Originally posted by Sevenwind

 

Originally posted by Thunderous

Some people will pay to play anything, and then defend it like their life depends on it.

Fanbois who play games that are clearly garbage (and yes TR is one of them despite decent combat) hold back this industry from truly making changes and giving us quality games.

Unfortunately people for the most part aren't very intelligent.  MMO gamers are no different.  They will play anything.  They have little standards.

Wow way to go calling people ignorant because they like a game you do not all based on "your" opinion.

 

I highly doubt people would pay to play TR or any game if they thought it sucked.

 

I like the part where he doesn't mention a single negative aspect of the game in question... way to add something of substance to the discussion.

Why do people take so much offense when other people enjoy a game they don't?  I have been playing games for 25 years in all mediums and I really enjoy TR.  I love Sci-Fi and combat orientated games and TR fulfills both these requirements.  A major pull for me is the world TR is set in, the storyline and the fact NPC's force you to react instead of standing around waiting to be pulled and ganked.  Yes I feel it can have some improvements but the game runs really well, the graghics played on max look amazing and the community (EU server)  is probably the best I have seen in a long time.  So if you don't like or even hate the game then deal with it, play something else and just except the fact that people like the game and no matter how much you want it to fail its not going to any time soon.  I am just glad trolls who post shite like this don't play.

Originally posted by Sevenwind

 

Originally posted by Thunderous

Some people will pay to play anything, and then defend it like their life depends on it.

Fanbois who play games that are clearly garbage (and yes TR is one of them despite decent combat) hold back this industry from truly making changes and giving us quality games.

Unfortunately people for the most part aren't very intelligent.  MMO gamers are no different.  They will play anything.  They have little standards.

Wow way to go calling people ignorant because they like a game you do not all based on "your" opinion.

 

I highly doubt people would pay to play TR or any game if they thought it sucked.

 

I never used the word "ignorant"...

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by Sevenwind

 

Originally posted by Thunderous

Some people will pay to play anything, and then defend it like their life depends on it.

Fanbois who play games that are clearly garbage (and yes TR is one of them despite decent combat) hold back this industry from truly making changes and giving us quality games.

Unfortunately people for the most part aren't very intelligent.  MMO gamers are no different.  They will play anything.  They have little standards.

Wow way to go calling people ignorant because they like a game you do not all based on "your" opinion.

 

I highly doubt people would pay to play TR or any game if they thought it sucked.

 

I like the part where he doesn't mention a single negative aspect of the game in question... way to add something of substance to the discussion.

The game has no purpose, little direction, really no substance.

I do like the NPC drops and the combat is fun.  However, it ends there.  If this game could be classified as an arena, fine, do it.  But this game tries to pretend it has a story, an RPG element, and interaction that isn't combat.

After the combat there really is nothing.  It is fun at first though.  But to be playing this game for months and months just seems almost absurd.

Originally posted by green13

 

Originally posted by safwd

If you are only willing to pay for a video game that you are certain you will like and wont be a let down, especially in the MMO genre, then never buy a game again.

I have 6 MMOs in my desk drawer right now and i really only liked one of them. Not to mention the numerous Betas and free trials that i did for games i ended up not liking.

Of all the mmos I've bought, it'd only be AO, CoH and WoW that I didn't regret purchasing within a couple of weeks. And all of them, released a loooooong time ago.

Older games are much more polished than new games. If you have a good concept then it's only a matter of polishing the edges and adding more content. I think this mister Richard something might be a little confused about the whole thing and that too much depends on him alone.

Originally posted by Thunderous

99% of MMO's suck.

Ever consider the fact that maybe you either just don't like MMOs or you have unrealistic expectations from video games?  I have played about 10 MMOs and really enjoyed 5 or 6 of them.  Even the ones I wasn't crazy about, I don't hate enough to haunt their forums and bash them.  I can't imagine spending any of my leisure time on a hobby I felt sucked 99% of the time... Oh how it must suck being you. ;)

Its  too little to late, had they  keep  to the original gameplan  that they stated  for  the  post launch, 2 week patch cycles,   PAU's crafting revamp  early  08  everything  would  be  fine and  great. but they didnt  they cut  the dev team back, slowed dev cycle of content ;when was the last time we got a new instance? (1.4 i think), I mean  Hollowing maw and decent arent  even  finished and they are   want to boast  the xp rate in1.6  with no end game in sight, there has only been 1 NON PVP event on pegasus  that was the  earth  Remember day that was  a total failure . its game over, Funcom did a better job with botch launch of AO  and i have much better hope with AOC than TR

Come back after the poor beta which i did not enjoy,  and now im enjoying the game.

Simple.

Played Wow for 2 and half years and no longer enjoy or play the game.

Simple.

I might change my mind again in another few months and in the experience ive had in all gaming over the last 20 years is never right any game off, just go back and keep having a look now and again and you never know.

I still sub to Swg every 6 months or so for a month to go check it out with fingers crossed :)

Well, I do like how TR plays now, with the AIs actually being given a few tricks up their sleeves (like the light benders). It makes the mobs more challenging. If they continue on this track, I suspect we could see a decent game from it. Again I say could, it depends on if NCsoft's decisions to keep it afloat. I wouldn't blame them for canceling it after a year, Richard and his brother effectively fleeced the parent corp for all that it had that's for sure.

-- Brede

Originally posted by Salvatoris

 

Originally posted by Thunderous

99% of MMO's suck.

 

Ever consider the fact that maybe you either just don't like MMOs or you have unrealistic expectations from video games?  I have played about 10 MMOs and really enjoyed 5 or 6 of them.  Even the ones I wasn't crazy about, I don't hate enough to haunt their forums and bash them.  I can't imagine spending any of my leisure time on a hobby I felt sucked 99% of the time... Oh how it must suck being you. ;)

Well I have little time to play games anymore and especially ones I don't really enjoy.

I played UO, Pre-CU and CU SWG for a long time, played WoW after that for a few months, CoH/CoV for a few months, EVE for a few months...  Played this game, and some others but they really offer the same thing with different skins.

UO, Pre-CU and CU SWG and EVE were the only unique games I played.  Aside from those games they are all the same class/level grindfests. 

There are a number of games coming in the next few years that will change that, hopefully.

Originally posted by Thunderous

 

Originally posted by Salvatoris

 

Originally posted by Thunderous

99% of MMO's suck.

 

Ever consider the fact that maybe you either just don't like MMOs or you have unrealistic expectations from video games?  I have played about 10 MMOs and really enjoyed 5 or 6 of them.  Even the ones I wasn't crazy about, I don't hate enough to haunt their forums and bash them.  I can't imagine spending any of my leisure time on a hobby I felt sucked 99% of the time... Oh how it must suck being you. ;)

 

Well I have little time to play games anymore and especially ones I don't really enjoy.

I played UO, Pre-CU and CU SWG for a long time, played WoW after that for a few months, CoH/CoV for a few months, EVE for a few months...  Played this game, and some others but they really offer the same thing with different skins.

UO, Pre-CU and CU SWG and EVE were the only unique games I played.  Aside from those games they are all the same class/level grindfests. 

There are a number of games coming in the next few years that will change that, hopefully.

Holy crap, you've followed a nearly identical MMORPG-hopping path to mine... except I've played a few more that were wastes of money, and I played EVE inbetween most of it (3-month-long skill training FTL).

I would advise not to get your hopes up about this next batch.

• AoC, from the looks of the demos, seems like it will play out just like any other MMORPG with the same content + boobs and gore.
• Aion will likely be another Korean grind-fest.
• WAR is just WoW in a different flavor.
• Star Trek Online is on the fritz in a corporate / political kind of way.
• Darkfall won't be in beta until Duke Nukem Forever (and ever) is released.
• and... it's a safe bet that Huxley will be a Planetside or Unreal + Fury clone.

But hey, they're not done yet, and there's no way I can see the future. Maybe there is hope?

Once again... I have to say that maybe you you just don't like MMOs.  If you played and hated all of them, and expect every one in the future to be the same 'ol crap that you hate... maybe you should look in to some other kind of games, or maybe some other leisure activity all together.  Maybe they have a decent softball league where you live. :)

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Once again... I have to say that maybe you you just don't like MMOs.  If you played and hated all of them, and expect every one in the future to be the same 'ol crap that you hate... maybe you should look in to some other kind of games, or maybe some other leisure activity all together.  Maybe they have a decent softball league where you live. :)

If you eat the same thing every day, you'll eventually hate it.

I've played a lot of MMORPGs, and they all have the same flavor. I hate that flavor. I hate it even more when the company that releases it pretends that it's different (as is the case with Tabula Rasa) and tricks you into buying the same shit with a different stink.

I would really like there to be a good MMOG out there for people who are sick of the same thing, and I know it's possible because this genre is not confined to a template (the WoW template).

It makes me sick that these developers aren't trying new things, it's like they're afraid to even look outside the box; "Oh, I've got an idea... but this other guy's idea makes lots of money... maybe if I strike a balance between them?"

It's not hot, it's not cool, it's just luke-warm.

That mentality produces half-assed, unfinished products like this game. If you like it, that's fine, you're probably too inexperienced to hate it right now. Tabula Rasa == WoW -end game +new combat system. That's it. You get the same type of shit with a new stink... just less mass.

Maybe TR will pull a reverse NGE later on? Ha, I'd like to see that.

Speaking of NGE and SWG...

What really blows my mind is that a lot of people enjoyed SWG at launch; it was broken, missing content, and the core gameplay was quite grindy... kind of like how Tabula Rasa is now, except I liked SWG.

You know why myself and other people liked it?

It wasn't the same as all the other games. It was community-based (not much soloable content) and very open-ended. Fun times were had and many memories were made with friends. However, it was later changed and that blew it all to hell, everything that was unique was gone: loot became the economy, content became more soloable, the professions were changed to classes, and the combat system was changed to be more fast-paced.

Does a new combat system make a game good? Yes and no. Yes, if you've never played anything innovative before. No, if you've had more fun with games that lacked such "good combat". If you take the WoW template and switch a few things out, you're still using the WoW template. Tabula Rasa and SOE's NGE are guilty of such disgusting plagiarism.

At any rate, saying that I just don't like MMOGs is an understatement. I hate them with a passion. I hate what they have become: watered-down piles of luke-warm feces. They are recycled toys re-purposed for the generation of casual, mainstream gamers...

...and for that, I will continue to actively hate them and enjoy doing it.

Eventually, enough people will begin hate MMOGs as they are now, and one day some developer will cash in on the opportunity to shut us all up. I eagerly await that day.

Did we not do this thread a couple times before ?

ha hahaha ...

@Salvatoris...bud... you always have great comments , for the most part - you say it all so I don't have to ever post...but you're never going to actually change they way these people think . A large population will auto-dislike - all - the time.

I like the mmo genre , probably because I did alot of table top when I was young and really enjoyed RPG's all around - the fun to me is just having others around while I am playing , I don't care if I group - I can just kill and bullshit and quest etc...I find that a blast. Now if the game rubs me wrong - I move on.

End game ? who cares ... I don't want to spend my time at max level trying to get better what-ever... TO ME (as in opinion ) getting there - just working my way to max level has always been much more fun than being max level.

Nothing "deserves" to fail except for maybe pedophiles major organs and reality shows.

I'll say it slower : Do ... not... like...it...? ...Go ...somewhere...else.

someone says "man that's why I hate the U.S."

I say "GTFO!" - I will even drive you.

Ouch!

I did not realize I wrote a personal attack there Plasuma. I was just putting an opinion out there. My apologies if you took as such.

[MOD EDIT]

My #1 , "rule of self " ,for lack of better term , that I like to follow and project to as many as I can is this : Think for yourself ! Use logic -  and then decide.

BUT...This is a site about "gaming" and I ,myself, am an "artist" so to speak ,truly believe in ... and very frequently defend other artist's rights to the freedoms they are so deserved. Be it writing , gaming , painting , speaking , hacking , Family Guy :) ...etc...

Brian-washing? there is much of that world-wide , too much and it is sad - I love L Ron Hubbard's Books but.... It is sad that it is so easy to take a few peoples opinion and make it law.  In my opinion something Unique (capital) is the only way to have it - but we do not always get that because of what others may feel is not their "cup of tea".

"a majority of stupidity gets higher say over a minority of reasonable thought." I could not agree with that more.

point is - I was saying that it is simple - I found the change in pace to be a good time - if you don't like it then try something else . The Genre as a whole has not offered me that next EQ 1 (which I gave sony a good 4 yrs of my life for) yet ... and I honestly doubt it will - but anything that is not fantasy / high fantasy actually IS , even if to a minor degree , outside of the norm for the mmo community. Here's to hoping it will start a trend and offer you something you like.

But in retort : I have not "encouraged" anything , I have not "broken" anything and if you have differences or problems with the people who do these thing take it up with them , not me. I am not a leader in politics, I am barely an artist , A gamer , a blue collar worker , a pc geek -

I came from a fairly low income family leaving me no choice but to forgo College and work to to help my ill mother , who suffers parkinsons , shy-drager and a host of other disease. So your correct , I AM undereducated to a degree. I use my love of building PC's and gaming and art - to relieve my mind of the daily bullshit I have been given to deal with. Beyond what I can handle , there are others paid a hell of a lot more to deal with it in my stead.There are just so many posts of people throwing out negativity I thought I would try to explain that there is alot of fun in getting to the end that people overlook in trying to be "end game"

yes I have played almost every MMO since EQ1 - my faves since: EQ2 , City of x... , and now I have been enjoying Tabula Rasa.

It is all just opinion man , do not take me personal - point me at some other games I might enjoy... PLEASE give me GORE , PLEASE! Horror , post apocalyptic , cyberpunk - give me William Gibson -((oh , I do LOVE reading , so I CAN read at least.)) What do YOU enjoy ? I will give it a try , I love to explore.

Sorry man I just don't like to be "grouped in" and think that we all should , as gamers / pc junkies , be a little more constructive to eachother - if I came off otherwise , it is my fault. I am not being a smart ass and rarely do I post so honest . I get tired of too much seriousness sometimes hehe.

GAME ON man and maybe I will catch you in one of your favorite games? ...

-Sagool " Dr Strangematter " Harbaugh

Fell free to msg or email me if you'd prefer not to continue in forum... I can take it !

((*Quote: "Please post your opinions and any criticism about this topic. It's better to have many different perspectives  to help shape the idea than just my own (I find my self-criticism to be unreliable at best)."))

(edited for some things I typed that sounded different to me once I read them over)

---

[MOD EDIT]

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[MOD EDIT]

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Or the developers went where the players were - the EQ type class model.

---

Why do I hate the MMORPG genre? It's because people like you keep encouraging developers to make shitty games like Tabula Rasa for a quick buck.

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Welcome to free enterprise. Companies can make any product they like. If consumers dont like it they wont pay to play. Just because you dont like the game - doesnt make it a shitty game - it just makes it a game you dont like.

---

It's democratic that way: a majority of stupidity gets higher say over a minority of reasonable thought. In the end, someone's opinion is just as good as another guy's... at least until mass-brainwashing comes into the picture, where unique opinions no longer have any pull compared to the weight of all the common ones.

---

Thats right - when everyones opinion is equal - then the many outweigh the few. Thats called society. If you dont like the society you are in - move somewhere else. If you dont like mmorpg's play something else.

But as long as WOW can pull 10 million players - why would any company make anything different? They are in it to make a $ and generate the biggest return for the shareholders.

If you really want something different - find some investors and build your better game.

Cheers _Shadowmage .

sorta off subject - I noticed you were an Aussie -

Do you play the EU server and if so is it busy around 10 - 11 AM your time ?

I am noctournal (central US time) so I have just been watching the server pops at my time of night - just wondering ... and do you guys type with an accent too ? ( joking of course - I know you do :P)

Originally posted by _Shadowmage

 

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Originally posted by Plasuma!!!
Behold why your country is so loathable.

---

 

Yet according to your bio - you live there.

Is my profile supposed to be accurate? The internet is full of lies, why not contribute? I found the most obscure location in the US and put it there for laughs.

 

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This genre was good and different back in the day (probably like the US was in its hay day) but it quickly turned to mush and became a dull shade of grey where fun turned into a mere theory that only looked good on paper (like how evangelists run your country, and how religious freedom is a mere theory).

---

 

Or the developers went where the players were - the EQ type class model.

Strangely enough, EQ and WoW have very few similarities. EQ had hard-core rules that didn't attract casual gamers, and it was a "cult hit" like how Monty Python caught on in the US.

WoW is a very simple MMORPG for very simple people. Tons of simple people int he world, so it has tons of subscriptions. Just because millions of people like something doesn't mean that it's a smart thing to join (the tobacco industry is an excellent example).

 

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Why do I hate the MMORPG genre? It's because people like you keep encouraging developers to make shitty games like Tabula Rasa for a quick buck.

---

 

Welcome to free enterprise. Companies can make any product they like. If consumers dont like it they wont pay to play. Just because you dont like the game - doesnt make it a shitty game - it just makes it a game you dont like.

I accept that you find non-creatively recycled content to be vastly entertaining.

 

---

It's democratic that way: a majority of stupidity gets higher say over a minority of reasonable thought. In the end, someone's opinion is just as good as another guy's... at least until mass-brainwashing comes into the picture, where unique opinions no longer have any pull compared to the weight of all the common ones.

---

 

Thats right - when everyones opinion is equal - then the many outweigh the few. Thats called society. If you dont like the society you are in - move somewhere else. If you dont like mmorpg's play something else.

I suppose you're saying that I can no longer expect good things from this genre? I have played good MMORPGs, but the ones I enjoyed the most have since died or changed to fit the mainstream. That's like living in an English-speaking country that suddenly decided to switch to Arabic. Nothing to be happy about.

The only real respectable MMORPG still alive out there is EVE Online, since they don't care what makes the most money, only what makes their niche happy... and I don't even like EVE right now because I got sick of playing the same thing for 3 years, but I respect the developers for being independent. I don't troll their forums... often.

But as long as WOW can pull 10 million players - why would any company make anything different? They are in it to make a $ and generate the biggest return for the shareholders.

If you really want something different - find some investors and build your better game.

Been there, done that. Yes, I have tried to develop my own game with some friends a long time ago. Shit happened, good friends moved away / lost interest, and the few of us remaining used it as a resume booster to get into Infogrames (Atari).

I quit later and got a much better job at a staffing solutions business with a shiny, comfortable desk... from which I am typing this rant.

So pardon me for not sharing your enthusiasm for what's going on with this industry. Vivendi, SOE, EA, Atari, etc.; they all think the same way: STFU and make money, we don't care about innovation or fun, we need to copy the other guy who makes higher profits!

That's utterly disgusting, and I'm sorry you think it's acceptable.

Originally posted by sagool

Ouch!

I did not realize I wrote a personal attack there Plasuma. I was just putting an opinion out there. My apologies if you took as such.

As far as "politics" go , your right , I do not give a flying rats ass about politics or what happens to anyone aside from myself and my immediate family. Which unfortunately some DO effect me , such as our "president" not realizing that there are not proper taxes and tariffs on imported goods - thereby making goods from "over seas" and Mexico more affordable than what is made at home. Plus we spend way WAAAAY too much time worrying about what other countries do / think and their poor, than we do our own - I do not care for many many many things that my countries government does, but I do appreciate our freedom to disagree and I am but just 1 person.

( I do not do religion , mostly , because I usually just offend  - I'm not a "believer". I am not sure that  evangelists run our country , but I do agree that anyone who believes a single word of it needs to think it over .)

My #1 , "rule of self " ,for lack of better term , that I like to follow and project to as many as I can is this : Think for yourself ! Use logic -  and then decide.

BUT...This is a site about "gaming" and I ,myself, am an "artist" so to speak ,truly believe in ... and very frequently defend other artist's rights to the freedoms they are so deserved. Be it writing , gaming , painting , speaking , hacking , Family Guy :) ...etc...

Brian-washing? there is much of that world-wide , too much and it is sad - I love L Ron Hubbard's Books but.... It is sad that it is so easy to take a few peoples opinion and make it law.  In my opinion something Unique (capital) is the only way to have it - but we do not always get that because of what others may feel is not their "cup of tea".

"a majority of stupidity gets higher say over a minority of reasonable thought." I could not agree with that more.

point is - I was saying that it is simple - I found the change in pace to be a good time - if you don't like it then try something else . The Genre as a whole has not offered me that next EQ 1 (which I gave sony a good 4 yrs of my life for) yet ... and I honestly doubt it will - but anything that is not fantasy / high fantasy actually IS , even if to a minor degree , outside of the norm for the mmo community. Here's to hoping it will start a trend and offer you something you like.

But in retort : I have not "encouraged" anything , I have not "broken" anything and if you have differences or problems with the people who do these thing take it up with them , not me. I am not a leader in politics, I am barely an artist , A gamer , a blue collar worker , a pc geek -

I came from a fairly low income family leaving me no choice but to forgo College and work to to help my ill mother , who suffers parkinsons , shy-drager and a host of other disease. So your correct , I AM undereducated to a degree. I use my love of building PC's and gaming and art - to relieve my mind of the daily bullshit I have been given to deal with. Beyond what I can handle , there are others paid a hell of a lot more to deal with it in my stead.There are just so many posts of people throwing out negativity I thought I would try to explain that there is alot of fun in getting to the end that people overlook in trying to be "end game"

yes I have played almost every MMO since EQ1 - my faves since: EQ2 , City of x... , and now I have been enjoying Tabula Rasa.

It is all just opinion man , do not take me personal - point me at some other games I might enjoy... PLEASE give me GORE , PLEASE! Horror , post apocalyptic , cyberpunk - give me William Gibson -((oh , I do LOVE reading , so I CAN read at least.)) What do YOU enjoy ? I will give it a try , I love to explore.

Sorry man I just don't like to be "grouped in" and think that we all should , as gamers / pc junkies , be a little more constructive to eachother - if I came off otherwise , it is my fault. I am not being a smart ass and rarely do I post so honest . I get tired of too much seriousness sometimes hehe.

GAME ON man and maybe I will catch you in one of your favorite games? ...

-Sagool " Dr Strangematter " Harbaugh

Fell free to msg or email me if you'd prefer not to continue in forum... I can take it !

((*Quote: "Please post your opinions and any criticism about this topic. It's better to have many different perspectives  to help shape the idea than just my own (I find my self-criticism to be unreliable at best)."))

(edited for some things I typed that sounded different to me once I read them over)

Since when does anyone take anything I say seriously? I really didn't know that any bit of what I said about the US was even remotely true!

That's dangerous; taking word-of-mouth from the court jester.

You may hove noticed (by snooping through my profile and authored posts) that Tabula Rasa is my favorite game to hate and I totally change face when posting in the Developer's Corner. I'm actually a somewhat (great overstatement) likable individual in person, but I also love to be hated in forums because I can start arguments and keep my mind sharp for conversations at work.

Damn, I just gave away my cover!

EDIT: Aside from my egotism just now, I don't take offense from anything. What you said that sparked my previous rant really wasn't a personal assault in my mind, but I saw it as a chance to start an argument (because a highly irrational individual, like whom I portray, would see it as something personal).

Now, if you don't mind, I must tend to my bridge.

Apology accepted !

You know,  I believe that - for the most part - I am a fairly LICK-able person as well !

So, once Chrissy , Janet , and I are done feeding my table lamp corn chips, we will swing by the Minimart and pick up some Hobbits and lawn darts. Then we will stop by your bridge and hang out for a while , maybe accost some unweary knights as they try to cross wearing nothing but mustard circles around our nipples while having the girls throw peanut shells and plums at them.

Honestly I have had an eXtreMely bad month , (though it does not matter here really ) and it did feel kinda nice to argue , even if it was in the depths of some forum on some gaming site. Jester ! You make me smile !

- I am a n00b @ being a TR LL . Where I fail, I h0pe 2 learn.

Hmmm what did George W. say ? ... I think it was:

""There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again.""  - the brilliance!

hehehe

(  [MOD EDIT] <----  Joking or not , they are out to prove you right at every turn man )