Originally posted by Draenor

Originally posted by olddaddy

 

Originally posted by daeandor

If you want to clump American Christians into one big group, I'd say you'd need to look more at the New Testament rather than the Old Testament.  They are distinctly different, and sometimes contradictory in regards to God's disposition toward mankind.

 

Edit:  I hadn't read vampir's response before I posted this...

Okay, I'll bite.....

 

So, why the persoanlity differences? Is the God of the Old Testament the same God as the New Testament? Does God have a personality disorder? Or are we talking about two distinctly different Gods?

Why the change from fire and brimstone, smoting the unbelievers, to loving and caring?

 

 

just out of curiosity...how much of the Bible have you actually read?  Be honest now.

I have read enough to know about the Council of Nicea, and that it was written by the hand of men. Other than that, enlighten me.

Why does the God of the Old Testament behave differently then the God of the New Testament?

Is the God of the Old Testament Jewish, or Christian?

Is the God of the New Testament Jewish, or Christian? 

Why does God allow Christians to eat pork, but not Jews?

Originally posted by olddaddy

 

Originally posted by Draenor

Originally posted by olddaddy

 

Originally posted by daeandor

If you want to clump American Christians into one big group, I'd say you'd need to look more at the New Testament rather than the Old Testament.  They are distinctly different, and sometimes contradictory in regards to God's disposition toward mankind.

 

Edit:  I hadn't read vampir's response before I posted this...

Okay, I'll bite.....

 

So, why the persoanlity differences? Is the God of the Old Testament the same God as the New Testament? Does God have a personality disorder? Or are we talking about two distinctly different Gods?

Why the change from fire and brimstone, smoting the unbelievers, to loving and caring?

 

 

just out of curiosity...how much of the Bible have you actually read?  Be honest now.

I have read enough to know about the Council of Nicea, and that it was written by the hand of men. Other than that, enlighten me.

Why does the God of the Old Testament behave differently then the God of the New Testament?

Is the God of the Old Testament Jewish, or Christian?

Is the God of the New Testament Jewish, or Christian? 

Why does God allow Christians to eat pork, but not Jews?

 

The Jews are his chosen people. This have never changed. The laws he had in the OT were there becuase they needed to free themselves of sin. With Jesus that changed he cleaned us of our sins. Thing is though he also taught the laws of the OT he did not just pass them off.

Morally questionable tales?

How about someone who sits by and lets their child be stoned, kicked, hit, spit upon, lashed until their skin was falling off, and then hung upon a cross ( which he had to carry/drag himself ) so that others could feel good about their sins being "forgiven"?

The Bible is a compilation of stories handed down from generation to generation so the facts got blurred with the myth.  Many of the tales in the Bible were intended as lessons or fables....they were not necessarily meant to be taken literally.  On top of that, the books were selectively edited, revised (or omitted altogether) to suit the Roma Catholic Church's needs. 

Even a cursory review of the Bible will reveal improbabilities, impossibilities and inconsistencies.  Noah could not have possibly built a ship capable of housing a pair of each creature on the Earth....even if he could have managed to find, tame and transport all the animals to his location.  After Cain killed Abel he was sent into the land of Nod where he found a wife.  What??  Where did he find a wife if he was the second generation of humans to ever exist?  Take even little things, like Genesis 32:30 "...for I have seen God face to face and my life is preserved" and compare it to John 1:18 "No man has seen God at any time..."  These two statements contradict each other....yet the Bible is supposed to be infallible.  Even historical accounts are conflicting: "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when be began to reign..." (II Kings 8:26) but we also see "Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..." (II Chronicles 22:2).  Remember, to Christians, the Bible is perfect, without fault.  Otherwise, the cornerstone of the religion would be based on incorrect information.  How about Satans' temptation of Jesus?  "The devil took him up onto an exceedingly high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them."  There is no point on the planet where you can see all of the world (unless the Earth was flat then).  Matthew 1:16 explains Jesus' lineage; ""And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus..." but Luke 3:23 says ""And Jesus...the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli."  Jesus had two fathers?

One of the biggest problems facing the Christian religion is the church's assertion that Bible is a holy book, without error.  Clearly, the Bible was either written by men or God made mistakes.

Zorvan, would you sacrifice your own son if you thought it would save all humanity?  I'm not talking about whether you believe in the scripture or not, I am saying that, if at this very moment you knew sacrificing your own son would save all of humanity, would you do it?  Not only that, but you also knew that your son would be resurrected and join you in three days.

Originally posted by KrAzYBLADE

Actually the old testament and new testament God are the same....

Foolish and wrong, all of you...

As you are very obviously aware the Earth is flat, supported by four giant elephants, which in turn stand upon the back of a massive Inter-Stellar Turtle. There is no God, but gods, most of whom have retired to the mountain-top retreat of Dunmanefestin. Here they spend there time playing cruel and petty games against each other using all of us as pawns.

All of you need to pick up your game...

PS: Thank you Mr Pratchett :)

Originally posted by Par-Salian

The Bible is a compilation of stories handed down from generation to generation so the facts got blurred with the myth.  Many of the tales in the Bible were intended as lessons or fables....they were not necessarily meant to be taken literally.  On top of that, the books were selectively edited, revised (or omitted altogether) to suit the Roma Catholic Church's needs. 

Even a cursory review of the Bible will reveal improbabilities, impossibilities and inconsistencies.  Noah could not have possibly built a ship capable of housing a pair of each creature on the Earth....even if he could have managed to find, tame and transport all the animals to his location.  After Cain killed Abel he was sent into the land of Nod where he found a wife.  What??  Where did he find a wife if he was the second generation of humans to ever exist?  Take even little things, like Genesis 32:30 "...for I have seen God face to face and my life is preserved" and compare it to John 1:18 "No man has seen God at any time..."  These two statements contradict each other....yet the Bible is supposed to be infallible.  Even historical accounts are conflicting: "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when be began to reign..." (II Kings 8:26) but we also see "Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..." (II Chronicles 22:2).  Remember, to Christians, the Bible is perfect, without fault.  Otherwise, the cornerstone of the religion would be based on incorrect information.  How about Satans' temptation of Jesus?  "The devil took him up onto an exceedingly high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them."  There is no point on the planet where you can see all of the world (unless the Earth was flat then).  Matthew 1:16 explains Jesus' lineage; ""And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus..." but Luke 3:23 says ""And Jesus...the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli."  Jesus had two fathers?

One of the biggest problems facing the Christian religion is the church's assertion that Bible is a holy book, without error.  Clearly, the Bible was either written by men or God made mistakes.

So when the Dead Sea Scrolls were compared to mondern day translations were to be found the exact same.

Now for Ahaziah heres some info on that bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi notice the foot note reads that it can be translated two different ways as my NIV has both 2 Kings 8:26 consientent as 2 Chron 22:2.

Im hoping you meant Joesph when you questioned the two dads. Heres this

www.newadvent.org/cathen/07204b.htm

Heli the Father of Joseph

Heli (Gr. HELEI -- Luke 3:23) is evidently the same name as the preceding. In Luke he is said to be the father of Joseph, while in Matt., I, 16, Jacob was Joseph's father. The most probable explanation of this seeming contradiction is afforded by having recourse to the levirate law among the Jews, which prescribes that when a man dies childless his widow "shall not marry to another; but his brother shall take her, and raise up seed for his brother" (Deuteronomy 25:5). The child, therefore, of the second marriage is legally the child of the first (Deuteronomy 25:6). Heli having died childless, his widow became the wife of his brother Jacob, and Joseph was the offspring of the marriage, by nature the son of Jacob, but legally the son of Heli. It is likely that Matt. gives the natural, and Luke the legal descent. (Cf. Maas, "The Gosp. acc. to S. Matt.", i, 16.) Lord A. Hervey, Bishop of Bath and Wells, who wrote a learned work on the "Genealogies of Our Lord Jesus Christ", thinks that Mary was the daughter of Jacob, and Joseph was the son of Jacob's brother, Heli. Mary and Joseph were therefore first cousins, and both of the house of David. Jacob, the elder, having died without male issue, transmitted his rights and privileges to the male issue of his brother Heli, Joseph, who according to genealogical usage was his descendant.

Again the devil showing Jesus the whole world can looked at differently. Jesus and Lucifer were not mortal like humans they were not bound to our limitations. The highest peak showing all the lands could simply be a meatphor, also pretty much at this point everything was contained in the middle east and northern Africa.

Do you really think he found a wife as soon as Cain got to nod? I would imgaine that Adam, Eve and thier offspring were pumping out kids pretty quickly. They also lived to a very old age in the 500+ we are not told at what age Cain gets a wife he could be very well into his 100s which would have been enough time for the human population to spread.

No one has seen God's face the man who talked to Jacob and renamed him Israel would be a Angel. As God himself has stated throughout the bible that no man may look upon him for his power is too great. In other words to have looked at him face to face would have killed him.

Yes many lessons were paraboles to prove a point in teaching. But that was mostly Jesus. In the OT it is a historical account not paraboles. There are also 24000 copies of NT books many of which helped the Roman councils pick which to be accpected as cannon. See the ones chosen were the ones written soon after Jesus's death within a 100 years or so. The ones people where people say well you left this one out why? well that is because they were written 300-400 years after it had happened. Again over 24,000 copies of NT books help point out the accuracy of them.

You obvisouly have little theological background or even some basic re-serch into this or you would not have made some of the claims you did. Please post your sources for these inconsistencies.

Originally posted by daeandor

Zorvan, would you sacrifice your own son if you thought it would save all humanity?  I'm not talking about whether you believe in the scripture or not, I am saying that, if at this very moment you knew sacrificing your own son would save all of humanity, would you do it?  Not only that, but you also knew that your son would be resurrected and join you in three days.

Want my answer to that question? No, I would not "sacrifice" my own child. They may still have killed my child, but they would have been forced to kill me first and more of them would have went with me. Especially if I supposedly created the damned world they live on to start with.

Originally posted by Arndur

Originally posted by olddaddy

 

Originally posted by Draenor

Originally posted by olddaddy

 

Originally posted by daeandor

If you want to clump American Christians into one big group, I'd say you'd need to look more at the New Testament rather than the Old Testament.  They are distinctly different, and sometimes contradictory in regards to God's disposition toward mankind.

 

Edit:  I hadn't read vampir's response before I posted this...

Okay, I'll bite.....

 

So, why the persoanlity differences? Is the God of the Old Testament the same God as the New Testament? Does God have a personality disorder? Or are we talking about two distinctly different Gods?

Why the change from fire and brimstone, smoting the unbelievers, to loving and caring?

 

 

just out of curiosity...how much of the Bible have you actually read?  Be honest now.

I have read enough to know about the Council of Nicea, and that it was written by the hand of men. Other than that, enlighten me.

Why does the God of the Old Testament behave differently then the God of the New Testament?

Is the God of the Old Testament Jewish, or Christian?

Is the God of the New Testament Jewish, or Christian? 

Why does God allow Christians to eat pork, but not Jews?

 

The Jews are his chosen people. This have never changed. The laws he had in the OT were there becuase they needed to free themselves of sin. With Jesus that changed he cleaned us of our sins. Thing is though he also taught the laws of the OT he did not just pass them off.

So Jesus freed God's choosen people of sin? Yet, Jews don't seem to believe that, they don't seem to accept that God sent his son to die for them. Why would they not believe God's word that Jesus was his son, and died for their sins? Why would they not see the light, and continue to follow only the Old Testament?

If it's the same God, and the same message, shouldn't they have converted to Christianity? 

And what about the Muslims, they believe in one God, is it the same God as the Jews, or the Christians, or a different God?

Originally posted by daeandor

Zorvan, would you sacrifice your own son if you thought it would save all humanity?  I'm not talking about whether you believe in the scripture or not, I am saying that, if at this very moment you knew sacrificing your own son would save all of humanity, would you do it?  Not only that, but you also knew that your son would be resurrected and join you in three days.

Okay, be patient and work with me here. I'm running around the office with my laptop, dodging lightening bolts, while my co-workers are screaming at me to stay away from their cubicles. Whoa, that one was close! That last one just fried some short, fat, balding guy coming out of the men's room. Not to worry, he was probably gay. Either that or God's having a problem putting the ball over the plate today, and has no short term relief in the bull pen. Okay, now for my questions:

But wouldn't humanity be saved by following Jewish religious law? Doesn't the Old Testament indicate that the Jews are God's choosen people, and that they will be saved?

So why send a son to die on a cross to save them again?

And doesn't resurrecting him kind of undo the sacrifice of his dying?

Originally posted by Mylon

The Bible has a nice number of interesting stories in it. In them, men are wicked and they are punished. Or they show righteousness and are rewarded. But is this really the case? [...]

In other words, you are disappointed that the bible isnt written by Hollywood ?

Originally posted by KrAzYBLADE

Actually the old testament and new testament God are the same.... The old testament shows God's law, justice, wrath. The new testament shows his mercy, grace, love and his willingness to have us closer to him. [...]

Originally posted by olddaddy

 

Originally posted by Arndur

Originally posted by olddaddy

 

Originally posted by Draenor

Originally posted by olddaddy

 

Originally posted by daeandor

If you want to clump American Christians into one big group, I'd say you'd need to look more at the New Testament rather than the Old Testament.  They are distinctly different, and sometimes contradictory in regards to God's disposition toward mankind.

 

Edit:  I hadn't read vampir's response before I posted this...

Okay, I'll bite.....

 

So, why the persoanlity differences? Is the God of the Old Testament the same God as the New Testament? Does God have a personality disorder? Or are we talking about two distinctly different Gods?

Why the change from fire and brimstone, smoting the unbelievers, to loving and caring?

 

 

just out of curiosity...how much of the Bible have you actually read?  Be honest now.

I have read enough to know about the Council of Nicea, and that it was written by the hand of men. Other than that, enlighten me.

Why does the God of the Old Testament behave differently then the God of the New Testament?

Is the God of the Old Testament Jewish, or Christian?

Is the God of the New Testament Jewish, or Christian? 

Why does God allow Christians to eat pork, but not Jews?

 

The Jews are his chosen people. This have never changed. The laws he had in the OT were there becuase they needed to free themselves of sin. With Jesus that changed he cleaned us of our sins. Thing is though he also taught the laws of the OT he did not just pass them off.

So Jesus freed God's choosen people of sin? Yet, Jews don't seem to believe that, they don't seem to accept that God sent his son to die for them. Why would they not believe God's word that Jesus was his son, and died for their sins? Why would they not see the light, and continue to follow only the Old Testament?

If it's the same God, and the same message, shouldn't they have converted to Christianity? 

And what about the Muslims, they believe in one God, is it the same God as the Jews, or the Christians, or a different God?

If the Jews had accpected Jesus like you stated then the rest of the world would not have gotten a chance to come to know him. If you havent noticed Jews arent big on converting people. He would also not have been sacafriced as it was the Jews who had done it. By Jesus bneing killed on the cross it gave everyone else the chance to come to know him and God.

Originally posted by Adamantine

 

Originally posted by KrAzYBLADE

Actually the old testament and new testament God are the same.... The old testament shows God's law, justice, wrath. The new testament shows his mercy, grace, love and his willingness to have us closer to him. [...]

Uh, if you actually read the jewish parts of the bible, you will find that this is not so. The god of the old testament is also very forgiving. He forgives Abraham, a quite fearful person, repeatedly, for example.

 

 

Yes he also forgave David and a number of other people too. The reasone his law justice and wrath are not seen as much in the NT is becuase it about how the disciples spread his teachings. But a quick look at revelation shows just how much wrath he will have in the end times.

Originally posted by Arndur

 

Originally posted by olddaddy

 

Originally posted by Arndur

Originally posted by olddaddy

 

Originally posted by Draenor

Originally posted by olddaddy

 

Originally posted by daeandor

If you want to clump American Christians into one big group, I'd say you'd need to look more at the New Testament rather than the Old Testament.  They are distinctly different, and sometimes contradictory in regards to God's disposition toward mankind.

 

Edit:  I hadn't read vampir's response before I posted this...

Okay, I'll bite.....

 

So, why the persoanlity differences? Is the God of the Old Testament the same God as the New Testament? Does God have a personality disorder? Or are we talking about two distinctly different Gods?

Why the change from fire and brimstone, smoting the unbelievers, to loving and caring?

 

 

just out of curiosity...how much of the Bible have you actually read?  Be honest now.

I have read enough to know about the Council of Nicea, and that it was written by the hand of men. Other than that, enlighten me.

Why does the God of the Old Testament behave differently then the God of the New Testament?

Is the God of the Old Testament Jewish, or Christian?

Is the God of the New Testament Jewish, or Christian? 

Why does God allow Christians to eat pork, but not Jews?

 

The Jews are his chosen people. This have never changed. The laws he had in the OT were there becuase they needed to free themselves of sin. With Jesus that changed he cleaned us of our sins. Thing is though he also taught the laws of the OT he did not just pass them off.

So Jesus freed God's choosen people of sin? Yet, Jews don't seem to believe that, they don't seem to accept that God sent his son to die for them. Why would they not believe God's word that Jesus was his son, and died for their sins? Why would they not see the light, and continue to follow only the Old Testament?

If it's the same God, and the same message, shouldn't they have converted to Christianity? 

And what about the Muslims, they believe in one God, is it the same God as the Jews, or the Christians, or a different God?

Muslims split off at Abraham. While Christans and Jews follow through the line of people who had God's blessing.

 

If the Jews had accpected Jesus like you stated then the rest of the world would not have gotten a chance to come to know him. If you havent noticed Jews arent big on converting people. He would also not have been sacafriced as it was the Jews who had done it. By Jesus bneing killed on the cross it gave everyone else the chance to come to know him and God.

So, God decided to cut His choosen people, the Jews, out of the salvation through the belief in Jesus Christ picture simply because if they accepted Jesus as his son the truth would not have spread? So those early believers that Jesus was the son of God were not Jews? Must of been Romans, like in someplace named Nicea, eh?

And why would God tell Mohammad to split off at Abraham? I mean, if he's the same God as the God of the Jews, wouldn't he be fine with the Old Testament? And by splitting off at Abraham, doesn't that mean that if he is the same God as the God of the Christians that he's not happy with that New Testament stuff either?

And if he's not happy with any of these three religion's, why doesn't he just send another prophet, or another son, to tell us all how to get it right? Why leave us guessing? Or is that what that Pat Robertson guy is? If so, is maybe we shouldn't be listening to that Jerry Falwell fakkir?

Now, I'm really confused....

Oh! I forgot to mention the story of Job, where god is goaded into handing over the lives of Job's entire family. Satan won this battle, not because he managed to get Job to curse god (which didn't happen), but because he proved that God can be provoked.

A little off topic, but for all the people who hate gays...

The part of the bible (leviticus, part of the old testament) states that...

1. You can't eat shellfish.

2. You can't eat pork.

3. Being gay is a sin.

4. It's okay to have slaves if their not from your country.

5. Much more illogical bullcrap.

This is why I can't stand most religions. The more open minded religions such as buddhism and Asatru (one of two of the first viking religions) are less prejudice, and I can tolerate them more than the ignorant 'believe my ways of life or I'll send you to eternal damnation. It's sad how most Christians, Catholics, whatever, don't know half of their own religion.

Oh, and Christianity is only a popular religion because it pretty much started as a slightly large cult, and than some crusading assholes started torturing, and killing those who wouldn't convert to their religion. They particularly enjoyed hunting the vikings.

---

Originally posted by glord
A little off topic, but for all the people who hate gays...
The part of the bible (leviticus, part of the old testament) states that...
1. You can't eat shellfish.
2. You can't eat pork.
3. Being gay is a sin.
4. It's okay to have slaves if their not from your country.
5. Much more illogical bullcrap.
This is why I can't stand most religions. The more open minded religions such as buddhism and Asatru (one of two of the first viking religions) are less prejudice, and I can tolerate them more than the ignorant 'believe my ways of life or I'll send you to eternal damnation. It's sad how most Christians, Catholics, whatever, don't know half of their own religion.
Oh, and Christianity is only a popular religion because it pretty much started as a slightly large cult, and than some crusading assholes started torturing, and killing those who wouldn't convert to their religion. They particularly enjoyed hunting the vikings.

---

Indeed, Christianity is not a very nice religion. People preach about God's love this and that, but when they want to be mean they use the same book to justify it.

Christianity is another reason why there's so little attention paid to the environment; rapture is going to come and take everyone away, so why should they care about raping the planet?

Almost all religions are the same.  They start out with good intentions but then end up breeding intolerance.