Originally posted by Battleskar

... it me or does it just seem like the game companies just do not have a feel for what us gamers really want in a game.

It's no secret that since MMO's have come out of the "geek" age and into the mainstream, MMO development has overwhelmingly become about making the almighty dollar in the fastest way possible.  The developers will do whatever it takes to get the most income into their coffers.  If that means pumping out WoW clone after WoW clone, that's what they will do.  Apparently it works, because people keep laying down their money for these games, which tells other developers to keep doing the same thing.

Think about it if it were YOUR money that you had to spend for the development of a game.  You have to take every dime out of every account you own, mortgage your house, and sell your dog to raise the money to develop a new MMO.  Would you want to create a game that you really enjoy, but only about 20,000 other people would like, or would you want a game that was pretty boring to you, but 5 million people would like to play?  This is a difference of recouping the money from your initial investment and breaking even in 3 years, or 1 month. 

What would you do?  If you chose the "getting money the fastest way possible" option, you get a gold star and you are now a successful game developer.

IMO, once WOW dies down we'll really see what the "market" wants.  All of the new MMO players that WOW brought in will be looking for a new MMO and I'd be willing to be that many of them won't stick around for a clone of the game they just got tired of...

To me, the "Make a WoW foundation" is a dying breed, but is being replaced with the GW field. Free-to-play is becoming a bigger market, especially when you make more money after-market (Some F2Ps use premium pricing plans, ie to get goooood items you pay), but, like the P2P market, you get a lot of bunk.

What would be the best MMO? One that does give plenty of player choice, more varied races (ie real 3D characters like centaurs and nagas), a decent story, good real-time combat (ala PSO), and the ability to choose PVE or PVP (via servers if needed). I'll be waiting while a good MMO comes around.

The developers know that they are out of touch.  They are activily seeking input to make their games better.  They want to give the players what they want.

I know this because the company I work for is doing a study to find out what the player wants.

They have just started collecting basic information from players in order to form a panel to give the developer feedback.  Once the panel is in place, future studies will be conducted  for your opinions on more specific things.

Anyway - if you want a chance to tell them what you think - sign up -

http://www.webopinions.org/studies/c59/80234/default.asp

This is just the qualifier for more things to come.

Originally posted by webopinions

The developers know that they are out of touch.  They are activily seeking input to make their games better.  They want to give the players what they want.

I know this because the company I work for is doing a study to find out what the player wants.

They have just started collecting basic information from players in order to form a panel to give the developer feedback.  Once the panel is in place, future studies will be conducted  for your opinions on more specific things.

Anyway - if you want a chance to tell them what you think - sign up -

http://www.webopinions.org/studies/c59/80234/default.asp

This is just the qualifier for more things to come.

 Unfortunately, unless they do a real survey, they won't get anything. Instead of making a qualifying remark of playing a mainstream MMORPG (I got disqualified because I play Fiesta), just ask what I want. Would I be willing to pay for a good MMO? Yes. Am I going to just to answer a survey? No.

I think they listen too much to the gamers. As with a lot of things whoever cries the loudest gets the attention and the game turns into a bloated unbalanced mess.

i do think they're out of touch, if the success of WoW is any indication, what the VAST majority of gamers want is something more casual and solo friendly as opposed to another epic group grind fest that requires them to take regular vacations in order to participate in the game.  all these hardcore mmorpg's that are coming out are only for the lifers, which as much as i'm sure they get a woody over (being incorrectly viewed as THE market), is a very limited market.

it seems like devs are still stuck on making the next everquest, even when that formula (aside from the first time) has failed over and over again in terms of reaching critical mass appeal.

games like WoW are popular exactly BECAUSE they're not another everquest wannabe.

i think there is a seriously huge untapped base of players, that probably dwarfs even WoW, who would love to play online mmorpgs, if they felt they could actually enjoy the game on their own schedules rather than having to look for groups, or raids or even wasting time being IN groups to progress/explore/enjoy all that a game has to offer.

people love to socialize, they just don't love being forced to do so.  most of the grouping in current mmorpg's is akin to mutual leeching off of each other.  the basic mentality is "I need to finish this quest to get this sword, but i can't solo it, so i have to find someone else to help me..." so what do you do, you put up a LFG flag and join with people who, more often than not, you don't know, care to know, or generally give one flying F about, and would have no objection to PK'ing after accomplishing your quest if the game allowed you to.  you leech off each other's talents to perform something and then move on to the next quest.  people that do it enough end up joining guilds so that their pool of group  members has a slightly higher level of inter-member respect, but even then, most of the time its done for the leeching aspect, and nothing else, you NEED to group to progress and/or even enjoy the treadmill.   yes i know guilds also have many RL friends in them, but its the exception, not the rule.

i'm NOT saying grouping is bad, i'm saying its bad WHEN you're forced to group to progress.  and finding a solo grind spot is NOT being solo friendly (cough WoW/LOTRO.POS)

case in point, even something as simple as SIMS, yeah, its not an mmorpg, but the fundamentals of the game are that its easy to get into, easy to get lost in (in a good way), and can be played on the person's own schedule.  that's not a function of being solo focused, that's a function of being intelligently designed.

Originally posted by webopinions

The developers know that they are out of touch.  They are activily seeking input to make their games better.  They want to give the players what they want.

I know this because the company I work for is doing a study to find out what the player wants.

They have just started collecting basic information from players in order to form a panel to give the developer feedback.  Once the panel is in place, future studies will be conducted  for your opinions on more specific things.

Anyway - if you want a chance to tell them what you think - sign up -

http://www.webopinions.org/studies/c59/80234/default.asp

This is just the qualifier for more things to come.

I hope they want more information than what they had on there .. again their surveys are as limited as the games that are produced these days. Enough with the limitations !!! * stomps foot!*

Originally posted by webopinions

The developers know that they are out of touch.  They are activily seeking input to make their games better.  They want to give the players what they want.

I know this because the company I work for is doing a study to find out what the player wants.

They have just started collecting basic information from players in order to form a panel to give the developer feedback.  Once the panel is in place, future studies will be conducted  for your opinions on more specific things.

Anyway - if you want a chance to tell them what you think - sign up -

http://www.webopinions.org/studies/c59/80234/default.asp

This is just the qualifier for more things to come.

this survey misses the main point of getting input, its eliminating people who currently DON'T play any of the listed titles.  Those are the people you DO want to hear from, as in WHY they're not paying/playing for any games.  That's a lot more valuable to fixing the issues than listening to people who are more or less content enough with the system the way it is to actually pay the monthly fees.

instead of focusing on the players that ARE paying and trying to 'steal' them into something new, why not focus on the completely untapped base that is vastly larger.

Originally posted by araczynski

it seems like devs are still stuck on making the next everquest, even when that formula (aside from the first time) has failed over and over again in terms of reaching critical mass appeal.

games like WoW are popular exactly BECAUSE they're not another everquest wannabe.

I've seen on these boards people telling the bads of EQ1, the good of EQ1, but nobody can really say for sure what made the game so addictive and enjoyable to the point where it could be transferred into another model.

Originally posted by UsualSuspect

 

Originally posted by araczynski

it seems like devs are still stuck on making the next everquest, even when that formula (aside from the first time) has failed over and over again in terms of reaching critical mass appeal.

games like WoW are popular exactly BECAUSE they're not another everquest wannabe.

I'm more of the assumption that developers can't figure out what made EverQuest such a success. They try to replicate it but always miss out on a key point that they can't quite put their finger on.

 

I've seen on these boards people telling the bads of EQ1, the good of EQ1, but nobody can really say for sure what made the game so addictive and enjoyable to the point where it could be transferred into another model.

i always thought it was simple, it was a completely new experience.  first 3D mmo (i believe), brought the ultima online feeling to 'life' if you will.  plus there was no other choice outside of ultima online.

the 'new experience' part of any modern mmorpg can now only be said by those that have never played an MMORPG before, to everyone else, its old hat.  as for 3D, well, that's pretty old hat as well.  so they need to get past both of these points and actually put some serious effort into mass appeal.  since gamers are pretty much swimming in 'choice' right now.

just because you bleach recycled toilet paper isn't going to make it a funner experience...

speaking of toilet paper, i'm curious if anyone has run into any NDA leaked info about age of conan?  i'm consider buying the game, but not sure if it'll be more of the same again...  i heard someone leaked that its like vanguard, which is a step in the wrong direction if vanguard's lack of mass appeal is of any idication...

Originally posted by araczynski

speaking of toilet paper, i'm curious if anyone has run into any NDA leaked info about age of conan?  i'm consider buying the game, but not sure if it'll be more of the same again...  i heard someone leaked that its like vanguard, which is a step in the wrong direction if vanguard's lack of mass appeal is of any idication...

AFAIK, AoC is quite differant from what we've seen from the industry so far.

However, wait until it is released, see what people say, check some screenies and videos then, and if you like what you see grab a copy.

I personally will likely be buying it, barring a worst case scenario.

thanks wharg, i hear the NDA is being lifted this weekend, so hopefully the beans are spilled and people will  be OMGBBQWTF!@'ing instead of saying its the suckage.