General Discussion

It would be a niche title, but niche isn't a bad thing- I think. You got loads of games on your console for instance, not all of them were successes-some had restricted successes were the game may have broke even or even profitted from its 'niche' fanbase. As to this idea, I think there are many games which maybe already around that are similar, it would need a bigger selling-point than merely 'no npcs'. If the kind of appeal stemmed from this no npc aspect and all player-fuelled, then the game would have to provide a very compelling aspect of mere player-fuelled activities. I'm not sure but AC2 was meant to be able to build your own cities- that is a nice selling point, but I don't that ever made fruitation.

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Hohbein

So I was just reading the 'Living NPCs' thread and it got me thinking; What if an MMO was created with absolutely no NPC content?

We all know UO (in it's hay day) was loved by a huge number of fans, many of whom are still loyal to the 'old' UO to this very day. Why? Because players were literally forced to interact with one another on an almost constant basis. NPCs had very little use (apart from loot), and most of the game revolved around PvP and player interaction.

So, imagine an MMO with no NPC vendors, no NPC guards... No NPC monsters. A world in which players would *have* to create their own lives, their own stories and their own quests. You want loot? Go kill another player and loot him! You want to buy some new armour? Go visit a player that's been training crafting and is capable of making it for you. You've been killed by someone and looted? Gather some friends together and go kill him back!

Okay, so a world entirely devoid of NPC life may be a little far fetched, but I think this is a trick current MMO developers are really missing out on. It seems that the current emphasis is to create a game that'll play much like a single player game in 'co op' mode, with NPC interaction playing an enormous part. I know for a fact that there are a huge number of MMO fans that, having played older MMORPGs when they were first released, miss that feeling of absolute 'sandbox' freedom. An MMO is about players interacting with one another and NPCs really needn't play a large part. I think the first developer to realise this could, potentially, make an absolute fortune.

Oh yea...that'll fly...NOT!  Been tried before and the game was called AC2.  No NPC's.   Game flopped.  Sorry.

I realize that others have pointed out how ridiculous this statement is by Teala, but my head hurts when I see idiocy like this.  Seriously, you say in your bio that you are 31 years old, and yet you have no concept that one failure, or even fifty, does not mean automatic failure for all future attempts? You must be a real headache to deal with, I know you have been for me in the mere minutes I've dealt with you.  Ugh.  And the arrogance in which you make your proclamations, that glib tone... Grow up.

- LC

Originally posted by fischsemmel

Originally posted by wjrasmussen

When you say freedom of choice how does restrictions fall into that?

Please make sense.

It would never work.....

I think guards would be needed becuase there cant be a sizeable defense force on 24/7. And while one could argue that the attackers could be the same mabye some guild would set up a huge raid for like 2am. Some npcs would be needed but not alot.

Would be great. I never played UO and it looks seriosuly outdated now, but it definatly sounds like an amazing game. wish it wasn't before my time really.

problem is the only companies that try these sorts of ideas seem like small poor unheard of companies that could never pull off a quality game (no matter how good the promises sound *cough darkfall, earthrise, mortal online etc* ). while all the big companies tend to go for the big buck and clone wow/eq. wow is 99% of the market, and game companies are just trying to make money.

luckily some companies whilst compying the general formula add in a little spices to change the recipe somewhat (age of conan/war etc.)

I have long waited for a game that relied more on player interaction than NPC quests and raids, so I can definitely see the merit in what you are suggesting. Unfortunately, the way the MMORPG player base has become over the years would make a game like this fail very quickly.

I used to love UO back in the day because I could roam the map and kill anyone I wanted to if I felt like. There was also a real sense of danger that made it very important to approach player interaction with care. If you pissed someone off, they could kill you and take all of your stuff. I and many others simply loved this aspect of MMO gaming and have looked for it in every game since. The main problem with this is that the vast majority of MMORPG players just can't handle a game with any real consequences or danger. They don't want to have to worry about the unpredictable and often unstable behavior of other players. These gamers are content to simply walk the treadmill laid out before them and progress through the NPC content step by step. They freak out and complain when things don't go the way they expect and some random player kills and loots their gear for no reason. The whole reason Origin turned UO in the carebear game it eventually became was because of these complainers and the simple fact that they were losing money each time one of them became upset.

From a business standpoint, what motivation do developers have to put the power and responsibility back into the players' hands? The development of any game will inevitably gravitate towards the will of the majority (or what developers perceive as the majority) and will cause the more hardcore games to fail.

Believe me, I wish it weren't the case... but I fear we will never see another game with TRUE freedom until the mindset of the player base changes dramatically.

It'll only work if there are a lot of players and if there's tons of stuff to do other than fighting, like just living out your life in a town by doing tradeskills and such, and probably an option for user generated towns or items.

I imagine this is a terrible idea. I for one would not play such a game.

Originally posted by Samuraisword

I imagine this is a terrible idea. I for one would not play such a game.

Terrible for you.  Those of us who enjoy games that don't lead us around by the nose and force us through linear game play would probably really enjoy an NPC-less game so long as it was smartly done.