Pirates of the Burning Sea

Originally posted by iceman00

 

I'll agree with the other person, this game has NOT gotten economic love.  What they have there is nice, and would work even better with the other aspects of the economy in place.

 

my thoughts were based on a quote from Isildur Potbs Lead designer.:

" I admit to being really, really tired of discarding changes that I think would be positive for the game as a whole because they’d unbalance the economy in some subtle but important way.....

If I were still willing to believe that the economy must be protected at all costs, I’d stop here. However, our discussions about risk and reward have gotten me thinking about the game experience as a whole, rather than the game experience as defined by specific systems. Until we implement port governance, PvP is the current endgame in Pirates. And, to go along with that, PvP is not sustainable without doing other non-PvP activities. (Note that I’m not saying the other things to do in the game aren’t fun; I’m saying that if you find PvP to be the most fun, you’ll resent having to do anything else.)........

______________________________________________________________________

Also Rusty answered a comment that FLS tends to make economic solutions for everything:

"It was always known, but the game systems are so interelated that we had to spend all of our time on them."

Hence the reason for my comment that FLS spent too much time on the economy at the expence of PvP.

Originally posted by DJXeon

 

Originally posted by iceman00

 

I'll agree with the other person, this game has NOT gotten economic love.  What they have there is nice, and would work even better with the other aspects of the economy in place.

 

 

my thoughts were based on a quote from Isildur Potbs Lead designer.:

" I admit to being really, really tired of discarding changes that I think would be positive for the game as a whole because they’d unbalance the economy in some subtle but important way.....

If I were still willing to believe that the economy must be protected at all costs, I’d stop here. However, our discussions about risk and reward have gotten me thinking about the game experience as a whole, rather than the game experience as defined by specific systems. Until we implement port governance, PvP is the current endgame in Pirates. And, to go along with that, PvP is not sustainable without doing other non-PvP activities. (Note that I’m not saying the other things to do in the game aren’t fun; I’m saying that if you find PvP to be the most fun, you’ll resent having to do anything else.)........

 

 

........Anything that makes ship loss less damaging is directly reducing the only significant sink in the current economy. So I resist it, because my instinct is to protect the economy at all costs."

 

______________________________________________________________________

Also Rusty answered a comment that FLS tends to make economic solutions for everything:

"It was always known, but the game systems are so interelated that we had to spend all of our time on them."

Hence the reason for my comment that FLS spent too much time on the economy at the expence of PvP.

 

I really don't see how they have......

Originally posted by iceman00

 

 

I really don't see how they have......

A little late by any stretch of the imagination.

Originally posted by DJXeon
Because it was only after release that the Lead Designer had gotten to think about the game as a whole as apposed to only the economy.

Drug abuse can have that effect on a person. Maybe he should have cut back on his use of prescription pain killers as he was testing his game.......

They shoot horses don't they! Account canceled, Most of the socitey have left for AOC which FLS was told would happen.

Originally posted by DJXeon

 

Originally posted by iceman00

 

I'll agree with the other person, this game has NOT gotten economic love.  What they have there is nice, and would work even better with the other aspects of the economy in place.

 

 

my thoughts were based on a quote from Isildur Potbs Lead designer.:

" I admit to being really, really tired of discarding changes that I think would be positive for the game as a whole because they’d unbalance the economy in some subtle but important way.....

If I were still willing to believe that the economy must be protected at all costs, I’d stop here. However, our discussions about risk and reward have gotten me thinking about the game experience as a whole, rather than the game experience as defined by specific systems. Until we implement port governance, PvP is the current endgame in Pirates. And, to go along with that, PvP is not sustainable without doing other non-PvP activities. (Note that I’m not saying the other things to do in the game aren’t fun; I’m saying that if you find PvP to be the most fun, you’ll resent having to do anything else.)........

 

 

........Anything that makes ship loss less damaging is directly reducing the only significant sink in the current economy. So I resist it, because my instinct is to protect the economy at all costs."

 

______________________________________________________________________

Also Rusty answered a comment that FLS tends to make economic solutions for everything:

"It was always known, but the game systems are so interelated that we had to spend all of our time on them."

Hence the reason for my comment that FLS spent too much time on the economy at the expence of PvP.

 

Now you're cherry picking with the quotes.

Yes, isildur said that he was overly protective with the economy, at the expense of the other systems in the game.  Hearing JUST THAT portion would suggest that the economic players are holding up the PvP players.

BUT...in that same log, Isildur said that the economy launched with ONLY one of the three foundations/sinks it was supposed to have.  The reason he was holding on so tight was NOT to hurt PvP...but to try and protect the already weakened and unfinished economic portion of the game.

And, surprise, surprise, to the chagrin of the economic players, and the benefit (again!) of the PvP players, he's giving up...the economic players will be stuck with 1/3rd of the intended design for some time, and the PvP players will get even MORE effect on the game (via the economy)

Which means your initial hypothesis/prediction/whatever, is false.  IF the economic players had all this control in the beta, don't you think they would have gotten a more complete design at release?  Don't you think the PvP folks would have been lacking in design, instead of the economic folks who only had 1/3 of the foundation in place?

And, why would Isildur need to "hold onto" the economy so tightly if it was working at an advantage over the PvP design?  If it was designed unfairly in beta, he wouldn't have needed to do anything...just let it work it's magic.

Over and over again, we come to the same conclusion.  This game is a PvP game, continues to be a PvP game, and will, in the end, have only guildies and PvP players left.

Originally posted by Bountytaker 

Over and over again, we come to the same conclusion.  This game is a PvP game, continues to be a PvP game, and will, in the end, have only guildies and PvP players left.

I'm happy to see any game connected with SOE fail but the hubris shown by this particular dev team means this disaster is especially entertaining.

Originally posted by Bountytaker

 

Originally posted by DJXeon

 

 

my thoughts were based on a quote from Isildur Potbs Lead designer.:

" I admit to being really, really tired of discarding changes that I think would be positive for the game as a whole because they’d unbalance the economy in some subtle but important way.....

If I were still willing to believe that the economy must be protected at all costs, I’d stop here. However, our discussions about risk and reward have gotten me thinking about the game experience as a whole, rather than the game experience as defined by specific systems. Until we implement port governance, PvP is the current endgame in Pirates. And, to go along with that, PvP is not sustainable without doing other non-PvP activities. (Note that I’m not saying the other things to do in the game aren’t fun; I’m saying that if you find PvP to be the most fun, you’ll resent having to do anything else.)........

 

 

........Anything that makes ship loss less damaging is directly reducing the only significant sink in the current economy. So I resist it, because my instinct is to protect the economy at all costs."

 

______________________________________________________________________

Also Rusty answered a comment that FLS tends to make economic solutions for everything:

"It was always known, but the game systems are so interelated that we had to spend all of our time on them."

Hence the reason for my comment that FLS spent too much time on the economy at the expence of PvP.

 

 

Now you're cherry picking with the quotes.

 

Yes, isildur said that he was overly protective with the economy, at the expense of the other systems in the game.  Hearing JUST THAT portion would suggest that the economic players are holding up the PvP players.

 

BUT...in that same log, Isildur said that the economy launched with ONLY one of the three foundations/sinks it was supposed to have.  The reason he was holding on so tight was NOT to hurt PvP...but to try and protect the already weakened and unfinished economic portion of the game.

And, surprise, surprise, to the chagrin of the economic players, and the benefit (again!) of the PvP players, he's giving up...the economic players will be stuck with 1/3rd of the intended design for some time, and the PvP players will get even MORE effect on the game (via the economy)

 

Which means your initial hypothesis/prediction/whatever, is false.  IF the economic players had all this control in the beta, don't you think they would have gotten a more complete design at release?  Don't you think the PvP folks would have been lacking in design, instead of the economic folks who only had 1/3 of the foundation in place?

 

And, why would Isildur need to "hold onto" the economy so tightly if it was working at an advantage over the PvP design?  If it was designed unfairly in beta, he wouldn't have needed to do anything...just let it work it's magic.

 

Over and over again, we come to the same conclusion.  This game is a PvP game, continues to be a PvP game, and will, in the end, have only guildies and PvP players left.

i think you are looking at this the wrong way.

if PvP is only one third of the intended economic sink it would mean the economy is three times as big, i am sure isildur spent nearly all his time on it as it was his baby.

In closed beta it was a fact that everyone that hung around for more than two months was an economic player mostly involved in producing ships, isn't that trying to tell you something?

In any event the vast majority of mmorpg players are PvE not hard core PvP or economic. FLS has said their game caters for all types.

Rusty said that FLS were under no SOE or financial pressure to release so why on earth launch a large economy with only one leg of the tripod sink in place...

Even if i knew nothing about the truth i would say the massive Potbs economy is well thought out & the PvP design to be weak by forming my own opinion.

i repeat, For a PvP system to be under such pressure as the only sink in a large economy it had better be good. It wasn't & turned out to be a high risk badly rewarded newbie gank feast.