General Discussion

Every revision of a product should be 'better' or 'improved'.   Those qualities are left for the individual to decide upon. 

WoW did a lot to learn from the mistakes of other games. 

Newer games should do what they can to learn from WoW's mistakes.

Hopefully, MMORPG quality will leapfrog from generation to generation, much like computer hardware technology has.  I haven't seen this trend in MMO's yet, but hopefully we'll see this begin from here on out.

I'm not suggesting that we are entering a 'post-WoW' era.  WoW may re-invent itself and keep moving.  But if it doesn't, hopefully another game will come along and either overtake the top spot OR force WoW to improve. 

Originally posted by DragonOak

Something finite like an MMORPG with borders, edges, and limited will NEVER replace something infinite to include the unlimited freedom of a good imagination.  Because AC was your first "real" experience with an MMORPG and your imagination at that time had not experienced such wonder, once that imagination had time to catch up to that "first experience" with an MMORPG nothing will ever come close again. 

Don't get me wrong DragonOak, AC wasn't perfect, but by the MMO's out today it is still a great game.  I just recently went back to it for the 3rd time after being stolen away by MMO's that were comming out.  The excitement was still there, the exilieration of seeing a Titas Lugian again...LOL.  Man it was fun, but I do agree there can always be improvements to it and you are right ever MMORPG has borders/edges but in AC those borders were only in the water because swimming was not part of the game back then.  However with Turbine releasing content every month the game has evolved alot and increased its land mass probably by 1/3 easy.  Either way you are not guided, it is your choice on how to proceed.  In most MMO's now you are handed each quest like a trail of bread crumbs to advance.  I agree that nothing will probably bring the child like sensation back like AC did, but with the right sets of ideas I believe that MMO's could evolve alot more from these games that didn't get alot of credit back in the day.

Originally posted by BlackWatch

Every revision of a product should be 'better' or 'improved'.   Those qualities are left for the individual to decide upon. 

WoW did a lot to learn from the mistakes of other games. 

Newer games should do what they can to learn from WoW's mistakes.

Hopefully, MMORPG quality will leapfrog from generation to generation, much like computer hardware technology has.  I haven't seen this trend in MMO's yet, but hopefully we'll see this begin from here on out.

I'm not suggesting that we are entering a 'post-WoW' era.  WoW may re-invent itself and keep moving.  But if it doesn't, hopefully another game will come along and either overtake the top spot OR force WoW to improve. 

Well said.  Wow didn't destroy the industry, it helped to shape it and helped it to evolve.  In my opinion, there have been 3 distinct moments in the industry which have helped to shape it and will continue to shape it:

1)  The development of the graphical based MMO's we know e.g. EQ1 etc.

2)  The development of the more casual friend, high polished MMO product.  E.g. WoW.

3)  The MMO industry learns that throwing big names and a lot of money at MMO's does not mean instant success against all other opposition e.g Vanguard and Tabula Rasa.

Thus the industry is now learning from the above, learning to understand that the level of quality expected in MMO's has risen significant, as have the costs and the demands that the playerbase is making.

Age of Conan will be the next evolutionary step in how to develop, launch and maintain an MMO in today's market.  As with others, it may get things wrong, but it may also get others right.  WAR may also make some tribute to the development of the industry too.

When all is said and done had the technology and know how for WoW been available 10 years ago, then EQ1 would have been very different and this post would not have even been conceived.  Even Brad McQuaid said that they made a LOT of mistakes with EQ1, regardless of how people feel about the game.  One of which was filling the games with grinds because the technology was limited at the time.  Back in the days gone by, people were satisfied with graphics found in "Chuckie Egg" and "Manic Miner".  Now they demand realism.  Such is life.

Another thing to remember is that no matter how slow you develop the "leveling curve" the MMO players have a knack of finding ways round it.  Devs just have to make sure that there is enough content to satisfy people.

I disagree due to the wording of your title.

If people try WoW and like WoW... and they stay there.  Then WoW didn't ruin their idea of an mmo.

If they tried another MMO L2, EQ1/2, lotro (or any other) and didn't like it... Then those games weren't their idea of fun.

So in reality.. WoW may have ruined your idea of an MMO.. or even mine.

But your topic is setup as a universal it ruined it for everyone fact based claim.

*note*

There are plenty of people that don't like WoW.. but there are plenty that do.

Originally posted by Aguitha

10 Millions users can't be wrong.  Peoples don't want any huge grind.   Peoples are busy these days, when they play a game they want to feel they are accomplishing something even if they have only 30 minutes to play.

 

Yes they can. Never listen to the common masses, they know not of what they speak. Also it must be said that the grind in WoW is ridiculous. If someone manages to accomplish something on half an hour a day i would be very surprised. How many days are we talking about here, 5000, 10000?

Originally posted by Va-le

Originally posted by Aguitha

10 Millions users can't be wrong.  Peoples don't want any huge grind.   Peoples are busy these days, when they play a game they want to feel they are accomplishing something even if they have only 30 minutes to play.

 

Yes they can. Never listen to the common masses, they know not of what they speak. Also it must be said that the grind in WoW is ridiculous. If someone manages to accomplish something on half an hour a day i would be very surprised. How many days are we talking about here, 5000, 10000?

Half an hour, you can do 2-3 daily quests, or do some AH stuff & crafting.

Many quests can be done (or at least parts) in 30 min.

You obviously cannot run through a dungeon in 30 min, but a lot of the dungeon takes 2 hours and that is not a long commitment.

Well, there is no RIGHT or WRONG about what people like. If Blizzard can get 10M likes WOW enough to subscribe, more power to them.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

Originally posted by Va-le

Originally posted by Aguitha

10 Millions users can't be wrong.  Peoples don't want any huge grind.   Peoples are busy these days, when they play a game they want to feel they are accomplishing something even if they have only 30 minutes to play.

 

Yes they can. Never listen to the common masses, they know not of what they speak. Also it must be said that the grind in WoW is ridiculous. If someone manages to accomplish something on half an hour a day i would be very surprised. How many days are we talking about here, 5000, 10000?

 

Half an hour, you can do 2-3 daily quests, or do some AH stuff & crafting.

Many quests can be done (or at least parts) in 30 min.

You obviously cannot run through a dungeon in 30 min, but a lot of the dungeon takes 2 hours and that is not a long commitment.

Well, there is no RIGHT or WRONG about what people like. If Blizzard can get 10M likes WOW enough to subscribe, more power to them.

I agree. But WoW is not a half hour, pop in pop out game. To get anywhere people have to end game grind seemingly forever. It doesn't affect me, i played for about five minutes and really couldn't stand it but from what i hear the grinding is a nightmare. If people find something they enjoy doing  then that's  great.  I would just debate the fact that the game has no grind, sure it doesn't have leveling grind, but it has a myriad of  other grind.

Originally posted by Va-le

Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

Originally posted by Va-le

Originally posted by Aguitha

10 Millions users can't be wrong.  Peoples don't want any huge grind.   Peoples are busy these days, when they play a game they want to feel they are accomplishing something even if they have only 30 minutes to play.

 

Yes they can. Never listen to the common masses, they know not of what they speak. Also it must be said that the grind in WoW is ridiculous. If someone manages to accomplish something on half an hour a day i would be very surprised. How many days are we talking about here, 5000, 10000?

 

Half an hour, you can do 2-3 daily quests, or do some AH stuff & crafting.

Many quests can be done (or at least parts) in 30 min.

You obviously cannot run through a dungeon in 30 min, but a lot of the dungeon takes 2 hours and that is not a long commitment.

Well, there is no RIGHT or WRONG about what people like. If Blizzard can get 10M likes WOW enough to subscribe, more power to them.

I agree. But WoW is not a half hour, pop in pop out game. To get anywhere people have to end game grind seemingly forever. It doesn't affect me, i played for about five minutes and really couldn't stand it but from what i hear the grinding is a nightmare. If people find something they enjoy doing  then that's  great.  I would just debate the fact that the game has no grind, sure it doesn't have leveling grind, but it has a myriad of  other grind.

You can do a lot in a small amount of time in WoW.  Just like another other game, preparation is the key.  If you know where you're going and what you're doing, then you're time is organised.  If you're just sat in Orgrimmaar spamming the LFG channel then you're not.

Yes Wow, just like a lot of MMO's, has its share of grinding quests.  I must disagree with what you have "heard" about the grinding being a nightmare.  The "grind" in WoW is actually quite pallatable even when NOT compared to other games.  Sure you don't get drops on EVERY kill, but that's the point, but its not like you guaranteed only 1 drop from say killing 20 mobs on every grind quest.  There must be only 1 quest I can think of which requires you to get 1 item, which could be considered a slight annoyance (goddamn turtle quest in Tarren Mill).  But given the immense multitude of quests in WoW, this is just a drop in the ocean, so to speak.

On average it took me the game equivalent of 13 days (24 hours x 13) to reach level 60 on each of my characters.  1 month per character is NOT a long time.  And on a daily basis, the first 40 levels are a breeze, you get through multiple levels even in a small sitting. Above level 40, it starts to slow a little but, nothing drastic, giving about 1 level per day.