Star Wars Galaxies

Here's a poll to allow gamers to give SOE some feedback about their EULA.  SOE supporters have told people, if you don't like the EULA don't play.  I wonder if they understand just how many people are taking their advice, and that this could be yet another reason the game is so empty.  Here's the poll:

You need to go hire yourself a damned lawyer, stop asking for layman's opinions, and find out what the real courts have to say about your obsession with EULAs, SOE, and everything else you are upset with.

the catch .. you have to open the software to get to the EULA ..

you cant return opened software most places,so if you dont accept it tough luck , you are out whatever you paid.

 if you are inyterested in trying anything legal go for that ground , that just buying the software = accepting a EULA agreement without having a chance to read and/or agree to it since there is no possible way to get a refund.

I not a legal guy but i cant really see how being forced into anything can bind you ... i mean if a cop beats a confession out of you , even if you DID the crime they cant use the confession against you. So what makes people think they can actually enforce a EULA since its coerced ( meaning you lose money or you agree at time of purchase the coercion being the loss of money if you do not accept it after the fact)?

Doubt it  would stand up but its an idea. Why anyone would do this NOW is beyond me, The cost would FAR outweigh any settlement /agreement etc ...and it would take 3-5 years .

You put a poll to give SOE some feedback on SWG EULA in the MMORPG.com SWG Vet forum? Yeah, I'm sure that will be unbiased and a true depiction of the current players desires.

Originally posted by daeandor

You need to go hire yourself a damned lawyer, stop asking for layman's opinions, and find out what the real courts have to say about your obsession with EULAs, SOE, and everything else you are upset with.

   I disagree, just because SOE likes to treat us like mindless monkeys, there is no reason why we can not have a kangroo court on the issue of EULA's ( They make me hopping mad).

Originally posted by daeandor

You need to go hire yourself a damned lawyer, stop asking for layman's opinions, and find out what the real courts have to say about your obsession with EULAs, SOE, and everything else you are upset with.

Lol changes in practices around things like EULAs generally start at the grass roots level.  That's us.  Forums like this are an excellent vehicle for gamers to share their thoughts on matters that concern them.

It was a recent gamers conference that had discussions on EULAs that got me thinking about these issues.  Tbh, lots of gamers are thinking about them, and this is a great place to compare notes.

Also, if I want to explore other avenues regarding gamer's rights I can certainly do that while I'm posting here.  It's not an either or scenario.

Further, I'm not particularly upset at this point, I'm at the "motivated to do something about it" stage :)

Oh, and also, I have a number of friends and colleagues who are lawyers in criminal and civil court settings.  I already have their input on these issues.  I'm not looking for that here.  I'm looking for gamers views on EULAs, since they are the U in EULA.  Ultimately, MMO companies should be concerned with the views of those who wil either choose to pay and play, or not.

Okay, I'll bite that you are being legit about a real interest in what gamers think about EULAs.  If that's the case, then give me a poll with some options that aren't complete polar opposites and don't load the side of the poll you disagree on with an option that is condescending to anyone who chooses it.  Polls are best when kept simple:

Choose the sentence that best describes your position on EULAs:

1.  Eulas are needed in the gaming industry and don't require any change.

2.  Eulas are needed in the gaming industry, but require minor changes.

3.  Eulas are needed in the gaming industry, but require major changes.

4.  Eulas are not needed in the gaming industry.

(etc)

I feel that in order to address EULAs, you have to address virtual property.  Sure you can harp all day about how a EULA isn't fair, but until gamers can prove that their game avatars are actually theirs, then I don't feel gamers have a leg to stand on in regards to EULAs.  To keep this short:  I don't think EULAs are fair to gamers, but I don't feel that is enough to force a change.

Originally posted by daeandor

Okay, I'll bite that you are being legit about a real interest in what gamers think about EULAs.  If that's the case, then give me a poll with some options that aren't complete polar opposites and don't load the side of the poll you disagree on with an option that is condescending to anyone who chooses it.  Polls are best when kept simple:

Choose the sentence that best describes your position on EULAs:

1.  Eulas are needed in the gaming industry and don't require any change.

2.  Eulas are needed in the gaming industry, but require minor changes.

3.  Eulas are needed in the gaming industry, but require major changes.

4.  Eulas are not needed in the gaming industry.

(etc)

 

I feel that in order to address EULAs, you have to address virtual property.  Sure you can harp all day about how a EULA isn't fair, but until gamers can prove that their game avatars are actually theirs, then I don't feel gamers have a leg to stand on in regards to EULAs.  To keep this short:  I don't think EULAs are fair to gamers, but I don't feel that is enough to force a change.

Just wait until the next batch of RMT games hit, when companies start charging on a per item basis for items from a mall, they are putting a dollar value on virtual property, making it, for all intents and purposes real property. Keep in mind, that property need not be a physical thing, under already existing law.  Patented ideas, proprietary production methods and other intellectual property, are just the same as a Buick, as far as most litigation is concerned.

The big difference with RMT for items, is that the game companies will be acknowledging that they are selling property (and property rights) to customers, by their own actions, and be opening themselves up to possible litigation, if/when a game update breaks or degrades the usefulness or utility on items people paid money for.

There are two factors that come onto play for 'tort" litigation: The plaintiff must prove that the defendant is responsible for damage someone's property (intentional or unintentional, doesn't matter), and that the damage to the item has a quantifiable, monetary loss value. No one could say that the company wasn't responsible for putting out a patch that "broke" customer items, and in the case of RMT, the companies THEMSELVES have determined the value of the virtual property, when they put a price tag on it in the item mall.

In the end, the companies would lose, the players would be entitled to a refund after several years of litigation, and the lawyers on both sides would be paid the most individually.

So, who is the real winner?

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

You put a poll to give SOE some feedback on SWG EULA in the MMORPG.com SWG Vet forum? Yeah, I'm sure that will be unbiased and a true depiction of the current players desires.

True, but I don't think any other group of gamers has been so affected (either negatively or positively depending on what side of the fence you're sitting on) by a EULA. Most gamers I would imagine are blissfully unaware of what a EULA says because they haven't had to really pay attention to it.

It's only through SoE using the EULA as a defense that I've become more aware of what a EULA is. I've not experienced that awareness through any other MMO.