Good tidings, all.  After playing EQ/EQ2 for 3 years, and after a particularly frustrating evening of grouping with people who have no idea how to play their classes, I logged out, deleted all my characters (lvl 80 dirge - bard - and one 73 assassin) and cancelled my subscription.

So now I am looking for another MMO.

Here are some questions I have before downloading the trial and making a go at it.

Classes: I have always played a bard in RPGs and MMOs alike (EQ1, 2, Vanguard and Oblivion). Which class is most similar to that?  I'm more interested in subtle classes that add to the group and are challenging to master (but all the better for it).

Depth: I am looking for a game with depth.  Depth in gameplay, in class ability, in exploration, in tradeskilling, etc.

Diversity: I like diversity between the classes - enough said.

Story and lore: I am a HUGE Tolkien fan and enjoyed reading the books.  The literature is some of my favority of all time.  That said, I also enjoy a game that has an overarching purpose, a story that drives the gameplay and gives meaning to my existence.

Challenge: I like challenging gameplay.  I enjoy pitting myself against difficult encounters and a harsh environment. I am goal oriented and like to "work" for what I have/want.

Immersion: I want to be immersed.  I'm a professional by day, but a gamer by night.  I like to get lost in the MMO world, have fun with friends, and love grouping up to go against the challenging content to progress my character.

Class abilities: I like to play a class that is difficult to master.  I take pride in taking a difficult class and making it shine.  I tend to be a quick study, and enjoy taking the extra time to learn the little things that make a class shine - especially in groups.

Fun: This is subjective, of course.  I love to have fun (who doesn't?).  However, fun for me is getting involved in the game and the story and working through it with like-minded people.

That pretty much covers it.  My hope is that this game can provide that for me, and that the good people on these boards will chime in with responses that will give me the real scoop.

Thanks for taking the time to read through this.  I look forward to reading the responses.

Lonestryder

I'm currently downloading the client and the patches for the game and they offer a 14day free trial so i suggest you do the same as i do and try it for yourself. Many say LOTRO is like a WoW clone but i want to try it so i will make my own desicion of what the game is like.

At least it doesn't cost you anything 14days. If you should also try the game post your ingame nick here so i can contact you and we'll try the game toghether.

I have also played EQ2 and Vanguard but currently i'm just killing time untill AION hits the shelves.

Originally posted by Lonestryder

Good tidings, all.  After playing EQ/EQ2 for 3 years, and after a particularly frustrating evening of grouping with people who have no idea how to play their classes, I logged out, deleted all my characters (lvl 80 dirge - bard - and one 73 assassin) and cancelled my subscription.

So now I am looking for another MMO.

Here are some questions I have before downloading the trial and making a go at it.

Classes: I have always played a bard in RPGs and MMOs alike (EQ1, 2, Vanguard and Oblivion). Which class is most similar to that?  I'm more interested in subtle classes that add to the group and are challenging to master (but all the better for it).

Depth: I am looking for a game with depth.  Depth in gameplay, in class ability, in exploration, in tradeskilling, etc.

Diversity: I like diversity between the classes - enough said.

Story and lore: I am a HUGE Tolkien fan and enjoyed reading the books.  The literature is some of my favority of all time.  That said, I also enjoy a game that has an overarching purpose, a story that drives the gameplay and gives meaning to my existence.

Challenge: I like challenging gameplay.  I enjoy pitting myself against difficult encounters and a harsh environment. I am goal oriented and like to "work" for what I have/want.

Immersion: I want to be immersed.  I'm a professional by day, but a gamer by night.  I like to get lost in the MMO world, have fun with friends, and love grouping up to go against the challenging content to progress my character.

Class abilities: I like to play a class that is difficult to master.  I take pride in taking a difficult class and making it shine.  I tend to be a quick study, and enjoy taking the extra time to learn the little things that make a class shine - especially in groups.

Fun: This is subjective, of course.  I love to have fun (who doesn't?).  However, fun for me is getting involved in the game and the story and working through it with like-minded people.

That pretty much covers it.  My hope is that this game can provide that for me, and that the good people on these boards will chime in with responses that will give me the real scoop.

Thanks for taking the time to read through this.  I look forward to reading the responses.

Lonestryder

Hehe, i had a smile on my face when i read your posting with your expectations...

To me it seems to be the opposite of LOTRO.

Examples:

Diversity: Compared to Vanguard and EQ2 there is no such thing in LOTRO. You have 7 classes which can be modified very little by activating certain traits. In 90% of the cases you will not notice a difference at all tho between two level 50s of class X and if you notice a difference its probably gear not traits.

Challenge:

LOTRO is the least challenging MMO out there. It is not designed as E-Sport game but as a middle earth sight seeing tour.

A Class that is difficult to Master?

Nothing is difficult to master in LOTRO. There are a few grinds that take a while, and a couple of raids / instances that require a little  teamwork - thats it.

Immersion...

hmmm this is difficult to answer:

To me personally there is no immersion in LOTRO as i take nada influence to the story of middle earth at all.  Whatever my main does, my alt does it too. (Talking about the book quests)

There is no theme, no plot, no story running in the background that i feel part of. I unlock a few movie sequences for certain mouseclicks is all.

You dont change the frontline with the darkforces either if you win small battles or loose them. The world stays static.

BUT:

I know some people feel involved into this sort of interactive story telling - and feel part of the story. They can ignore better that this story is not really happening than i can. So: Try it and see for yourself if you feel involved or not.

Anyway: These are all my thoughts and they must not be yours.

I suggest you try it out (trial?) for yourself.

Keep in mind 2 things:

a) LOTRO is for casuals, from your description you seem to spend alot of time in your MMO's and this can kill LOTRO for you quick. So reduce the time.

b) Use your own imagination to create missing depths. Perhaps try real roleplaying. The game depths is simplified to the extreme for casual gamers and playability of casuals.

If you manage to find a nice kinship and good people, you can have alot of fun in LOTRO - you need to adept your playstyle tho. Good luck.

Snorf

PS: I think the human only class is closest to what you are looking for it is the group supporting class in lotro. (Duno the english name, in german its Hauptmann and it can only be played as human).

Have fun and enjoy ;)

Originally posted by Lonestryder

Good tidings, all.  After playing EQ/EQ2 for 3 years, and after a particularly frustrating evening of grouping with people who have no idea how to play their classes, I logged out, deleted all my characters (lvl 80 dirge - bard - and one 73 assassin) and cancelled my subscription.

So now I am looking for another MMO.

Here are some questions I have before downloading the trial and making a go at it.

Classes: I have always played a bard in RPGs and MMOs alike (EQ1, 2, Vanguard and Oblivion). Which class is most similar to that?  I'm more interested in subtle classes that add to the group and are challenging to master (but all the better for it).

Depth: I am looking for a game with depth.  Depth in gameplay, in class ability, in exploration, in tradeskilling, etc.

Diversity: I like diversity between the classes - enough said.

Story and lore: I am a HUGE Tolkien fan and enjoyed reading the books.  The literature is some of my favority of all time.  That said, I also enjoy a game that has an overarching purpose, a story that drives the gameplay and gives meaning to my existence.

Challenge: I like challenging gameplay.  I enjoy pitting myself against difficult encounters and a harsh environment. I am goal oriented and like to "work" for what I have/want.

Immersion: I want to be immersed.  I'm a professional by day, but a gamer by night.  I like to get lost in the MMO world, have fun with friends, and love grouping up to go against the challenging content to progress my character.

Class abilities: I like to play a class that is difficult to master.  I take pride in taking a difficult class and making it shine.  I tend to be a quick study, and enjoy taking the extra time to learn the little things that make a class shine - especially in groups.

Fun: This is subjective, of course.  I love to have fun (who doesn't?).  However, fun for me is getting involved in the game and the story and working through it with like-minded people.

That pretty much covers it.  My hope is that this game can provide that for me, and that the good people on these boards will chime in with responses that will give me the real scoop.

Thanks for taking the time to read through this.  I look forward to reading the responses.

Lonestryder

2. The depth is there for the most part crafting is way too simple, classes don't offer a whole lot of depth but there is a huge amount of depth exploration wise.

3. All of the classes are very diverse, despite Turbines seemingly bad effort to hybridize them.

4. The game is lore appropriate however the storyline is very dull, in my opinion. It's really, really boring.

5. There are VERY few challenging things left in this game, with every patch Turbine makes the game even easier, the only somewhat difficult things left are Thorog and Thaurlach, both of them being end game raid bosses.

6. There isn't a whole lot of mastery involved, it's a pretty easy game in all aspects, I guess it takes just as much "skill" as any other MMO out there.

To be honest this doesn't really sound like the game for you, but give it a try, chances are you will enjoy it anyways.

I'd have to agree. It's really not a deep game, at all. In fact, when I played, the only class I could stand was the minstrel...and, really, all I did was spent all of my day growing and smoking pipe weed, and playing my lute/harp/flute/drum/et cetera, all of the rest of the time.The game is not too deep or difficult. Crafting takes no real skill. Farming was rather fun, and being able to play songs was a lovely feature, mainly when others would show up and join in...and -not- simply try to ruin my fun. But, other than that, I found it all rather boring. I say, check it out, though. It is free, after all. Nothing to lose. Good luck.

In all honesty this does not sound like the game for you.  I have only been playing Lotro for about a month but I have 3.5 years invested in EQ and a year and a half in EQ2 and the game plays a little closer to EQ2 than EQ.  (Vanguard is sitting on my shelf but never installed.)  I really don't find any class in  Lotro that compares to the EQ bard.  The minstrel would be sort of similar to the Dirge from EQ2.

The game is very simple and extremely easy.  I haven't found much in the game that is 'challenging' other than quests which require a group as I'm basically a solo player.  But the world is very nice, the lore is pretty faithful to Tolkien and I am enjoying my time there.

Hope this helps somewhat.

Would have to agree with the other posters.

While you might find immersion and story-telling in LotRO to your liking you'll probably be disappointed in other ways. LotRO is a very easy game, very casual, and there's nothing hard to master in it. Leveling your toon from 1 to 50 is as easy as a walk in the park and will provide few challenges.

It certainly is an enjoyable game (great views, good storytelling, great IP)  but challenge and depth in gameplay is surely not what one can find in LotRO.

LoTRO is a very easy game, and it seems that's how it is designed. There isn't much depth or diversity, and it isn't very challenging. However, It is still a good game, I had a blast leveling a Minstrel from 1 to 50... it was worth the money. I stopped playing because it got boring. I've reactivated a couple times since I quit, but ended up canceling my recurring payment a day later both times... Give the trial a shot.

Thank you for the interesting and consistent feedback thus far. Two of my key requirements are challenge and depth, and after reading through some of these replies, it seems the trend towards design changes to remove the challenge in MMO gaming is industry wide (rather than relegated to a couple of MMOs).

I can certainly appreciate streamlined gameplay and challenge factors from afar, but I personally require more for my time.

I will check out the trial to see for myself, but thank you again for the replies and the calm, objective tone in which they were written.

PS

If you have any other game suggestions, I'm all ears.

Crafting is not near the depth of EQ2.  Immersion will blow you away, the shire.. rivendell.. all the different areas are breathtaking.  The gameplay is solid, it is pure PVE.. I highly suggest you try to find a good kinship, that will make your experience much better.

Hope you enjoy it!

Yeah I love the immersion and story. I think the epic quest line is great. True the game is not very deep in places and is very much for the casual crowd, but thats why I love it.

I lasted about 6 months in LOTRO...and did not feel compelled to log back in

I went to EQ2, and have been there 8 months, and still play every day...I am only level 59 (almost 60), but the fact so much more exists to do in EQ2, really may make you question your motives...

But, I also know that things have changed from a couple of books back..(I last tried Book 12)...and that there is a "lot" more to do...so, I have the free weekend that they just implemented to go back to the world, and see if I am enamored like I first was...or if EQ2 will call me back.

Plus, I am playing AoC which seems to be more exciting at this moment, but am waiting on their performance issues ...but, my preorder is in..and when it arrives...all games may take a break as I goof off there..

But, I like to play several at once...so, lets see how that progresses...

Later

Originally posted by Lonestryder

Good tidings, all.  After playing EQ/EQ2 for 3 years, and after a particularly frustrating evening of grouping with people who have no idea how to play their classes, I logged out, deleted all my characters (lvl 80 dirge - bard - and one 73 assassin) and cancelled my subscription.

So now I am looking for another MMO.

Here are some questions I have before downloading the trial and making a go at it.

Classes: I have always played a bard in RPGs and MMOs alike (EQ1, 2, Vanguard and Oblivion). Which class is most similar to that?  I'm more interested in subtle classes that add to the group and are challenging to master (but all the better for it).

Depth: I am looking for a game with depth.  Depth in gameplay, in class ability, in exploration, in tradeskilling, etc.

Diversity: I like diversity between the classes - enough said.

Story and lore: I am a HUGE Tolkien fan and enjoyed reading the books.  The literature is some of my favority of all time.  That said, I also enjoy a game that has an overarching purpose, a story that drives the gameplay and gives meaning to my existence.

Challenge: I like challenging gameplay.  I enjoy pitting myself against difficult encounters and a harsh environment. I am goal oriented and like to "work" for what I have/want.

Immersion: I want to be immersed.  I'm a professional by day, but a gamer by night.  I like to get lost in the MMO world, have fun with friends, and love grouping up to go against the challenging content to progress my character.

Class abilities: I like to play a class that is difficult to master.  I take pride in taking a difficult class and making it shine.  I tend to be a quick study, and enjoy taking the extra time to learn the little things that make a class shine - especially in groups.

Fun: This is subjective, of course.  I love to have fun (who doesn't?).  However, fun for me is getting involved in the game and the story and working through it with like-minded people.

That pretty much covers it.  My hope is that this game can provide that for me, and that the good people on these boards will chime in with responses that will give me the real scoop.

Thanks for taking the time to read through this.  I look forward to reading the responses.

Lonestryder

Crafting in LOTRO always not better than quest reward. You may totaly forget about crafting at high level.

One of the worst quest in LOTRO which was used by F2P: walk with Frodo, you got this quest to walk with Frodo for about 10 minutes, he is talking to himself, although you dont have to walk with him just wait until Sam came to you, Voila, 4500 exp. When I play 9Dragons, an old man ask me to deliver a letter to a little girl, the girl just stands 2 meters away from him. Why the old man needs help? because he is nearly blind.

But LOTRO is a fun game if you always hanging around with friends.

Originally posted by Larry2298

 

I am sorry to say you have asked too much. LOTRO is well known as poor character customization but dont know if this has been improved or how much details been changed.

 

Crafting in LOTRO always not better than quest reward. You may totaly forget about crafting at high level.

One of the worst quest in LOTRO which was used by F2P: walk with Frodo, you got this quest to walk with Frodo for about 10 minutes, he is talking to himself, although you dont have to walk with him just wait until Sam came to you, Voila, 4500 exp. When I play 9Dragons, an old man ask me to deliver a letter to a little girl, the girl just stands 2 meters away from him. Why the old man needs help? because he is nearly blind.

But LOTRO is a fun game if you always hanging around with friends.

 

With all due respect, regarding crafting, I don't really believe that is true at all. Mirrored Armor sets come to mind!

Also, the quest with Frodo is meant to give the player information/character state of mind.

This is why so many people "don't get" LOTRO. It's not just about you doing things. It's about the information you receive as well.

Yes exactly. It's not for people who what  to have the best loot or be the best pvper. It's about immersion. Also crafted goods are better than what you get for the same level quest so don't give me that.

LOTRO is the MMO for people who want to play a game and not experience a lifestyle change.   LOTRO is not about chasing the invisible carrot that you can never obtain.   Its not about being 'leet' or ganking people.  

MMOs in general are not 'hard' in any aspect.   They simply have different levels of  consuming time and annoyances.   No MMO I've experienced to date has thoughtful puzzles like Portal or intellectual challenges like online chess, or really intense split second decisions like those in a game of Counterstrike.   All MMOs are all basically dumbed down for the masses (Except maybe Eve which I haven't played.)

So stating WoW or EQ or <insert random MMO> is hard is not true.   LOTRO is less annoying that a lot of those so called 'harder' MMOs in that it doesnt require you to camp 24 hours to get a single piece of +1 loot.   It also doesn't mean you have to raid endlessly to compete in the end game PVP and have a chance.

LOTRO is about providing you with a very interactive storyline based upon the greatest work of fiction in modern history.   Giving you the best graphical experience of any current MMO.   Attracting the most mature audience in an MMO I've seen.    LOTRO has an experienced developer team that seems to really care about the community and the product and not to make a fast buck at the expense of the gamer or the IP. 

LOTRO also does something no other previous MMO has come close to accomplishing.   LOTRO made  a primary healer class that is actually extremely fun to play in the Minstrel.  

Overall LOTRO isn't perfect but the future is bright and its the best MMO we have in a rather stagnant market. 

If you need to get spend 8+ hours camping or raiding to get a +1 Axe of Leetness every night of your life, then LOTRO isn't for you.   If you need to run around ganking a bunch of 'noobs' with your +1 Axe of leetness and fooling yourself into thinking you're skilled while watching your EPEEN grow, then LOTRO isn't for you.  If you're a mature gamer who enjoys a high quality, immersive MMO, get it now!

Hurry though, lifetime membership for $199.00 (hell of a deal) ends 1 June 2008.

Originally posted by tfox2k1

LOTRO is the MMO for people who want to play a game and not experience a lifestyle change.   LOTRO is not about chasing the invisible carrot that you can never obtain.   Its not about being 'leet' or ganking people.  

MMOs in general are not 'hard' in any aspect.   They simply have different levels of  consuming time and annoyances.   No MMO I've experienced to date has thoughtful puzzles like Portal or intellectual challenges like online chess, or really intense split second decisions like those in a game of Counterstrike.   All MMOs are all basically dumbed down for the masses (Except maybe Eve which I haven't played.)

So stating WoW or EQ or <insert random MMO> is hard is not true.   LOTRO is less annoying that a lot of those so called 'harder' MMOs in that it doesnt require you to camp 24 hours to get a single piece of +1 loot.   It also doesn't mean you have to raid endlessly to compete in the end game PVP and have a chance.

LOTRO is about providing you with a very interactive storyline based upon the greatest work of fiction in modern history.   Giving you the best graphical experience of any current MMO.   Attracting the most mature audience in an MMO I've seen.    LOTRO has an experienced developer team that seems to really care about the community and the product and not to make a fast buck at the expense of the gamer or the IP. 

LOTRO also does something no other previous MMO has come close to accomplishing.   LOTRO made  a primary healer class that is actually extremely fun to play in the Minstrel.  

Overall LOTRO isn't perfect but the future is bright and its the best MMO we have in a rather stagnant market. 

If you need to get spend 8+ hours camping or raiding to get a +1 Axe of Leetness every night of your life, then LOTRO isn't for you.   If you need to run around ganking a bunch of 'noobs' with your +1 Axe of leetness and fooling yourself into thinking you're skilled while watching your EPEEN grow, then LOTRO isn't for you.  If you're a mature gamer who enjoys a high quality, immersive MMO, get it now!

Hurry though, lifetime membership for $199.00 (hell of a deal) ends 1 June 2008.

 

Everyone buying Lifetime now should be very sure he plays this game in 2 years still,  because yous see 6 month cards for cheap money often enough that 199$ will not pay off before 24 months have passed.

Lifetimers also completely loose out in all statistics, they can not unsubscribe to make clear the route of the game is bad. I would not jump on an LTA that "runs out soon" the offer will be refreshed, probably for less than 199$ too. When the game came out it was said that LTA was EXCLUSIVELY for founders only, now everyone can have it - so much about how you can trust CM or Turbine.

Lonestryder, I understand your point of seeking a challenge and I was under a similar belief.   Yet when you really think about it, what is a challenge in an MMO other than a bad design decision? 

Typical MMO challenge is no more than hiding a key quest NPC or device, making you search or camp hours for it.   Another challenge is to overpower the NPCs requiring you to group up with others in order to succeed.    This means you're typically waiting around for hours trying to find people with a similar need.     Thats about it for challenges in our current MMO genre.    If I'm missing a challenge let me know.

So you have to ask yourself, why suffer through these 'challenges'?    The only reason I can think is to grow an epeen so you feel more important than other gamers unwilling to meet these 'challenges.'

Basically LOTRO removes the majority of the poor game play and makes leveling possible mostly solo.   Questing mobs are fairly easy to find and not uncommon.    Basically the developers at Turbine replaced extensive and useless time sinks with actual content. 

Developers implemented game devices such as flagging, reputation, rare mobs for quests, long and cryptic quests, all as time sinks in order to keep the players paying and slow them down so they can release content slower.    Basically you're a sucker to there game developers.

Turbine realized the MMO community mostly has matured to the point they won't 'BUY" these typical MMOs and decided to remove all those time sinks and mostly give you pure gaming joy.   Hence we have LOTRO.

So you have to ask yourself, what do you mean by challenges?   Be careful what you're asking for.

"This certainly comes from someone who never fought in competition with other guilds for Plane of Time access. Or who had raids where you had to finish song lines in the heat of battle, while you are stressed keeping your group"

I started EQ in March 1999, played UO before that and a NWN on AOL for $6.00 per hour before that.   Back in college I played MUDS.   Over the years I've seen the MMO market mature quite a bit, as I too have matured.   The EQ developers make places like PoT to slow down progression in order to keep people paying their fees.    There is no more skill in EQ raiding than there is in a good game a wack-a-mole.   You see as I've matured I've realized this, as well as the majority of the real gamers.  

So continue to fool yourself into thinking anything in EQ  is difficult other than finding the time to stay married and maintain a job while raiding.   Unfortunately I'm no longer in college, I quit EQ to complete my Masters degree and while you're busy spending 8+ hours a day camping for the next 'Leet Glowing +1'  I'm living my life.   Yet as a gamer I did miss the MMO community so LOTRO provides me this fix without consuming my life.

BTW:  SOE removed all flagging so anyone can get into PoT.   Eventually they will remove more roadblocks and in a couple years I'll run through all the EQ content that you have spent the last ten years suffering through.  

WoW was close because Blizzard made the leveling process to 70 quite entertaining and removed most of the roadblocks.   Hence the 10 million players.   Yet the failed with resorting to EQ tactics for the end game.   Hence my reason for no longer playing WoW.     The LOTRO developers will replace time sinks with content.   Hence my reason for buying two lifetime memberships.

So much MMO experience, so little wisdom.

The only one fooling himself here is an idiot who claims LOTRO was as difficult as EQ was or is. That is so priceless i wont even comment it anymore.

And for SoE removing roadblocks... MAN that is by nature of ALL MMO's with the massive ammount of content added in the past 8 years you cannot expect to attract new players if they need 5 years to catch up. It happens in LOTRO too already, they are trivialising their poor encounters already. You have so much MMO experience and still dont know this concept? ROFL. And wether you solo through plane of time next year doesnt make the original encounter and adventures we had there any smaller - it would only be bad if the latest expansion was trivialised to soloing. Like LOTRO almost is.