General Discussion

In order, from least to greatest, here are my reasons for being displeased with all modern mmos currently on the market.  I am not speculating on any of the newer games that have not been released but I will say that I have pretty well given up on this genre.  In my imagination I used to go to worlds.   Now we have a Rosetta Stone for MMO development called Everquest 2.0 - B aka World of Warcraft.

Although its a great day for businessmen in the sense that they have found ways to jam these game worlds into forumlas and processes that produce the results THEY want, the original spirit of this genre is basically completely gone and replaced with some other form of entertainment.  I don't know if the worlds of the old days will ever exist again because the tendency of the genre is towards this all powerful cash cow of World of Warcraft modeled implementation. Indeed, the aims of a gamer who wants to be entertained with a mmorpg world and the aims of producers who want to mass produce these worlds are at odds with this newly validated Rosetta stone.

How can 10 million people be wrong?  ....maybe 5 million are playing because there's no other game in town.?

5.  Level based games.  Although there's nothing really wrong with level based progression, its the core construct for the ability to serialize game objects such as mobs and therefore paves the way for repetition of content. Level based games are not evil but their implementations have been.

4.  Soul bound items.  Someone needs to make a game that doesnt have bind on equip.  yes I've heard the arguments. The great MMO Rosetta Stone tells us that it will wreck the economy,  again = throw out that old way of thinking....that proverbial stone is the undoing of this genre.

3. over use of human death.  I am not against the notion of doing battle with a humanoid object in a game world.  But if there are 25 morons standing i and a field and I walk up and kill each one one by one thats just plain stupid.  Also, how can you really RP alignment if your holy paladin warrior has killed 10000 people before hitting 40.  Less combat more meaninful encounters are required.   If im playing a mmo and I need to drop Mr. Mob then I want to know what he did - not just be some jackass chasing me around.(of course random encounters are welcome)

2.  over use of magic items and gear.  "This great ring was forged in the fires of Mt Kick ass in the last age" ....then WTF is it doing on this rat???  Mobs that can should drop gear, magic items should exist but be about 1/500th as rare (but nonetheless equally available).  When i get a ring of magicness I should be able to tell you the story of how i got that ring.

1. Trivialization of the experience.  My main point encapsulates all the others I've written.  Magic is fun, slaying monsters is fun but more is not always better.  The rewards from finishing tasks have become trivial.  The content has become trivial and basically a means to the next end.  There are some things we have learned, surely, from the evolution of this genre that we can feel safe to use (of course even that point is arbitrary) but I don't want a World of Kraft Dinner, instantly ready for my consumption.

1- "Endgames enforcement".  Raiding/RvR/PvP all lack.

2- see #1

3- see #2

4- see #3

5- In doubts, remove any Raiding/RvR/PvP component and the game could only be better.

Honestly, I play for what I see at level 1.  Not for what a geek in his mom's basement dream I should do in his game.  If what I see at level 1 doesn't please me, I won't stick around.  If you change it later on, I will quit.  As simple as that.  You can refine and improve it, make it more complex.  But you EXPAND rather than SWITCH.

I agree a lot with the OP, why does amazing things come out stupid mobs lol I'm still looking for a modern MMO to actually have a storyline and purpose, instead of kill this then this and then this, you might get to craft but it will cost u all ur money and be meaningless as mobs drop better items and are alot easier to kill.

If anyone knows a game that isn't like the rest let us know lol

"Modern MMO's" Did I miss something .... when did mmo's go back in time to become old ... the MMO's have only really been around in the current incarnation for maybe 12 years (This leaves out old text based games) One would think a generation of players would need to happen before the referance of "Modern" could be used.

But I do agree a good Sandbox game is missing in the current line up.

Why come to these forums if all mmos suck?  Are you trying to save me?

I only kinda agree, but I imagine we want totally different games.

5. Extremely agree ...levels are a time killer to keep you playing

4. Extremely agree ...non repairable durabilty is the answer to soul bound items (You die 10-50 times that item is gone)

3. Totally disagree ...Less pve ..pvp combat doesnt get stale like pve combat(being on the wrong side is good enough reason to me)

2. Kinda agree ...Why does the item have to be magical at all? Why cant it just be an item?

1. kinda agree ...Why do i have to do there stupid tasks at all? My goal should be to survive and conquer! (or become rich)

No matter what the game is:

Everyone has been playing eq1 with a sprinkling of daoc battlegrounds thrown in as an afterthought  and dont even know it.( especially the kids of the first gen of mmorpg'ers. which even my kids are 12-20 now and still have no clue what EQ1 is, but will talk **it about it..mheh)

guess what game they mainly played?(but they dont anymore..total loss of interest after the scant content has been blasted thru) take a guess :)

EQ1 has had new servers come up and down, merge and cluster yadda yadda.....basically imo, all the games that are out, to date...are just a new server of eq1.  All the newer games (2002 onward) are devoid of anything new with 90% less content, player interaction and interest. the only thing 'new' is : most all players and games are on cable now -  gone are the days of mass dialup ld's, small comp's RAM pissing out on zone load in, etc..etc... (these things are what i consider the "polish" that everyone keeps talking about...heh).

With any game that has come out since around 2000-2002, nothing has changed since eq1... its all the same. over and over and over and over, no matter how you slice it. Sure one game may let you build a guildcity or one may let you do something else slightly different or even some may ride on the success of previous mmorpgs and ONLY put out what is considered 'safe' and what 'works' and people call it <ahem> "polish"...lol..hilarious.

mmorpgs arent Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games anymore.......they are Single Player Online with LOTS of People around to "USE" when needed and have no true interaction with, games.

S.P.O.L.P.G.'s?

In Spirit I agree 100 percent with the OP.

However, I do have some thoughts on this topic.

First, the money, time, and creativity required to create a truly good mmorpg is simply too much for most teams to pull off.

I also assume the people paying for the project often meddle and ruin the games.

So what we are really looking for is a good team with the least meddling that has enough funding.

Blizzard could do this if they chose with a next generation game, as they have infinite funding now.

(Not saying I like WoW, just pointing out they have the money and manpower angles covered for a future project)

I have played a lot of mmorpg's now, and I feel each one has one or two fantastic features/ideas, but also a lot of weaknesses. If only all the good features of each game were brought together!

1. I agree, this is the result of marketing to the masses, and the masses want instant gratification
2. I agree, see #1 for the reason
3. Depends on the game and the lore, set up a stong system of opposing factions with the right lore and there can be a very good reason why a pally is killing all those people (He's a servent of the lich that rules the enemy kingdom waging war with the Holy Empire?) Generally though you are correct on this, give me solid lore reasons to be killing npc xyz. Have severe in game consequences for random killings.
4. Some means needs to exist to prevent items from just accumulating and most people have screaming fits over permanent item degredation or item breakage. No-drop gear seems to be the least vehemently opposed solution. Reference back to #1
5. Level based is more a style of gameplay, nothing really wrong with it as long as the game has viable content and interesting stories at all levels of gameplay.
6. The biggest problem of all        A JADED PLAYERBASE       back 10 years ago we were all noobs, we had no clue what raiding was, there was no race to endgame. We took our time, explored the world, interacted with other plaers, and could quote obsure lore off the top of our heads. These days people burn their way though a game without ever taking the time to understand the world it is set in. They they commence to complaining about a lock of end game content. or start whining that class X in game A is not as good as class Y in game B.