Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

Watching a video of a raid on the ancient port warehouse ...

It's like WoW's Molten Core all over again. Basically one-step-above-tank n' spank-bosses, and a lot of trash. Boss fights where everyone stands still and casts their spells...

What makes this game so "hardcore" if the end-game PvE content is vastly easier than WoW?

ancient port warehouse is the first and only raid so far.. and it took 1yr after release to get it. With the size of the dev team and the dropping sub numbers that are are inevitable when AoC and WAR and WotLK come out I wouldnt expect any more " sophisticated " raid content soon™

As for what makes this game  "hardcore".. LOL first you have to get people to agree on the definition of hardcore.

What I mean is this ...

I play WoW but there is a big part of me that is bored of it (been playing it on and off ... mostly on ... since it's release 3.5 years ago. It has it's ups and it's downs, like any game ... but this VG forum, and basically every other forum on MMORPG.com use it as the butt end of every joke, with the biggest criticism being that its easy.

I bought VG when it was released Jan 07. I didn't last 2 weeks - not because the game didn't have potential, but because of so many game-crushing bugs. I tried it again during the christmas free-play month and most of those bugs were gone!

However, the reason I can't really make myself get into it is that, as far as I can see, there is no real end-game. The one proper end-game raid is as easy as WoW content was 3 years ago. Many VG'ers seem to take pride in how HARD/HARDCORE their game is, yet I don't see what is hard about it at all. There is no high-end end-game PvP like WoW's arenas, and there is nothing even remotely close to the quality and difficulty of the raid content. Even Kara, the "entry-level" raid in L70 WoW, incorporates a lot more than tankin' and spankin', but tankin' and spankin' and standing still!

Originally posted by _Jord_

 

What I mean is this ...

I play WoW but there is a big part of me that is bored of it (been playing it on and off ... mostly on ... since it's release 3.5 years ago. It has it's ups and it's downs, like any game ... but this VG forum, and basically every other forum on MMORPG.com use it as the butt end of every joke, with the biggest criticism being that its easy.

I bought VG when it was released Jan 07. I didn't last 2 weeks - not because the game didn't have potential, but because of so many game-crushing bugs. I tried it again during the christmas free-play month and most of those bugs were gone!

However, the reason I can't really make myself get into it is that, as far as I can see, there is no real end-game. The one proper end-game raid is as easy as WoW content was 3 years ago. Many VG'ers seem to take pride in how HARD/HARDCORE their game is, yet I don't see what is hard about it at all. There is no high-end end-game PvP like WoW's arenas, and there is nothing even remotely close to the quality and difficulty of the raid content. Even Kara, the "entry-level" raid in L70 WoW, incorporates a lot more than tankin' and spankin', but tankin' and spankin' and standing still!

 

If end game raid content is your thing Vanguard isnt for you.

Originally posted by _Jord_

 

What I mean is this ...

I play WoW but there is a big part of me that is bored of it (been playing it on and off ... mostly on ... since it's release 3.5 years ago. It has it's ups and it's downs, like any game ... but this VG forum, and basically every other forum on MMORPG.com use it as the butt end of every joke, with the biggest criticism being that its easy.

I bought VG when it was released Jan 07. I didn't last 2 weeks - not because the game didn't have potential, but because of so many game-crushing bugs. I tried it again during the christmas free-play month and most of those bugs were gone!

However, the reason I can't really make myself get into it is that, as far as I can see, there is no real end-game. The one proper end-game raid is as easy as WoW content was 3 years ago. Many VG'ers seem to take pride in how HARD/HARDCORE their game is, yet I don't see what is hard about it at all. There is no high-end end-game PvP like WoW's arenas, and there is nothing even remotely close to the quality and difficulty of the raid content. Even Kara, the "entry-level" raid in L70 WoW, incorporates a lot more than tankin' and spankin', but tankin' and spankin' and standing still!

 

As the swede said(!), what is hardcore. In my opinion I don't think the definition on a hardcore game is all about raiding 7/7. If so, I would guess that WoW really would be quite high on the list of hardcoregames.

But I leave "hardcore" for those that takes pride in "oh my god I'm level XX, you suck" sterotypes. Hmm, which makes me think that it (again) would make WoW on the top list of hardcore MMOs.

See where I am getting at?

While some things have been removed and added, for better or worse. The are note worthy difference in WoW and Vanguard that should not be mentioned as hardcore game. Not even harder, the only thing making PVE hard is that you initially don't know what to do. Molten Core was hard when it was release. After the umph time of running it, it's not hard anymore. Nor is any other content in any other game.

Hardcore would be around a definition of the gametype and feel, not really around how hard it is. Besides that wasn't the talk about core players, not hardcore players.

Anyway, I don't remember do anything different in Kara then in MC. Just using some other skills in different occassions and different positions. Same same but difference, which would be quite obvious.

There is alot of things making WoW the buttend of every joke, but the lack of raidcontent is not one of them.

Originally posted by _Jord_

However, the reason I can't really make myself get into it is that, as far as I can see, there is no real end-game. The one proper end-game raid is as easy as WoW content was 3 years ago. Many VG'ers seem to take pride in how HARD/HARDCORE their game is, yet I don't see what is hard about it at all. There is no high-end end-game PvP like WoW's arenas, and there is nothing even remotely close to the quality and difficulty of the raid content. Even Kara, the "entry-level" raid in L70 WoW, incorporates a lot more than tankin' and spankin', but tankin' and spankin' and standing still!

 

Watching some video would not tell you about the difficulty of the fight.  Making through only the 2nd wing in APW, I can say the strategy in taking down every boss is very different that there is no single tank 'n spank wins all solution.  The complexity is comparable to EQ GoD raiding downsized to accomendate a raid size 3 times smaller.

Well i for one was sad when the BC came out because i missed out on all the old endgame raids (i had a craving to kill some dragons), the furthest i got was the 2nd core hound in MC.  i really miss the old raids and i wish both blizzard (which is trying to do something) and the raid community to lay off the more casuals.  i was shouted at in my old guilds for not being able to stay for 4 hours (i consider 2-3 a solid commitment to a raid).  games need to take a leaf out of DnD's book, slap in some demons, dragons and undead and allow the players to crush their evil plans.  BC got too fancy with its raids

hard-core
    1: stubbornly resistant to change or improvement; "hard-core addicts"

    2: intensely loyal; "his hard-core supporters"

    3: extremely explicit; "hard-core pornography"

This about sums up the Vanguard playerbase.

Hardcore stemming from MMO playing in my expierence has been left to games that require you to grind nonstop to level up."Hardcore Grinding"

Anytime someone devotes as much free time possible to one thing would
deem them as " Hardcore *insert activity* "

I'm not gonna lie after grinding Swamp armor and going into the APW this is pretty much what made me realize this was a dead end game. To have tank engage a mob and have all the healers (certain ones) one finger mash a certain heal over, and over and over again while burning a mob with a gazillion hit points was just boring to me.

I remember a friend in SWG had made a mention to me  one time and I have agreed on this every since. There should be more than "one" correct way to engage a raid mob if the person(s) are organized in a group. A boss mob on encounter should be dangerous based on the specials they do "not" on how much health they have.

The developers of Vanguard have not thought out the box yet and have pretty much failed with this turd of a game. Anygame where you cannot use your specials have to carry 100 sets of different resist armor or the boss mob is set up only based off "uber" raidcentric guild's feed back is not the game for me (and probably 95% of the other casual players MMO community).

Maybe at "relaunch" and another 2-3 years (when they finally put good "quality" content in the game) they will pull a Moses or Jesus (miracle).

To answer your question, there is nothing "hardcore" about this game if you have the right levels (50) and "all" have enough "TIME" you can pretty much do anything in the game (notice emphasis put on time).