As I suspect most of you who visit this site will know, there are a lot of science-fantasy novels out there.  The genre is crammed full of authors with their own series of books, or sagas.  A lot of it is pulp nonsense, and although fun escapism, it has belittled a genre that at its roots boasts some of the finest, literary works ever written.

In a poll taken a couple of years ago, 'The Lord of the Rings' was voted as Britian's favourite book.  As it has been mine since a very, early age.  Tolkien set the scene for much of what we read, watch, or play today, and no matter your views on him, you have to admire that.

Now, in a genre that has more than its fair share of slush (as, to be fair, most do) it can be hard to discern who is going to be a worthwhile read, or just more sword and sorcery hokum.  Publishers will often add on the obligatpry quote to their author's book that they are 'the heir to Tolkien', 'comparable to Tolkien', etc.  I did not think I would find the day when I would actually be acknowledging a writer with this plaudette.

I had a pile of brand new books sent by my book club, and I was burnt out by the seemingly endless crud I had read in the way of fantasy, that a lot of those books were set away untouched on my book-shelf.  Yes, I had enjoyed Robert Jordan's Series, although I felt that it had lost its way, and was worried how he would manage to bring all the strands together.  Sadly, with his passing, I will never know if he could have succeeded.  I understand that he left notes, etc, but it will not be the same.

I do not want to bash any authors here, but amongst those books from the bookclub were The Sword of Shanara series, so you will know off whom I am refering.  I could barely bring myself to grind through the pages, and apart from the poor standard (in my opinion) of the writing, and narative, I thought they were almost plagiristic of Tolkien's famous tome.

Next in line, was another fantasy series, from an author I had never heard off.  Three books by George RR Martin.  I picked up the first book in what he called his 'A Song of Ice and Fire' series, but I quickly put it back down after only a couple of pages.  I just could not face another fantasy yarn.

So time went by.  The books gathered dust.

One sunny afternoon, I found some time on my hands, and I decided to give them a decent go.  That afternoon soon turned into night, and I had not noticed.  These books were absoloutely brilliant.  In a couple of days I had finished Book Three, and I was astounded at what I had read.  A level of maturity, and epic narrative, sublimely written.  No author had moved me so much in years.  I soon discovered that Book 4 'A Feast of Crows' was about to be released in my country, and as fate would have it, Martin himself would be doing a signing in my very country, just a few miles away.  That meeting is a tale in itself. 

However, what I shall say is that if ever there could be an heir to the throne perhaps Martin would be up for the task.  Certainly if Tolkien was the King of Fantasy in the 20th Century, then Martin is the Prince in the 21st.

If ever you enjoyed this genre, then this author's books are a must. 

Great post.  I wasn't nor am I a very big fan of Tolkien, but lately I've been going through books so quickly I'll read just about anything.  Robert Jordans series is pretty good, but I'll check this one out.

Originally posted by Majestico

As I suspect most of you who visit this site will know, there are a lot of science-fantasy novels out there.  The genre is crammed full of authors with their own series of books, or sagas.  A lot of it is pulp nonsense, and although fun escapism, it has belittled a genre that at its roots boasts some of the finest, literary works ever written.

In a poll taken a couple of years ago, 'The Lord of the Rings' was voted as Britian's favourite book.  As it has been mine since a very, early age.  Tolkien set the scene for much of what we read, watch, or play today, and no matter your views on him, you have to admire that.

Now, in a genre that has more than its fair share of slush (as, to be fair, most do) it can be hard to discern who is going to be a worthwhile read, or just more sword and sorcery hokum.  Publishers will often add on the obligatpry quote to their author's book that they are 'the heir to Tolkien', 'comparable to Tolkien', etc.  I did not think I would find the day when I would actually be acknowledging a writer with this plaudette.

I had a pile of brand new books sent by my book club, and I was burnt out by the seemingly endless crud I had read in the way of fantasy, that a lot of those books were set away untouched on my book-shelf.  Yes, I had enjoyed Robert Jordan's Series, although I felt that it had lost its way, and was worried how he would manage to bring all the strands together.  Sadly, with his passing, I will never know if he could have succeeded.  I understand that he left notes, etc, but it will not be the same.

I do not want to bash any authors here, but amongst those books from the bookclub were The Sword of Shanara series, so you will know off whom I am refering.  I could barely bring myself to grind through the pages, and apart from the poor standard (in my opinion) of the writing, and narative, I thought they were almost plagiristic of Tolkien's famous tome.

Next in line, was another fantasy series, from an author I had never heard off.  Three books by George RR Martin.  I picked up the first book in what he called his 'A Song of Ice and Fire' series, but I quickly put it back down after only a couple of pages.  I just could not face another fantasy yarn.

So time went by.  The books gathered dust.

One sunny afternoon, I found some time on my hands, and I decided to give them a decent go.  That afternoon soon turned into night, and I had not noticed.  These books were absoloutely brilliant.  In a couple of days I had finished Book Three, and I was astounded at what I had read.  A level of maturity, and epic narrative, sublimely written.  No author had moved me so much in years.  I soon discovered that Book 4 'A Feast of Crows' was about to be released in my country, and as fate would have it, Martin himself would be doing a signing in my very country, just a few miles away.  That meeting is a tale in itself. 

However, what I shall say is that if ever there could be an heir to the throne perhaps Martin would be up for the task.  Certainly if Tolkien was the King of Fantasy in the 20th Century, then Martin is the Prince in the 21st.

If ever you enjoyed this genre, then this author's books are a must. 

I'll check him out next time I mosey into Borders.  My favorite fantasy writer is Margaret Weis (and Tracy Hickman), authors of the Dragonlance series (Dragons of Autumn Twilight, Ambers to Ashes, etc).  While Tolkien was brilliant by establishing the standard for fantasy world settings, his books had some long, drawn out parts that killed the momentum of the stories.

My favorite fantasy authors outside of Tolkien are "The Deathgate Cycle" by Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman. Who could not love Haplo!

Main article: Death Gate Cycle

1. Dragon Wing ¹ (1990)
2. Elven Star ¹ (1991)
3. Fire Sea ¹ (1992)
4. Serpent Mage ¹ (1993)
5. The Hand of Chaos ¹ (1993)
6. Into the Labyrinth ¹ (1994)
7. The Seventh Gate ¹ (1995)

My next favorite author is from a D&D series called Ravenloft. He is also famous for the infamous Drow elf named Drizzt! I put him up there among the best! R.A Salvatores books can be found here. He has writtern a very large collection.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._A._Salvatore

The last of my next in-line authors is the infamous Piers Anthony, his Sagas have taken fantasy to a new height that broke the mainstay of what we considered fantasy. his collection is as follows.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Piers_Anthony

For a individual series and single author my honorable mention goes to "Michael Moorcock with his Elric of Melnibone and the infamous sword"STORMBRINGER.

Those are my picks to take the reign. These series and authors have brought me many captivating nights before bed!

Check out Glen Cook's The Black Company series, especially books 1 thru 3.

Originally posted by xpowderx

My favorite fantasy authors outside of Tolkien are "The Deathgate Cycle" by Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman. Who could not love Haplo!

 

Main article: Death Gate Cycle

1. Dragon Wing ¹ (1990)
2. Elven Star ¹ (1991)
3. Fire Sea ¹ (1992)
4. Serpent Mage ¹ (1993)
5. The Hand of Chaos ¹ (1993)
6. Into the Labyrinth ¹ (1994)
7. The Seventh Gate ¹ (1995)

 

My next favorite author is from a D&D series called Ravenloft. He is also famous for the infamous Drow elf named Drizzt! I put him up there among the best! R.A Salvatores books can be found here. He has writtern a very large collection.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._A._Salvatore

 

 

The last of my next in-line authors is the infamous Piers Anthony, his Sagas have taken fantasy to a new height that broke the mainstay of what we considered fantasy. his collection is as follows.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Piers_Anthony

 

For a individual series and single author my honorable mention goes to "Michael Moorcock with his Elric of Melnibone and the infamous sword"STORMBRINGER.

Those are my picks to take the reign. These series and authors have brought me many captivating nights before bed!

  Piers Anthony is great...you've got to love his Xanth series (it's pun-tastic). 

Tolkien doesn't have any literary heirs. No one writes like he did, and these days authors tend to be solely authors, and thus need to churn out books to stay financially solvant. The idea of spending over a decade to write one book, as Tolkien did with LotR, is pretty much impossible these days.

Out of modern authors, I would say that Martin comes closest to reaching the level of Tolkien, but even he does not actually write at that level.

This is not to say that there are not some very excellent authors of Fantasy around -- there are -- only that I don't view them as holding a position similar to Tolkien.

While Tolkien has inspired many, and many great, writers, none of them IMO are able to take up his mantle.

Personally, my fav Fantasy series besides Tolkiens works are Tad Williams "Dragonbone Chair" Trilogy and David Eddings "The Belgariad". Both are IMVPO way better than Shannara, and Robert Jordan I always found endlessly boring. You may try them, I read them time and again. I guess especially Tad Williams is a very good Fantasy story-teller.

You all fail to mention Stephen R. Donaldson, author of the the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant series of novels. If you are a fan of fantasy, then these should be on your bookshelf. Glorious, gritty and epic of scale, without doubt (in my opinion) the best set of fantasy books written post-Tolkien.

Stop reading this forum and go and buy them :)

tbh i don't find reading tolkiens writing enjoyable. very high on narrative and low on characterisation. however he did draw on a lot myth and legend to give the definitive fantasy novel. My friends love it, my wife loves it, i just find it a bit dull, however it is worthy of high praise.

i have been reading fantasy now for 25 years, which is hard for me to believe, i have seen the genre change over time, i have also seen my tastes change over time. The Belgariad really was my favorite fantasy series. I read it every year from when i was 14 till i was 21. it is a great light romp, but as i got older i wanted a bit more depth and some challenge.

a different example is the Shannara series, I loved them when i first read them while 16 years old (the first read always has the advantage of freshness), but attempting a reread at 18 i thought they were absolute crap.

similar with "weis and hickman", Terry Pratchet and Piers Anthony. great when i was younger but as i grew older, they laked fullfilment.

Terry Goodkind and Chris Bunch wrote some well paced and challenging story arcs but i found their predilictions for sex scenes (well the type of sex, maybe i am a bit of a prude) a bit outside my tastes.

I have tried to read Stephen Donaldson a few times as my friends have told me that he writes very well, unfortionatly i do need to be able to empathise with the protagonist and i hate and despise Donaldsons characters which make them for me unreadable.

Robin Hobb also fell into the unilkable characters and plot that goes nowhere except an endless whining.

Jenny Wurts is OK, classic 80s fantasy, along with the earlier novels of Raymond E. Feist.

For something recent and outside the norm, you might like to check Perdido Street Station by China Mieville. Beautiful prose in a distopic steampunk world.

Greg Keyes, Briar King series is OK, run of the mill fantasy, don't expect to much though. His "the waterborne" and "the black god" are great for another view of magic and gods.

Now to the meat of the post, regarding grr Martin. to me thats my feeling 'grr' a deep resentful growl, tied in with leaden heart.

what was my favorite series now surpased by Steven Erikson's Malazan books of the fallen. Not for everyone mind you. now for me to be lazy and post a comparison i wrote elsewere.

some spoilers within regarding a song of ice and fire.

I am in need of a pointless Internet rant as i have gotten grumpy about G. R. R. Martin again.

When Game of Thrones came out, the brutality and despair grabbed me. The main perspectives were the children, that in itself is not unusual (Robin Hobbs assassin series or the Belgariad by David Eddings) but they weren't the heroic coming of age stories. There was abject terror and even the casual crippling of one of the kids. Then with the betrayal both of their father and their fathers betrayal of the heroic ideal, the no compromise attitude these books gained a flavour of their own.
A lot of fantasy is written for the teenage market, so the teenagers or children within the books take a few lessons but end up being heroes. But here was a series that showed a much more complex morality and was set to become the best adult level fantasy series out there. Pity that it has taken a beating with other writers stepping forward and actually producing literature.

The age of people in medieval history thrown into positions of responsibility were often quite young. it is our modern perspective that colours our view that that you are are an adult only when you are over 18 (or 21), this is historically not the case. Of course the modern need for a much more extensive education is associated with this modern change. An example of this context is that Juliet in Romeo and Juliet was only supposed to be, at most, 14 years old, and she was going to be married off to a man who was over 30.

Within the series though, I like that these children do make immature mistakes, like Rob marrying for love which leads to the the bloody wedding.

# A Game of Thrones (1996)
# A Clash of Kings (1998)
# A Storm of Swords (2000)

So three books were written in reasonably quick progression, the story developed apace and my enthusiasm had waxed to a glossy brilliance waiting for book four to arrive.

# A Feast for Crows (2005)
# A Dance with Dragons (forthcoming)

a six year break for half a book. If you don't know, Martin gave up completing book four, split the manuscript in half and published one half of the story. I really can't see the next half showing up all that quickly.
In 1996 a game of thrones was ground breaking for modern fantasy, a decade has passed and the impact of Martin's writing is less lively than one his animated corpses.

The development of modern fantasy has passed into the hands of others with both better ideas and more productivity. In the time it has taken Martain to finish half a book, 2000 to 2007, Erickson has finished six books, each of which is better than Martins latest incomplete effort.

Steven Erikson
Malazan Book of the Fallen
* Gardens of the Moon (1999)
* Deadhouse Gates (2000)
* Memories of Ice (2001)
* House of Chains (2002)
* Midnight Tides (2004)
* The Bonehunters (2006)
* Reaper's Gale (May 2007)
* Toll the Hounds (forthcoming)
* Dust of Dreams (forthcoming)
* The Crippled God (forthcoming)
_________________________________________

I feel much better now.

I agree that the length of time it has taken him is long indeed.  However, the reson for the split in books was due to his publishers telling him that they did not want a book as long as the third.  As usual, we go back down to the lowest common denominator; money.  The publishers wanted a more stream-lined version of what was an already mostly written book, 'Dance of the Dragons'.  A battle of wills then ensued, as the complex story would be compremised in Martin's mind if he followed his editor's instructions.  Therefore a compremise was met, and George RR Martin intended to do two books to cover what was theoretically Book 4.  So, in an ideal world, what he wants is for us to take books 4 and 5 (when it finally comes out later this year) and pretend they are just one big massive book 4. 

Yes, this grated with me as well, as for the delay in Book 5?  I do not know.  Although he does do extensive world tours, which meant I was able to meet him. (Which actually started out as an argument! Plus I ended up walking out the shop with Book 4 signed, and I forgot to pay for it!)

Book 3 for me has been the pinnacle so far.  My favourite character is Ser Gregor Clegane, something Martin himself was a bit shocked about, he said to me; 'You mean Sandor, his brother?' to which I said no, Gregor, much to his bemusement.

There are complications with the series, and the splitting of the books will either resolve these, or make them more obvious. 

However, it is grand in scope, and I do not get the feeling that he is losing control of the plot, in the same way Jordan did.  I also love the way he deals with morality.  I have heard many religious people call his books immoral.  What they fail to see is that Martin is a history buff, and his books are set in a medievel, western Europe-type setting.  As the previous poster wrote, the age of children becoming adult back then was a lot younger, and they were crueler times.  Times which Martin paints gloriously, and uncomprimisingly (you will not beleive what happens in Book 3).  I also love how he breaks all the so-called, golden rules.  These ain't kiddies books.  If you cheer for the 'good guys' then you won't be cheering much!

To the other posters in this thread who have yet to try him, now is the perfect time, as the new book is due out in the next few months.  It may alter how you view the genre forever.  It may never be possible to compare Tolkien with any modern day writer, due to the difference in time, and because Tolkien's book was the fore-runner for what followed.  However, it just maybe that in fifty years time we will be saying the same about Martin.

Piers Anthony, I loved when I was younger, although I have not read one of his books for years, and I have not heard anything about him in a long time.

Robin Hobb's work I do like, and Stephen Donaldson is an excellent writer.

I've always thought that Feist was a bit too light, as though he were writing his D&D sessions into prose.  Plus I truly hate that his characters all 'say'.  Go on, take a look if you don't believe me.  Flick through one of his books to a conversation, and notice how they all 'say'!  Hate that.

I really must try Erikson.  I have had many recommendations about this guy, so I am going to try his work.  What is the first book to go for?

I agree with you a fair bit. I still do like song of ice and fire. I just get so worked up about his failure to deliver and the 6 year break really did give time for others to step up and use the door that he open by breaking the rules and sparking a renewed interest. Six years of waiting for that next novel also carried a lot of expectations, I have a hard time accepting feats of crows are meeting those expectations. It is also hard not to be cynical as well, the tendency for epic stories to get out of hand as the ending an epic story satisfactorily is very difficult to pull off.

I give warning about Erikson in that I know his style does not suit everyone. He is an archeologist/anthropologist and starts with the world being too complex to understand. There is a lot of confusion for even an intelligent and analytical reader as he basically starts the first book in the middle of the plot. Then the scope of the world is also huge, every book is around the 1000pg mark and stuff is happening all the time. When I started on Jordan, the first novel, and the prelude was exciting but in the novel itself the first 80pgs were two guys walking down a road. A very well described road. I looked at the four brick sized novels that I had been given and threw my hands up in disgust. There was no way I was going to wait for him to write about something actually happening. With Erikson's plots being so numerous, his t easy to forget some and it makes the reread a fascinating exercise, if terribly intimidating.

I have also never ever seen any writer casually introduce new characters as frequently and when you have no idea if they are going to survive 2 pages or for thousands, it gives an edge to the emotional investment you make in a character.

Erickson has also said that he is witting 10 novels. Initially I was thinking, "Yeah right" it will bloat out like every other poorly disciplined verbose writer out there (Steven King leaps to mind here). However, after reading "Reapers Gale" which is book seven, it is clear that he is starting to close off plot lines. This guy has a plan, the vision of long term plot arcs along with an ability to build multiple climaxes through numerous 1000pg novels. He also is able to make me care deeply about the characters, to break my heart and bring tears to my eyes. He also knows the power of comedy combined with tragedy. I am surprisingly confident that not only will he finish the novels in the ten he has planned, but that I will feel satisfied.

The first five novels are each quite unique, he modifies the style of the story in each as well. I would recommend you read them in order.

book 1 Gardens of the Moon (1999) almost stand alone
book 2 Deadhouse Gates (2000) new characters, almost stand alone
book 3 Memories of Ice (2001) mostly follows from gardens of the moon.
book 4 House of Chains (2002) follows from Deadhouse gates although the first third is a new characters introduction
book 5 Midnight Tides (2004) new characters, almost stand alone
book 6 The Bonehunters (2006) plot threads being pulled together
book 7 Reaper's Gale (May 2007) tightening up the plot threads and starting to resove some plotlines.
book 8 Toll the Hounds (June 2008)
book 9 Dust of Dreams (forthcoming)
book 10 The Crippled God (forthcoming)

hehe - Aye, I know what you mean about Jordan and the 'brick-sized books'.  That is one thing that annoyed me about his work.  He would take a thousand pages to build up to a grand climax, but then finish it all in a couple of pages!  Four chapters on how angry Nynaeve is, and how Egwene doesn't like her dress, and then two pages off Rand fighting the Forsaken!  I exagarate, but not by much!

I think we are on the same page when it comes to this genre Nurgles, and I am definitely going to read Erikson's series.  I joined a book club, but their introductory offer only has book 7 and 6, and I want to begin, well, from the beginning!  I can sense that I am going to enjoy this guy's work.  So after I've received my introductory package from the book-club, I will be able to buy book 1.  I shall let you know what I think.

cool, cool

there is a lot of jumping around in the story arcs, its quite confusing and mostly doesn't matter where you start, well untill you get beyong book 5 as thats when all the parts get drawn together. so starting at 6 and 7 would be about as bad as it could get.

i would definitely pick up the first two. try to read beyond the first even if that one doesn't grab you, the style changes a fair bit in the other novels.

good luck and i hope you enjoy them. i have gotten more and more cautious about recommending them as i can hype them up a bit and they really don't suit everyone.

another delay for Dance.

A Dance with Dragons is the fifth of seven planned novels in the epic fantasy series A Song of Ice and Fire by American author George R. R. Martin. No release date has been set since the book remains incomplete as of June 2008, although Martin's UK publishers have a provisional date of April 2009.^[1] This date remains speculative until the book is officially announced as being complete.

i dont read books ..... i watch the books on the big screen once hollywood feels like it .....

I reccomend to the OP one man:

Raymond E. Fiest, whether he is simply an astounding author or that it was simply the first time I picked up a fantasy series or any novel for that matter I'm not sure, but the books are brilliant, and despite being a novice novel reader at the time, I instantly fell in love with beautiful build up, simply could not stop turning the page.

Read the Magician by Raymond E. Fiest. It's the first of an awesome series.

Originally posted by Bigdavo

I reccomend to the OP one man:

Raymond E. Fiest, whether he is simply an astounding author or that it was simply the first time I picked up a fantasy series or any novel for that matter I'm not sure, but the books are brilliant, and despite being a novice novel reader at the time, I instantly fell in love with beautiful build up, simply could not stop turning the page.

Read the Magician by Raymond E. Fiest. It's the first of an awesome series.

In my opinion of the modern fantasy writers none are as good as Fiest.  His Riftwar Saga is the greatest modern Fantasy series. 

I would say my second favorite of modern fantasy is David Edding's Belgariad series.

Then probably Terry Brooks Shannara series.

After that probably Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series.  (although the earlier ones are better then the later books)

Originally posted by Bigdavo

I reccomend to the OP one man:

Raymond E. Fiest, whether he is simply an astounding author or that it was simply the first time I picked up a fantasy series or any novel for that matter I'm not sure, but the books are brilliant, and despite being a novice novel reader at the time, I instantly fell in love with beautiful build up, simply could not stop turning the page.

Read the Magician by Raymond E. Fiest. It's the first of an awesome series.

Yes i  second this Magician is a classic, man i so wanted to be Thomas who wears the Armor of the most powerful Valheru Ashen Shugar,a simple boy from crydee turns almost godlike.

Pug is the true power. I have read every single book by this author.

His latest takes you right to the edge and explains all that has come before.

The darkwar series.

Flight of the Nighthawks.

Into a dark realm.

Wrath of a mad god.

If you have read the rest of his books and not these then you will never understand the connection between these and his very first one ..Magician.

George R Martain books are a great read but for me he is not the new daddy of Fantasy.

 Have you ever read any Guy Gavriel Kay books? The fionavar Tapestry? man he makes George look like a play school writer.

How about  Terry Williams Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series starting with The DragonBone Chair? These books are what i called adult fantasy not the dragonlance forgotten realms type . Ineluki the storm king rules in the far land of ice ,once a Sithi king of good seeks to regain  his lost realm..freaking awesome shit dude.

Raymond e fiest`s  world would make a fantastic mmorpg or just an rpg..