is a process. |
The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil. We must therefore bear the undoubtedly bad effects of the weak surviving and propagating their kind.Doh |
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| Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress. |
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//\\//\\oo 5/11/08 1:26:05 PM
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