General Discussion

I think the sucky part of todays MMO's is that they don't take advantage of being an MMO, I could spend hours playing WoW even if not a single other person was online, like if I had my own personal private server.  Hell I could play that for months to be honest, the same way I play the same level of advance wars every time I take a crap.

Originally posted by LordRelic

 

  And thats why you dont make games.... or why you would fail.....

The above statement reminds me of the old saying "don't throw stones in a glass house" because quite frankly judging by your ideas, you'd in my opinion make a terrible game designer as well.  Here's why.

5. sure lvl based is used everywere but hey if its not broke dont fix it.

How do you figure it's not broken?  Obviously there are at least a few people, even if they are not a majority that want something else.  To give you an example, why didn't our ancestors just continue living in caves?  Technically there is nothing wrong with a cave, just put a door on it and live in relative comfort, but people decided to go out and build tents, and eventually houses and huge buildings we now live in.  My point is, how are we supposed to advance the genre that is MMORPG if we do not try new things and give different ideas consideration?

4. Soul bound items are good  because if you dont it screws up the economy... witch is stupid to do just because you dont like it.

I think it might have been Tatum that said it and he said it right when he stated that the economy is borked from the beginning.  There is very little focus on the player made items and thus the economy takes a back seat because they figure that since everything is soul bound and you can't really get rid of it then it's not needed.  Player made items should be the bread and butter of games if you ask me all the while having rare items where the word RARE actually means something.  It's not really rare if Axe of Screaming Monkeys of Doom can be found on more then 15% of the player base.

Rare <-- as defined by dictionaries does not really apply anymore.

3. WTF is the point in playing a mmo if from lvl 1-100 you kill a total of 50 mobs because "there has to be a reason why i kill them" get over it if you want a freaking reason cause your a rp then make one up thats what rpers do play pretend isnt it?

Perhaps certain people want more depth to a game then you?  I'm beginning to think that people like you are the reason MMORPG's are in a state that they are in today.  Nothing every carries a meaning anymore, no consequence, and the only reason for being there is to kill and then kill some more just for the sake of killing?  C'mon now....

2. i can agree, but then it causes farming witch everyone knows is a bad thing.

To this point I go back to my above statement with "rare" items.  Make them drop from reasonable monsters/npc's.  Why are huge rats dropping plate mail meant for a humanoid where the armor it dropped is 3 times bigger then the rat itself?  I'm in favor of having all npc's/mobs/what have you of dropping items specific to their species.  If I kill a rat, I expect to get rat teeth or a rat tail or if it's big enough a rat pelt that can later on be used by crafters of varying kinds to make something out of it.  Having crafters creates opportunity for others to go out and gather materials.  This creates a supply/demand scenario and drives an economy.

1. thats what your asking for.... you want a game witch combat is a trival aspect of it... im sorry but thats just stupid.... your trying to turn a game into a dumbed down chat room filled with nothing.

 if i run across some bandits i will kill them. if i run across some wolfs i will kill them, and if i run across some dragon mounted pig ppl i will kill them. and i want to run across them because thats what makes the game fun seeing new things with out a reason to.... I want to kill for no reason and i want to do it often!!!

I'd have to say that you, yourself are perhaps playing the wrong game.  If you're in it for the sake of killing, why not just play an FPS?  There's plenty of killing in it for the most part.  Or perhaps you'd like a single player game where you are the "star of the show" and in your grand omnipotence what you do weighs heavily on just about NOTHING.  Whatever happened to a living environment where when you kill said bandits, their buddies come and hunt you down, or perhaps giving you a reason to hunt them because they have resources you need to make a substantially better items to use in your future adventures?

Originally posted by JackDonkey

I think the sucky part of todays MMO's is that they don't take advantage of being an MMO, I could spend hours playing WoW even if not a single other person was online, like if I had my own personal private server.  Hell I could play that for months to be honest, the same way I play the same level of advance wars every time I take a crap.

Not much else really needs to be said...

Levels give achievement based players only one thing to work towards. That singular level that takes forever to arrive. Plus, it divides the player base in horrible, horrible ways. I can't play with my friends because I'm the wrong level? Sorry, I'll pass.

Soul bound items tie in to crafting. What's the point of crafting if only you can use the stuff you make? Likewise, what's the whole point of crafting if better loot exists on monsters? Remove soulbound items and remove loot from monsters. Well, okay, monsters can still have loot, but the absolute best item should only be like 75% as good as what a grandmaster player crafter could do.

It's not human death that's the bother, but it's stupid monsters in general. MMOs are centered around the idea of skills to make monsters attack the least efficient target. That they don't aid their buddies is mere insult to injury of their rampant stupidity.

Gear and stuff, well that ties back in to crafting, doesn't it? As a side note, crafting shouldn't be a click-done process. If players told their avatar to make a sword, then require them to log out for a day and come back before it's actually done (and give players other things to do while offline, too), people might have a lot more respect for crafting instead of everyone ending up as a master of something.

And for #1... Well, that's because you've grown and seen the treadmill for what it is. Once we get more dynamic/sandbox style games into the mix like, say, Eve Online, we might see games where killing those monsters means your kingdom will have access to mithril so that you can finally push back the other kingdom creeping up on your borders. And suddenly clearing that lair out isn't trivial.

I can only agree with #4.

Mine would be:

3) No one groups through the leveling experience. More XP given to soloing, no sharing loot, there is almost zero interdependence through the leveling treadmill.

2) Grouping is penalized in most games. Sharing loot means someone gets nada, XP is reduced.

1) Raids. Everyone wants to be max lvl, so they can raid. Raids are setup with a DKP system that feels too much like getting paid instead of playing a game. Most raids are not lore based, therefore, just making the game a big loot whore fest.

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by nariusseldon

I disagree.

The OP is imaging a game where RP & story matters. That is NOT what MMORPGs are designed for. MMORPGs are designed as hack-n-slash games with cool loot. Story is never the fun part of hack-n-slash games. It is all about fun combat with good items. Logic & stories are secondary.

Diablo is the best example. I am sure Diablo has a story but 99% of the players wouldn't care less.

WOW is the same. In fact, if you listen to in-game conversation, no one EVER talks about the story. It is about maxing DPS or how to use this cool ability, or how to get this piece of cool loot. That is what players care about.

 

 

I see what you and the OP are saying.  If you are trying to say that WoW has no story or lore, you are an idiot.  The problem with WoW, and Nari eluded to it, is that the WoW story is hiding in books throughout the land.  You have to go out of your way to read the story.  If you follow the story from beginning to end, WoW is amazing.  It is just a damn shame they buried it.

 

Originally posted by brostyn

I can only agree with #4.

 

Mine would be:

 

3) No one groups through the leveling experience. More XP given to soloing, no sharing loot, there is almost zero interdependence through the leveling treadmill.

2) Grouping is penalized in most games. Sharing loot means someone gets nada, XP is reduced.

1) Raids. Everyone wants to be max lvl, so they can raid. Raids are setup with a DKP system that feels too much like getting paid instead of playing a game. Most raids are not lore based, therefore, just making the game a big loot whore fest.

for your #2 I'd say make stuff crafted, that way when you're out there fighting in your group you're not focused on "phat lewt" and just on furthering your skills with whatever you're practicing and getting things you can sell to the crafters for gold or for actual things they might make.

I think Raids, well at least the way they were done in WoW are a major setback for the genre.  Shoehorning people into an instance is a terrible idea if you ask me.  This however was all bread due to the dependence of dropped items.  I never understood WoW's model where you can solo all the way to max level and then all of a sudden the gameplay shifts from a more or less solo experience to a forced group experience.  I'm sure at least some people went from "well that was pretty good I got all the way to max level with no dependence on others" and then get hit with "wtf I have to group now?".  The way I see it is that they should keep it consistent.  If it's solo to max level then make the rest of it solo.  Otherwise if your endgame is heavily group dependent then keep the theme throughout the game.  This way there is no shock when you get to the end where you feel like you jumped into a tub of ice water.  Continuity is a good thing.

Once again, your post somewhat confuses me so I'm not sure if what you stated was what you're asking for or if you're pointing out the faults of current games.

I think they way WoW did Raiding was too technical. (I have no problem with it except it does exclude people. Can only have so many DPS eh?). If I go in a raid or major instance, I want it to feel that way...for example, if it's raiding some kind of demon-controlled tower, I want swarms of them coming at me and my group. I'm okay with intermitten resting periods and such, but WoW is "Mark this, CC this, make sure you aggro this..." It's too technical. Bosses always go down the same way generally and they're too gear dependant. If your gear sucks then you'll have a hard time bringin 'em down.

As for the other stuff, I think there'll never be a perfect MMO because everyone is never satisfied. If a company wants one to be the best though, they need to look at what WoW did right (NOT COPY THEM) and figure out how to expand on it with their own ideas. Should be easy to get in groups (no LF healer, LF tank!!) and also easy to solo. Soloing should feel like you're accomplishing something for some higher faction or making a difference, no rep grinding. Combat and things like that I think take a backseat, unless it's PvP, and also level 10 mobs should not drop phat lewt.

And one last thing: Gear with level requirements is stupid. What, I can't put on a piece of armor because I'm not a high enough "level"? This goes especially for weapons. I can't grab this axe because it's too "powerful" for me. Give me a weapon skill, 1-10, and that makes ALOT more sense. The more I use a weapon, the better my skill...that's one thing about WoW that I actually agree with. Level restrictions for gear is just a way to give a false sense of accomplishment in my opinion.