Originally posted by erandur

 

Originally posted by Antarious

First off.. just to get this out of the way.

I never played SWG to be a jedi.. never wanted to be a jedi.  So this update IF I was still playing wouldn't affect me.

However, I would like to point out one thing.. and its not unique to SWG or Blix.. but I'm seeing it more and more.

When customers tell a developer.. what you did is NOT fun.

Then the developer responds with a general flame.. about how they are all wrong and just to stupid, uninformed (not playing enough) or whatever other rational.

That person needs to work in another field.  They should quit or be fired on the spot.

Why?

When I tell you something isn't fun in an optional form of entertainment you are trying to sell to me.  I don't care how you explain it to me.. its still not fun.  After its not fun long enough I will no longer pay for it.

So in the end no matter what your idea/theory/rationalization is... if you are in this position as a developer you have lost.  PERIOD.

 

Which pretty much is exactly what my sig is all about.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who do want to be a Jedi, and the point of updates is... Increasing the game content! And I thought that update was free? So what are you whining about... It's free, free things can't be bad, whether you like the content or not.

 

However if it wasn't free, they obviously made a big mistake, it's as simple as that. :)

I am not sure what world you live in... Do you not pay $15 a month to play? What do you think those $15 a month are for? To pay for developers who do what?

Unlike another poster, I play SWG to be a jedi.  Always have and always will.  Jedi make the Star Wars universe unique and with without them it might as well be Cowboys in Space.

SOE is a pile of poodoo that needs to be buried and I think this is the last straw for me.

I intened to take a hard good look at AoC and SGW when they come out. 

Me, I am no lamb that intends to continue to pay money to get shafted.

---

Originally posted by Antarious
First off.. just to get this out of the way.
I never played SWG to be a jedi.. never wanted to be a jedi. So this update IF I was still playing wouldn't affect me.
However, I would like to point out one thing.. and its not unique to SWG or Blix.. but I'm seeing it more and more.
When customers tell a developer.. what you did is NOT fun.
Then the developer responds with a general flame.. about how they are all wrong and just to stupid, uninformed (not playing enough) or whatever other rational.
That person needs to work in another field. They should quit or be fired on the spot.
Why?
When I tell you something isn't fun in an optional form of entertainment you are trying to sell to me. I don't care how you explain it to me.. its still not fun. After its not fun long enough I will no longer pay for it.
So in the end no matter what your idea/theory/rationalization is... if you are in this position as a developer you have lost. PERIOD.

Which pretty much is exactly what my sig is all about.

---

Originally posted by erandur    I'm sure there are plenty of people who do want to be a Jedi, and the point of updates is... Increasing the game content! And I thought that update was free? So what are you whining about... It's free, free things can't be bad, whether you like the content or not.

 

However if it wasn't free, they obviously made a big mistake, it's as simple as that. :)

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the NGE target market.

I mean seriously, of all the things that could be said... I have seen some shocking arguements by certain fanbois as to why SWG and it's designers are 'not that bad'... but this takes the all time cake.

And FYI erandur... it's NOT free. True, it's not an expansion in the traditional game market sense. Those 'free' updates, as they are advertised, keep people playing, and paying. There's a big difference between paying money (not free), and not paying money (free).

---

Originally posted by DingoBoi

---

Originally posted by Antarious

When I tell you something isn't fun in an optional form of entertainment you are trying to sell to me. I don't care how you explain it to me.. its still not fun. After its not fun long enough I will no longer pay for it.

---

The power of the force is weak in blix. Jedi mind tricks work not on rational players.

---

Devs put up "feedback" threads because they're required to, however they don't care about feedback we give them, they only care about the bugs of existing changes they're interested in, not the protest, ideas and suggestions we give them.

when i saw this i was like wtf?

this is worse then the nge and when will the dev's get it. people want alpha jedi and yes the game should be about getting alpha jedi and about pvp. that is what sold the game back in the day and what could sell it now if they rolled back to pre-cu. but no they just sit there and work on more and more crap that no one wants outside the 3 people who play nge along with the credit farmers.

people should be on $OE forums screaming we want pre-cu. people should go to the fan fairs and screwam we want pre-cu. i have had it with this.

i say it is time for us to step up showing people how much the game sucks. i will be hitting other forums to talk about how lame the changes are and to show the world that $OE needs to be shut down. all $OE do is lie and steal. it's time for all of this to end and for us the true player base of swg to regain our game.

Another good thread.  Blixtev caught in a lie, and he poorly evades the question:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=640859&#6991039

Blixtev wrote:

Time goes by Mudflation kicks in.  This is constant for all MMO's.  Old "the best" items become replaced by new "the best" items.  Wonderful part about SWG is you can always display them in your house.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudflation

 

-----------------

"Toilet Boy" caught in a lie, and evading the questions.  Anyone who keeps falling back on the argument that "the old Devs who made the NGE are almost all gone, they were liars, the new devs are doing it right" has now been shot down.

The new devs lie, obfuscate, nerf, and don't listen to what the player want, just like the previous ones.

The only difference between Heliass's team and Toilet Boy's is that Toilet Boy is and commands EVEN LESS competence, experience, and ability.

He's just as good at lying though.

Folks, the wheels are coming off.  And I suspected this might happen when the "jedi update" didn't do anything to over HALF their "expertise" and STARTED OFF with a major nerf (healing becoming more expensive to buy).

Add to that you are LOCKED into lightside or darkside (can't dabble without severe penalty), and now have even LESS choice of appearance (light and dark robes now suck if you aren't wearing the right one for your template)  this isn't much of an update at all.

And, the cake topper:  an ability added to lightside that SHOULD be a proc or chance to fire, simply to give them "one more button to mash".

For those who think that Jedi will be overpowered from this update.  Don't worry.  Blixtev will never allow anything like THAT to happen.  By the end of the CU, he had an alpha class reduced to being WORSE than templates you could grind in days.  Soon as this thing releases, if anything is found that is good out of it, they will shut the servers down in prime time to publish a nerf patch.

At any rate, Team Toilet Boy continues to do MY bidding, by doing a better job at bringing a swifter end to the NGE than I could do on purpose, if I were in his job.  And the beauty of it is that the fanbois, not me, are paying him to do it.

Life is good :)

Here is what could happen at this point:

1. Pull the Jedi portion of the update out of the publish and promise to revisit it later when they have time to address BOTH expertise trees as they did with all other professions, and make changes to address the huge disagreement in their community, in the best interests of the game.  This of course being the sensible course is the one they WONT do.  Blixtev isn't competent enough to do this, and his team is too inexperienced to suggest it.  Valara is no Tiggs, I don't see her standing up for the players.

2. Shove it down  everyone's throats  with vague  promises to  "revisit  it later".  Which will never happen at this point, this update goes live, and  the life expectancy of the NGE, already down to well less than a year, drops by half.

Toilet boy being who he is, he'll go #2.

I've run into boxes of broken hammers that were both smarter and more useful than Blixtev.

But then again, I spent hours catching the poodoo for brains idiots that are the SWG dev team in logical fallacies, poorly argued platitudes, and outright lies from launch onward.

These guys WONDER why their sub numbers keep falling, and keep flailing around with the same old "you'll play this game our way or get lost" attitude, and then the players get lost, and they wonder why the servers are ghost towns.

I mean, really.  No sense of cause and effect at all with this bunch of Niemoidian assclowns.

Originally posted by SioBabble

I've run into boxes of broken hammers that were both smarter and more useful than Blixtev.

But then again, I spent hours catching the poodoo for brains idiots that are the SWG dev team in logical fallacies, poorly argued platitudes, and outright lies from launch onward.

These guys WONDER why their sub numbers keep falling, and keep flailing around with the same old "you'll play this game our way or get lost" attitude, and then the players get lost, and they wonder why the servers are ghost towns.

I mean, really.  No sense of cause and effect at all with this bunch of Niemoidian assclowns.

Truly an epic Fail.  These guys are so stupid that not even the "school of hard knocks" can teach them that lesson, not even after a graduate level course in it (losing 90-95% of the player base).

Originally posted by SioBabble

I've run into boxes of broken hammers that were both smarter and more useful than Blixtev.

But then again, I spent hours catching the poodoo for brains idiots that are the SWG dev team in logical fallacies, poorly argued platitudes, and outright lies from launch onward.

These guys WONDER why their sub numbers keep falling, and keep flailing around with the same old "you'll play this game our way or get lost" attitude, and then the players get lost, and they wonder why the servers are ghost towns.

I mean, really.  No sense of cause and effect at all with this bunch of Niemoidian assclowns.

also more and more people are pulling this kind of crap in the gaming world. i like many of you am sick of it. blizzard forcing warcraft and it's fisherprice game play on us. old great titles being turned into plotless actionfests. microsoft forcing xbox live onto the world and telling us we want it. it's thanks to people like those at $OE that gaming is going downhill.

i also blame you fanbois and fanbots for it. here we are fighting to give gamers freedom and make the devs see that they need us more then we need them and you morons sit there like zombies and pay for this crap. if you pay for swg if you own a xbox if you are not fighting the good fight then you are no gamer. you are a fanboi moron who should have his pc taken away and be banned from playing anything.

i have had it with all of the fanbois devs and fanbots. i want swg to be shutdown or rollbacked to when it was good. quit telling $OE that you like this crap and start saying bring back pre-cu or get out of gaming for good.

Originally posted by iwantmyswg

 

Originally posted by SioBabble

I've run into boxes of broken hammers that were both smarter and more useful than Blixtev.

But then again, I spent hours catching the poodoo for brains idiots that are the SWG dev team in logical fallacies, poorly argued platitudes, and outright lies from launch onward.

These guys WONDER why their sub numbers keep falling, and keep flailing around with the same old "you'll play this game our way or get lost" attitude, and then the players get lost, and they wonder why the servers are ghost towns.

I mean, really.  No sense of cause and effect at all with this bunch of Niemoidian assclowns.

it's people like blixtev that bring more and more people onto our side people who see that the best way that swg can go is to a rollback of the pre-cu or to be shutdown and do an swg 2 with a pre-cu system in place.

 

also more and more people are pulling this kind of crap in the gaming world. i like many of you am sick of it. blizzard forcing warcraft and it's fisherprice game play on us. old great titles being turned into plotless actionfests. microsoft forcing xbox live onto the world and telling us we want it. it's thanks to people like those at $OE that gaming is going downhill.

i also blame you fanbois and fanbots for it. here we are fighting to give gamers freedom and make the devs see that they need us more then we need them and you morons sit there like zombies and pay for this crap. if you pay for swg if you own a xbox if you are not fighting the good fight then you are no gamer. you are a fanboi moron who should have his pc taken away and be banned from playing anything.

i have had it with all of the fanbois devs and fanbots. i want swg to be shutdown or rollbacked to when it was good. quit telling $OE that you like this crap and start saying bring back pre-cu or get out of gaming for good.

It seems that a rigid computer or nothing gamer who can't enjoy other aspects of gaming is not really a real gamer,  it's someone who can't evolve or learn new things perhaps.

Originally posted by iwantmyswg

 

it's people like blixtev that bring more and more people onto our side people who see that the best way that swg can go is to a rollback of the pre-cu or to be shutdown and do an swg 2 with a pre-cu system in place.

 

also more and more people are pulling this kind of crap in the gaming world. i like many of you am sick of it. blizzard forcing warcraft and it's fisherprice game play on us. old great titles being turned into plotless actionfests. microsoft forcing xbox live onto the world and telling us we want it. it's thanks to people like those at $OE that gaming is going downhill.

i also blame you fanbois and fanbots for it. here we are fighting to give gamers freedom and make the devs see that they need us more then we need them and you morons sit there like zombies and pay for this crap. if you pay for swg if you own a xbox if you are not fighting the good fight then you are no gamer. you are a fanboi moron who should have his pc taken away and be banned from playing anything.

i have had it with all of the fanbois devs and fanbots. i want swg to be shutdown or rollbacked to when it was good. quit telling $OE that you like this crap and start saying bring back pre-cu or get out of gaming for good.

We live now in the world of the casual gamer its time we hardned old timers have to get used to this fact the days of gaming being a "geek" pastime are truely over with grandma and grandpa playing the Wii for fun,truth is you either accept that fact or it you who'll have to move on,becuase devs will go where the money is (and i'm talking across the board gaming here) and care not a jot about thier past customers.

I wonder if these were the same internal testers that gave the humbs up to the NGE?  I'm being a little sarcastic.  It was the mythical "focus group" that did us in.

Um, the devs did NOT go where the money was!

Originally posted by fozzie22

 

Originally posted by iwantmyswg

 

it's people like blixtev that bring more and more people onto our side people who see that the best way that swg can go is to a rollback of the pre-cu or to be shutdown and do an swg 2 with a pre-cu system in place.

 

also more and more people are pulling this kind of crap in the gaming world. i like many of you am sick of it. blizzard forcing warcraft and it's fisherprice game play on us. old great titles being turned into plotless actionfests. microsoft forcing xbox live onto the world and telling us we want it. it's thanks to people like those at $OE that gaming is going downhill.

i also blame you fanbois and fanbots for it. here we are fighting to give gamers freedom and make the devs see that they need us more then we need them and you morons sit there like zombies and pay for this crap. if you pay for swg if you own a xbox if you are not fighting the good fight then you are no gamer. you are a fanboi moron who should have his pc taken away and be banned from playing anything.

i have had it with all of the fanbois devs and fanbots. i want swg to be shutdown or rollbacked to when it was good. quit telling $OE that you like this crap and start saying bring back pre-cu or get out of gaming for good.

Wow what an angry post...

 

 

We live now in the world of the casual gamer its time we hardned old timers have to get used to this fact the days of gaming being a "geek" pastime are truely over with grandma and grandpa playing the Wii for fun,truth is you either accept that fact or it you who'll have to move on,becuase devs will go where the money is (and i'm talking across the board gaming here) and care not a jot about thier past customers.

Given that MMOs take years and tens of millions of dollars to develop, catering to flighty "casual" fans isn't a great plan to recoup that investment, is it?

I certainly wouldn't want businesses like THAT in my 401K.

Time to live in the now..ALL games cost a fortune to devolp nowadays,the times of bedroom coding are gone,so publishers want to see some return for thier investment,and usualy (not always) the simpler the game is the more copies it sells.

More and more we're seeing cross platform games exclusives are becoming rarer and rarer for this very reason and given the worlds current climate regarding money matters i can see its only going to get worse.

Who (talking about consoles here but its relevant) would have put money on the Wii being such a massive success? i know i wouldnt thats for sure,that console (alongside the DS) has opened a whole new market for publishers to have a go at,now sooner or later that market will move on from consoles and look to the pc for thier gaming and may be interested in an MMO and the dev and publishers know this,they can see it coming and the money it'll bring them if they have a product like WOW thats as easy as pie and more importantly works as well as that game.

So when you look at it it IS the best way to recoup thier investment (granted any game can go tits up but thats by the by)

Originally posted by fozzie22

Time to live in the now..ALL games cost a fortune to devolp nowadays,the times of bedroom coding are gone,so publishers want to see some return for thier investment,and usualy (not always) the simpler the game is the more copies it sells.

 

More and more we're seeing cross platform games exclusives are becoming rarer and rarer for this very reason and given the worlds current climate regarding money matters i can see its only going to get worse.

 

Who (talking about consoles here but its relevant) would have put money on the Wii being such a massive success? i know i wouldnt thats for sure,that console (alongside the DS) has opened a whole new market for publishers to have a go at,now sooner or later that market will move on from consoles and look to the pc for thier gaming and may be interested in an MMO and the dev and publishers know this,they can see it coming and the money it'll bring them if they have a product like WOW thats as easy as pie and more importantly works as well as that game.

 

So when you look at it it IS the best way to recoup thier investment (granted any game can go tits up but thats by the by)

As someone that has been gaming for well a long damn time let me say this much, yes Games are getting dumbed down. Look at games like Rainbow 6 or Command and Conquer! Rainbow 6:Vegas plays much more like an action movie or something like 24 or The Unit. Granted it's not like it was back in the 90's with the first Rainbow 6 or Rouge Spear, but ya know what? It's fun! Same go's with C&C, the new C&C titles are much faster and more about rushing, where the older C&C Games played a bit slower.

Things get dumbed down, why? So more people can play it and enjoy it. Granted gone are the days of games like X-Com or Master of Orion. Those games are still around, just well more "Nitche" now then anything...

That is not a bad thing really, now you will have a Developer that does aim to please those older fans and maybe make a few new ones as well. Still get used to more games coming out on systems like the Xbox. Get used to more titles being made with "everybody" in mind rather then a few "hardcore" people! And get used to the fact that as much as many of you hate to look at it, Gaming as a whole has changed. The old days are gone, over and done with.

See and this is something I have learned in my life, you cannot live in the past. And Gaming must move forward! Yes some games can and will go after the hardcore people, however other's are going to try and be open for anyone and everyone.

In the case of SWG, or really any MMO. Your going to get things that you won't like and your going to get things forced on you. Believe me EA did alot of that with UO, I've heard people say that with games like WoW. It's nothing new in gaming or with MMO's really...

I am so happy to be free of this epicenter.

Originally posted by fozzie22

 

Originally posted by iwantmyswg

 

it's people like blixtev that bring more and more people onto our side people who see that the best way that swg can go is to a rollback of the pre-cu or to be shutdown and do an swg 2 with a pre-cu system in place.

 

also more and more people are pulling this kind of crap in the gaming world. i like many of you am sick of it. blizzard forcing warcraft and it's fisherprice game play on us. old great titles being turned into plotless actionfests. microsoft forcing xbox live onto the world and telling us we want it. it's thanks to people like those at $OE that gaming is going downhill.

i also blame you fanbois and fanbots for it. here we are fighting to give gamers freedom and make the devs see that they need us more then we need them and you morons sit there like zombies and pay for this crap. if you pay for swg if you own a xbox if you are not fighting the good fight then you are no gamer. you are a fanboi moron who should have his pc taken away and be banned from playing anything.

i have had it with all of the fanbois devs and fanbots. i want swg to be shutdown or rollbacked to when it was good. quit telling $OE that you like this crap and start saying bring back pre-cu or get out of gaming for good.

Wow what an angry post...

 

 

We live now in the world of the casual gamer its time we hardned old timers have to get used to this fact the days of gaming being a "geek" pastime are truely over with grandma and grandpa playing the Wii for fun,truth is you either accept that fact or it you who'll have to move on,becuase devs will go where the money is (and i'm talking across the board gaming here) and care not a jot about thier past customers.

 You did know that swg was likely the most casual friendly mmo on the market before the changes, no levels, and player skill trianing made it easy to jump in and just join people in whatever they were doing, try that now.. Most mmos now require that you grind levels and gear before joining the big boys in much of anything this also now includes SWG, any grouping with low/high levels means the low level is just along for the ride as the high levels rush him/her through quests/missions.

 The hardest part of the old swg was crafting and that wasn't to hard to overcome if you did something that seems to be getting pushed out.. that would be reading and socializing... of course a decent in game crafting tutorial could have overcome even that tough spot.

 Unless of course what you mean by casual is the ability to solo to level cap without even so much as saying high to anyone else in which case I wonder why those people would pay a fee to play alone ::shrugs::.

The thrill is gone so to speak with today's MMOs.

I am going to sit back and hope that something comes along that brings back the feeling of satisfaction.

The sad thing is the future will be ever more compact.  This was the first year where Notebooks are expected to exceed Desktop PCs in sales.

The trend will continue and so does the way MMOs are being developed.

They will constantly be dumbed down in order to meet the expectations of the "ON The Go" Players.

In 5 years it is expected that mobile entertainment will surpass everything the Desktop PC had to offer.

Desktops will still be around but the online virtual worlds will be ruled by that little tiny device known as mobile technologies.

So enjoy the moment fellow gamers for we will be ruled again by consoles because thats the way the world wants it.

It might seem like a fricken pipe dream to believe otherwise but face it the "FAD" is going away like Disco in the '70's.