General Discussion

Class and level based games are first generation. Why do these idiotic studios keep pumping them out year after year after year?  If you've ever played Asheron's call 1 in it's golden years you'll know how awesome it was and it was a skill based game.. It had levels but they meant nothing other than giving a general indication of how long you've played etc..  Everything relied on your characters skills and how much exp was in each skill. Skill based games give the ultimate amount of freedom when it comes to player customization. And everyone knows people like freedom.

No?

Imagine WoW as a skill based game. Would it not be better?

Mainly because people are comfortable with what they know.  If everyone was comfortable with change, then there'd be brand new innovations every week. :)

I personally agree, and am watching Earthrise very closely.  I think the use of Levels is dated, seperates players and it outdates content/player areas far too quickly.  With skill based game play, if done right, can add a replayability value that far exceeds anything out there today.  Add some sandbox elements for taste (the more time and effort you put into a game, the less likely you are to leave it) and I think you not only have a success on your hands, but will have a game that has much more longevity than a level based game.

But mine is just one opinion. ;)

Every time I see such a post I always ask the same question;

Define skill...

Never got a decent answer or got past the "click faster and smarter" argument.

Videogames ... (sigh)

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Every time I see such a post I always ask the same question;

Define skill...

I'am not talking about actual player skill like in a FPS game.

for example in AC1's case.... There were a set of main statistics like quickness for example. If you placed exp directly into Quickness it also raised a secondary Run skill which made you faster...  Raising quickness also made you better at specific weapons such as Daggers..  It system like this just provides so much more variation than a stupid static class system.

The reason is simple, everyone clamors for pvp and it is distinctly harder to balance a skill system based game verses a rigid class based game.   Instead of balancing class against class for pvp, they have to balance skill verses skill and there are usually a lot more skills in the game than usual classes.

So that brings us to the reason, developers are basically lazy, they don't want to put in all that work balancing the skills for pve and pvp.

I'd take a updated UO, AC1 or SWG over any of these current games in a heartbeat.  All were skill based games.  UO was EQized, SWG destroyed and AC1 never updated(AC2 was a EQ rigid class system).   I have yet to come close to the fun I had in these original games in any of the current offerings.

Developers grew up in an age when D&D was a 'badge'.

Because the new generation of players only want instant gratification, and with a skill based system you actually have to play for a long while to earn that skill in using that weapon or armor!

In gear based games you just grab an item and go then bunny hop to success!  :(

Ultima Online was skill based an had no levels. it was a badass game back in the day. I wouldent mind a skill based game again.

Originally posted by Katashi-kun

Because the new generation of players only want instant gratification, and with a skill based system you actually have to play for a long while to earn that skill in using that weapon or armor!

In gear based games you just grab an item and go then bunny hop to success!  :(

And actually the skill based games i played SWG pre CU and UO you can max out the skills faster then most level based games you could max levels.

So thats not a valid point.

Reason developers make level based game is because the execs feel this will make the most successful games .Look at mmorpg history EQ1 was top for ages and was level based.WoW took over level based too.

Personally i like the freedom of skill based .Only sad part is soon everyone finds that killer template and everyone uses it .So you have a server of 80% mage/tank  or something.

I think most games are all skill based. Acheron's Call is on skill tree allowed you to use exp to select your class and train the skill in the skill tree.

WOW is a class skill tree game, you use exp to level up your skill or train new skill.

Shaiya, Last Chaos both F2P also based on class skill tree and use exp to buy. One exp for both player's level and skill level.

LOTRO has separated the skill into traits as well required you to kill a number of mob to gain the trait,

Most F2P are all skill based games, the skill are separate from player's level which means there are two type of exp, player's level exp and skill level exp. You kill mob to gain player's level exp but you have to use your skill to attack to gain skill exp.

Pirate of Caribbean Online also separate player's level and skill level. You have to use skill to gain skill exp.

Game designed to separate player's level and skill level usually required heavy grinds. Unlike WOW planned to release their next expansion pack, the other F2P limited each class performance instead of integrate the other classes as one for player. It means that if you play only one class to the max level but you may still weak enough, unless you level up the other classes as well.

Those games can simply add new skill to continue the game's life as thier expansion, LOTRO also playing on trait, they added new trait but they don't give you more slot to use more traits.

In my opinion, if you've seen a game separated player's level and skill level into two different type of exp, then there might be more other type of exp in the game such as crafting exp ...etc. Usually, this type of game is very limited to develope into future because it's small scale. Even they do added new content but it is absolutely no fun in it. This kind of game needs expansion pack to renew. They have shorter life time.