Darkfall

Originally posted by atziluth

I have to laugh at this thread. So many posts and people missed a significant BS paragraph from Tasos.

"Our tools allow us to test features locally, we can run servers on any operating system and we run multiple clients per machine to which anyone in the office can connect to, in order to assist with what's being tested. At the moment we're testing clans and conquest and we're continuing the terrain testing which has been a long process."

So Tasos made some HUGE claims in this journal.

1) The server client can run on any PC/OS.

2) The game has cutting edge AI.

If you cannot see through this BS I am sorry for you. These games server side take dedicated servers often custom tailored for the game with heavy modification on top of a specific pre-determined OS requirements. What Tasos says DF can do no mmo company has been able to do to date. Add to this that a generic server client can support 10K+ players at a time. What Tasos is describing is just not possible. Not for a true MMO.

Now think about the AI. In order to fully test the game, they would need to have thousands of bots running on the server side. As bots become more complicated (and to do what Tasos says they are doing would make them some of the most complicated ever developed) they take up increased CPU cycles.

The average gaming computer might be able to handle 16 of those bots with moderate lag. Now lets scale to say 5000 bots. That would take the computing power of an estimated 313 computers. Sorry, it goes from improbably to bloody impossible. Even if you remove video requirements (not needed) you are talking about something well beyond what people are doing in the AI industry. They would have universities and corporations banging down their door for the technology.

Now package this up in a small indi company and there can only be one logical conclusion. Tasos is lying. Would not be the first time. After all the game has been feature complete since summer of last year and according to Tasos was 100% ready for beta twice between july and sept 2007.

 

Tasos is like John Smedley 300 times over.

Where do you have those numbers from ? You are basing your conclusion on pure guesswork.

Originally posted by Xris375

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

 

/clap

 

Whole point is letting (you) the public play it.  Backing up the argument by providing proof is the best way to do it.

Taking an eternity to get there, and the majority of the excited fan base will have moved on. (Already happening)

 What facts are you baseing that statement on ? Please link. Moved on or not, they (and a bunch of others) will be back to test this game out. Aventurine say they compete with their game, not with their hype.

Well, a large majority of the fan base has actually jumped from Darkfall to Mortal Online. 

"This is DFO, This is the best game in the world"

"We have this feature that fucking kicks ass, and this is how it will be.. etc etc"

"We are the true PvP'ers, we are the best"

You know these types of comments, the ones the dickheads keep saying.  Ever heard of the saying, put your money where your mouth is?

Ever heard, don't put words in other people's mouths ? It's kinda rude. I never heard the devs say anything like that. Please link.

The many times they have stated what this game has.  It is technically saying "we have the best game ever".  And you know it too, for when they say they can do all these things, yet after seven years they still refuse to show anything is rediculous.

People should log onto the Mortal Online forums and see the abusive forumfallers that have made their presence there. Forumfall avatars and all. Its quite silly to be carrying a pretence around with you when there is nothing to back it up, but a few words on a webpage.

We know all about abusive AoC fanbois on these boards, so my sympathies to them.

I'm not sure what you're getting at..  He made a good point becuase all there ar on that site is words and a video. 

Show it to the public, let them play a small part. Guild beta invites was like 30 months or something back, they must of had something then? unless they lied.

There is only so much than can be preached before providing proof. Its way past that point now. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason not to show of the game in public. They have preached an overview of most of the features. Its not like no one knows what might be coming.

There is absoluly no reason to expose your customers to an unfinished product, if you don't have to. The music or movie industy doesn't do it, why exactly should the gaming industy do it ?

First of all, these industries are completely different.  But I have seen movies on TV around a month before release.  But once again, they are different industries and are not alike.  Now for games it is important to get as large as a fan-base as possible before release, as it is always good to have people encouraging others to play.  As for Darkfall, they have now even gone to any conventions to actually show what they have been doing.  Apparently they don't like getting attention from potential subscribers?

In my case it is well intentioned. The reality is a game of this nature being made by 30 people will take 10 yrs. Simple logistics when you really think about it.

I can't wait that long for a video game, Adventurine should stop acting like its 2004, there is some serious competition out there, and its about business at the end of the day.

No one expect you to. As a customer you need to relate to the finished product, nothing else. As customers we need to stop behaving like crybabies just because a developers don't want to give us information that may or may not be relevant to the finished game.

But it is very important to give information... It's not really being fair to the people who have waited seven years to not give any information.

Its not about the game "not working" its about customer relations and not treating your community like a piece of shit. Because lets be honest, 2 videos and 20 screen shots and 2 fan write ups over 7 yrs is just not good enough.

Avery, you know customer relation is for publishers, not developers. The game isn't finished. deal with it. 20 screens ?? And what about the 25 dev journals ?

What?  25 journals in 7 years?  Is that supposed to be a lot.  Around 5 videos, only one showing this supposedly amazing AI.  As for screens, only very few showing NPC's. 

 

I have not seen anyone leave DF community for Mortal. We're more openminded than y'll think. For us it's just another game fullfilling the sandbox theme. We'll just cloned and welcomed another game to the genre.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by atziluth

I have to laugh at this thread. So many posts and people missed a significant BS paragraph from Tasos.

"Our tools allow us to test features locally, we can run servers on any operating system and we run multiple clients per machine to which anyone in the office can connect to, in order to assist with what's being tested. At the moment we're testing clans and conquest and we're continuing the terrain testing which has been a long process."

So Tasos made some HUGE claims in this journal.

1) The server client can run on any PC/OS.

2) The game has cutting edge AI.

If you cannot see through this BS I am sorry for you. These games server side take dedicated servers often custom tailored for the game with heavy modification on top of a specific pre-determined OS requirements. What Tasos says DF can do no mmo company has been able to do to date. Add to this that a generic server client can support 10K+ players at a time. What Tasos is describing is just not possible. Not for a true MMO.

Now think about the AI. In order to fully test the game, they would need to have thousands of bots running on the server side. As bots become more complicated (and to do what Tasos says they are doing would make them some of the most complicated ever developed) they take up increased CPU cycles.

The average gaming computer might be able to handle 16 of those bots with moderate lag. Now lets scale to say 5000 bots. That would take the computing power of an estimated 313 computers. Sorry, it goes from improbably to bloody impossible. Even if you remove video requirements (not needed) you are talking about something well beyond what people are doing in the AI industry. They would have universities and corporations banging down their door for the technology.

Now package this up in a small indi company and there can only be one logical conclusion. Tasos is lying. Would not be the first time. After all the game has been feature complete since summer of last year and according to Tasos was 100% ready for beta twice between july and sept 2007.

 

Tasos is like John Smedley 300 times over.

Can be achieved if server is compiled to Java byte code..at least the running part ..

That is like saying you can fit a lawnmower engine into any car chassis. You would be correct, but the car would barely move.

Originally posted by Xris375

 

Originally posted by atziluth

I have to laugh at this thread. So many posts and people missed a significant BS paragraph from Tasos.

"Our tools allow us to test features locally, we can run servers on any operating system and we run multiple clients per machine to which anyone in the office can connect to, in order to assist with what's being tested. At the moment we're testing clans and conquest and we're continuing the terrain testing which has been a long process."

So Tasos made some HUGE claims in this journal.

1) The server client can run on any PC/OS.

2) The game has cutting edge AI.

If you cannot see through this BS I am sorry for you. These games server side take dedicated servers often custom tailored for the game with heavy modification on top of a specific pre-determined OS requirements. What Tasos says DF can do no mmo company has been able to do to date. Add to this that a generic server client can support 10K+ players at a time. What Tasos is describing is just not possible. Not for a true MMO.

Now think about the AI. In order to fully test the game, they would need to have thousands of bots running on the server side. As bots become more complicated (and to do what Tasos says they are doing would make them some of the most complicated ever developed) they take up increased CPU cycles.

The average gaming computer might be able to handle 16 of those bots with moderate lag. Now lets scale to say 5000 bots. That would take the computing power of an estimated 313 computers. Sorry, it goes from improbably to bloody impossible. Even if you remove video requirements (not needed) you are talking about something well beyond what people are doing in the AI industry. They would have universities and corporations banging down their door for the technology.

Now package this up in a small indi company and there can only be one logical conclusion. Tasos is lying. Would not be the first time. After all the game has been feature complete since summer of last year and according to Tasos was 100% ready for beta twice between july and sept 2007.

 

Tasos is like John Smedley 300 times over.

 

Where do you have those numbers from ? You are basing your conclusion on pure guesswork.

Tasos said they are using Bots to test the game along with in-house testers.

1) It is reasonable to think the human testers are limited to 100 or less because of cost.

2) In order to truly test the game stability you would have to populate the server with at least 1/2 of the total max users they are projecting. That would be 5K. 10K+ divided by 2.

3) The AI Bots are not just activating when a human player gets into "range" like most games. That means the CPU would have to handle AI cycles from 4 - 5K active bots at any given run cycle.

Here is an old, but still relevant and good read on Bot AI. I goes into the math more directly then I did concerning what a game can support. It is geared towards single player PC games so keep in mind that the numbers he lists are for Bots that only activate when a player is in range.

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20000619/wright_pfv.htm

Even if they had cutting technology for AI, what Tasos describes is not currently possible with todays hardware.

Originally posted by Seggallion

I have not seen anyone leave DF community for Mortal. We're more openminded than y'll think. For us it's just another game fullfilling the sandbox theme. We'll just cloned and welcomed another game to the genre.

Very welcoming.

Originally posted by Seggallion

I have not seen anyone leave DF community for Mortal. We're more openminded than y'll think. For us it's just another game fullfilling the sandbox theme. We'll just cloned and welcomed another game to the genre.

It's pretty obvious that some of the fanbase has moved to Mortal Online.  I go over there a bit, I already see Aragon over there :D

im sorry but i cant get behind a game that's devs generalize and damn near flame its players.

thats just pathetic.