Originally posted by Alan0n

 

Ok - lest assume one thing.  Lets assume that every class and every spec out there is presented at start with really good ppl playing their spec and class.  Or are the very good players going for the very good classes or the gimped classes and specs ?  Well.. dunno  u make the the call. 

 

Are all healing druids just so good players ?  It has nothing to do with that.  What it has to do with is the fact that some classes and some specs are given BETTER CHANCES of progressing compared to others.  It doesn't mean that there are only bad healing shamans around in 2v2. 

And about time - How much time is needed to progress a character is always based on ppl opinions.  THats why we have hardcore games and even very punishing games with rulesets like you might loose items that took you months to get if you die.  But it doesnt change the fact that all players should have same chance of progressing based no same amount of long term gameplay.  Now ask yourself over the last 3 seasons of Arena if thats the case.  And that would be ok really if not for the fact that NOTHING can be done about it cause it affects ANOTHER aspect of the game. 

Now - I dont care if I play a spec that doesn't kill mobs fastest so I will end up lvling slower than some other of same class.  BUt what I do expect that it will be balanced out in OVERALL balance of the game - and then Im NOT talking about one spec made for PVP and another for PVE.  Every spec and every class should have equal chance of balance.  Now go ask those ret paladins that had no resilliance on their first 2 season of Arena how they did in 2v2 ?  And you think that would have been tollerated by Warlocks or DPS warriors ?  

No - it was directly done to give that spec less chance of progress.   And how did that effect whole year of dps plate wearing class?  while another dps plate wearing class did what ? I suggest you find the statistics from Kalgan to compare.

Ok, I made my point so I'm just gonna observe now

Originally posted by skinnys

The way i see it, WoW has become the CS 1.6 of the MMO-world. Alot of people will continue to play it for a long time, but there is still room for other games on the market. People have not stopped playing other FPS' but it is still CS 1.6 that dominates that market.

Super good analogy there. This is how my friends and I see WOW now. There is no depth in wow at all. Nothing you do matters to anybody. It simply has become a 1.6 CS where we all just log in, get our fill of pvp with arenas or bg's then log. We all got bored of the same old crap and the lack of a player controlled world. Now more of us are playing DOTA or smash brothers brawl to fill out pvp itch.

Originally posted by elvenangel

Actually Alan you are extremely forceful with your opinions.  Perhaps if you toned it down a notch and spelled correctly and avoided using leet speech more people would respect what you have to say.    You state things in such a way that it comes off as if its a 100 percent fact, that you know it all, that you are correct and everyone else is wrong.   If thats not what your trying to do toning down the way you approach subjects would do you a world of good.

The subject of this thread is if you'd go back to WOW if WAR or AoC failed...you've gone completely off topic.   You could of easily come along and said "No I would never go back" and been done with it.  Instead you went on a tyranical anti WoW speech and actually argued with a few people who do like WoW and are happy with what it offers.  You went as far as to call those types of people nubs.   I may not like wow and I have my personal dislike for it but I can see why some people do and I respect that (or atleast try to until they come around spouting BS about a game I like then I get ticked off).

Contrary to belief WoW is a good game.  And like its predecessors it has just as much bad along with the good.  There is no such thing as the perfect mmo game.  The day that happens I believe the moon will eclipse the sun and remain that way forever thus turning the earth into a frozen tundra.  (hell freezes over rofl).

Ive never said WoW is a bad MMO.  Never ever - I just say my opinion on the game atm.  And to do that I usually bring out facts that sadly are true but also might make me sound like Im always right.  Thats not nessiserily the case.  Im not any more right than Kalgan when he brought out his statistics on PVP balance in the game.  He just desided to present it in another way.   

If you say Im lying then ok - I will correct myself. 

And as in terms of spelling and grammar.  Im not English speaking.  That doesn't make me any less of a MMO player tho.   Im not here hiding where Im from.  But it doesn't make me any more right or wrong.  And it doesn't make your statements any more right or wrong playing the spelling card =)

I've already stated both in this topic and others what my personal opinion is.  Me saying many ppl have given up on WoW is not based on just me - Most of the ppl that I played with for the past 3 years feel the same.  That doesn't mean all do.

The rest of the of topic discussion here goes into answering ppl that directly went offtopic by refering to other posts I had made earlier in another post.  Some ppl just love to do that =)

But if you want clear answer - I dont play wow any more - I wont go back if AOC or WAR don't deliver.  And I wont go back based on my personal opinions that I have stated here before.  So if ppl dont agree with my personal opinions then so be it.  

Originally posted by Alan0n

 

Originally posted by Travizty

 

Originally posted by Alan0n

 

Originally posted by Ascension08

 I wish that every person had the chance to progess equally, I really do. That's more a matter of opinion though.

Just the fact that one healing class (druids) is at this time better suited to get endgame items playing with one other person - means that right now many more druids are created ingame and will increase the overall unbalance of the game even more IF blizzard will try to blanance the PVP abilites of druids.  Not to mention the warriors.  Most played spec and class ingame is now progressing fastest and easiest in 2v2 MMO.  That will just mean one thing.  More of those will be created. 

 

Alright first off, I am not defending WoW by no means. But I am a long time player and assuming both of you guys are too, you need to get your facts straight. With regards to players progressing equally, as long as there are players like me (who play 8+ hours everyday) and players like you (play less than that) I will continue to progress faster. Simple enough, you cannot blame a game dev company because you can't put the time in.

Next, your shpeal about Druids and Warriors sounded good but is completly in accurate. From day 1 Hunters and Rogues have been the most popular classes across servers and continue to be to date. And that goes for Ali and Horde combined. Look it up http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php?serverid=595

And finaly to address the on going cry over OP toons. Assuming we are making reference to PVP. I have NEVER crossed paths with ANY class in BG or in world pvp that I couldn't kill. I have however crossed paths with certain people that would whoop my ass over and over. Do not confuse a players ability to play they're character with that class being OP. There are ALOT of people out there that are really good at playing they're class, this does not mean that class is OP. In my opinion alot of people that play video games play the wrong class, they play a class because they want to not because its the best suited class for they style of game play. Now this doesn't mean they are in wrong for doing so, its your game, play it however you want, I'm not paying your $15/month Iam not gonna tell you how to play. But think about it, if a player is accustom to playing a close combat melee style game play, and all of a sudden switches to a caster, clearly there is going to be some struggle here. But they get owned over and over and it just so happens to be by, oh I don't know a hunter (because they are one of the most played classes on they're server) well guess what hunters now become OP... Ya see where I am goin with this? Its all relative, if you don't let your emotions get wrapped up in getting pwn'd, it starts to make sense, and when it does? Then you can to counter getting pwn'd with pwnage until then you will come to forums like this and talk about OP classes.

 

Ok - lest assume one thing.  Lets assume that every class and every spec out there is presented at start with really good ppl playing their spec and class.  Or are the very good players going for the very good classes or the gimped classes and specs ?  Well.. dunno  u make the the call. 

 

Are all healing druids just so good players ?  It has nothing to do with that.  What it has to do with is the fact that some classes and some specs are given BETTER CHANCES of progressing compared to others.  It doesn't mean that there are only bad healing shamans around in 2v2. 

And about time - How much time is needed to progress a character is always based on ppl opinions.  THats why we have hardcore games and even very punishing games with rulesets like you might loose items that took you months to get if you die.  But it doesnt change the fact that all players should have same chance of progressing based no same amount of long term gameplay.  Now ask yourself over the last 3 seasons of Arena if thats the case.  And that would be ok really if not for the fact that NOTHING can be done about it cause it affects ANOTHER aspect of the game. 

Now - I dont care if I play a spec that doesn't kill mobs fastest so I will end up lvling slower than some other of same class.  BUt what I do expect that it will be balanced out in OVERALL balance of the game - and then Im NOT talking about one spec made for PVP and another for PVE.  Every spec and every class should have equal chance of balance.  Now go ask those ret paladins that had no resilliance on their first 2 season of Arena how they did in 2v2 ?  And you think that would have been tollerated by Warlocks or DPS warriors ?  

No - it was directly done to give that spec less chance of progress.   And how did that effect whole year of dps plate wearing class?  while another dps plate wearing class did what ? I suggest you find the statistics from Kalgan to compare.

Alot of what you have said here does even not make sense and in addition to that you have single handedly highjacked this thread and turned it into something it was not intended to be.

Admin please lock it or delete it.

I'm in a different situation as about 6-8 weeks ago my wow account ran out of time and i just never put money back into it, seriously i've been playing potbs and shot-online and even tho i'm bored out of my mind and i litterally sit and stare at my desktop and just think with a little under half of my time nowadays, I don't think i've wasted any time especially when I think about wow, I didn't leave with any bad feelings, and I've come back to the game many times so I know there is a chance I may one day come back, now personally I don't really care much for warhammer, I do however have Age of Conan on preorder at one of my local gamestops and plan to convince one of the people there to hold a card from the other employees so i can actually get one even if i'm first to pickup and theres 5 cards per store supposedly. Now although it is true to say if I ever go back to wow it will be after I have played AoC, I can't necessarily say I will ever really care about wow atleast in the near future and if AoC is anything they say it is regardless of what i have or havent seen in videos, then I won't be back to WoW for a long time, not to mention outside influences to stay away lol, if you haven't noticed people that play other games seem to want to keep other people away aswell.

Originally posted by Ascension08

 

Told you buddy, It's not gonna happen. Only in a perfect game, which isn't coming any time soon. "Should" is definetely the key word here. If you do find a game where you think every class and their corresponding specs is equal, please, let me know. Otherwise "equal" is a matter of opinion and companies care about the MAJORITY, not EVERYONE. Because there's always gonna be people who don't like the way it is. "Overall balance?" That's great, but I doubt the majority cares about that. They want short-term...

 

Ok, I made my point so I'm just gonna observe now

I think you know the answer to that yourself.  Lik you already stated already ppl want short term.   But like I said before - thats also the reason why the long term ppl are looking elsewhere. 

In terms of Majority - My personal opinion is that majority of  WOW players will leave as soon as we get a game out that is of simulare quality in terms of gameplay as WoW with better balanced long term ruleset. I Like you said yourself - this game is about short term.  Sorry - thats not for serious MMO players that are looking for long term progress.  At least when it comes to me.   But then - Im not everyone like u said.  But I still have opinions and sometimes ppl go out quet or they go out screaming.  Blizzard does not determine how ppl go out. 

But like all other custimors - some ppl dont care - others do =) 

Originally posted by Travizty

 Alot of what you have said here does even not make sense and in addition to that you have single handedly highjacked this thread and turned it into something it was not intended to be.

Admin please lock it or delete it.

Read your sig and u see what I meant =)

Locking posts and claiming ppl are hijaking posts going of topic is matter of opinion.  It was not in any way my intention - I just keep answering ppl that claim what I say doesn't make sense =)  Then I will try to explain it better next time

warhammer forever

World of Warcraft is old news.

Even the upcoming clones will provide a little more fun while waiting for the real next-gen (sandbox).

The only reason I have kept on playing WoW for the past year and a half is the PvP, which really blows, but, I have so many friends there.  It's more of a social game.  I do it out of boredom more than I do it because I enjoy it.  Which I don't really enjoy the game at all.  Just my friends.  Every other MMO I have played, its been hard to get a good community of friends to play with.  It seemed like in EQ2 I could run a dungeon and never see the same people again. 

I think there will be so many people try WAR that this wont happen.  Anyway, as soon as it launches I am signing up a 6 month sub just so I can't leave.  I have read almost everyting about the game from the official website,  Warhammer Allinace, and TTH, that from what I am reading and watching in vid's i wouldnt want to leave anyway.  I just hope the World RvR > Scenarios. 

It will be fun to see the WotLK expansion sell a lot, and then one month later WoW subscriptions plummet.  BC was forgiven by most people because it was Blizzard’s first expansion.  Second expansion built around the same rubbish will have a much stronger negative response.  It gets me excited!

Originally posted by nblitz

People should stop supporting rehashing and the MMO's nowadays that have become a hamster-on-a-wheel.

Hit them where it hurts. Their pockets.

That is where you are wrong.

People LOVE hack-n-slash and MMOs are not the only hack-n-slash games. Look at Diablo, Dynasty Warriors, Champion of Norrath and a host of other H&S games.

MMORPGs are just more involved, more complex, with more classes, more content & more items. But in its heart, they are all hack-n-slash. And this is not necessarily a bad thing. Some mindless repetitive hack-n-slash can be good entertainment.

I see people talking about wanting something new from WoW, but if they do some major changes to the game they will upset the majority of the players. I'm not currently playing since I'm in the WAR beta, but a major change would cause more problems.

Also look at games that revamped there games.

DAOC Trials of Atlantis - Made a lot of the pvp community mad when this was release

Star Wars Galaxies - Just look at the forums on this site for info.

Originally posted by scorchshin

I see people talking about wanting something new from WoW, but if they do some major changes to the game they will upset the majority of the players. I'm not currently playing since I'm in the WAR beta, but a major change would cause more problems.

Also look at games that revamped there games.

DAOC Trials of Atlantis - Made a lot of the pvp community mad when this was release

Star Wars Galaxies - Just look at the forums on this site for info.

 

First let me say one thing (something new in WoW) does not necessarily equate to (major changes in WoW).

You really believe a multibillion dollar company can not make new things appear with out upsetting people?  I know you don't believe that.  You and I could think up some new things for WoW that would upset no one, and improve the overall gaming experience.

If Warhammer delivers in that it allows me to run macros like pre TBC wow macros then I won't think about warcraft ever again probably.  Conan is going to suck balls with its left/right attack bull pooey.  Actually I don't think I'll play either so if Biowares MMO or maybe stargate or something comes out with pre TBC macros then I won't look back.  I only play WoW about 6 hours a week now anyway, which obviously wasn't teh case pre TBC when I could just spam one button for Vael and holy nova, shield, or renew based on logic, thank you CastSpell damn you Blizzard.

Originally posted by CreamSoda

 

 

Originally posted by scorchshin

I see people talking about wanting something new from WoW, but if they do some major changes to the game they will upset the majority of the players. I'm not currently playing since I'm in the WAR beta, but a major change would cause more problems.

Also look at games that revamped there games.

DAOC Trials of Atlantis - Made a lot of the pvp community mad when this was release

Star Wars Galaxies - Just look at the forums on this site for info.

 

 

First let me say one thing (something new in WoW) does not necessarily equate to (major changes in WoW).

You really believe a multibillion dollar company can not make new things appear with out upsetting people?  I know you don't believe that.  You and I could think up some new things for WoW that would upset no one, and improve the overall gaming experience.

 

I agree that they could make some new things in WoW that wouldn't upset lot of people. In my opinion though companies want to do something big and bold to there game. They don't always do what the customer wants, but what they think they want.

For example if WoW was able to come up with a pvp system similar to WAR with open field pvp with a purpose it would be a huge success in my mind. (I have not played WoW in a long time and if this is in the game let me know) Open up an area with keeps and things you can take over and defended. People would become even more addicted. I know I would.

Once WAR is release it will be to late though. WoW will suffer lot of players to leave once WAR is release.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

Originally posted by nblitz

People should stop supporting rehashing and the MMO's nowadays that have become a hamster-on-a-wheel.

Hit them where it hurts. Their pockets.

 

That is where you are wrong.

People LOVE hack-n-slash and MMOs are not the only hack-n-slash games. Look at Diablo, Dynasty Warriors, Champion of Norrath and a host of other H&S games.

MMORPGs are just more involved, more complex, with more classes, more content & more items. But in its heart, they are all hack-n-slash. And this is not necessarily a bad thing. Some mindless repetitive hack-n-slash can be good entertainment.

 

 

 

 

 

Everything else I love(d). The journey. It's what I remember the most from back then.

I quit WOW (for the third and maybe final time) about 4 months after the Burning Crusade.

I played it from launch and I have a lot of respect for the game. I got bored of it, but when it was good it was so totally cool.

Now the player base is so huge that wow can afford to lose players and still stay No1. I vowed to never go back. However,  if in 2009 I am unsatisfied with the existing alternatives then I could see myself returning and starting WOW from scratch on a nostalgia trip, and then extend this through the new expansions. WOW is a good game again if you take a long enough break and then, on returning, avoid those things about it that you dont like (i.e in my case that would be rep grinds and raiding).

I am so excited about AOC and Warhammer but I dont see them as wow killers. You would need something that totally rocked - I mean out of this world - to do that.

I am simply looking for "new" games that have solid pvp and that is my motivation for AOC and warhammer. I don't think they will do anything spectacular, but if they get the pvp right, the lore right and the character customization right  then I will be happy.

Just look at WOWs share of the market. To fell that giant is simply NOT on the horizon yet. But I would be happy to be proved wrong lol.