General Discussion

Oh well...A nice rule to have is that most games suck nowadays and is hardly worth the effort to even read about them in some random game site/magazine. So with that thought, save your money for the good stuff. Go rampant on the budget market. Lots of gems there. I find myself reinstalling the old classics, both mmo and regular singleplayer games.

And as a last note, I would love to be the fly on the wall when life comes knocking and makes some of the posters life suck, economically atleast. Life have a tendency to do that and I suspect some of the posters havent seen that part of life yet. Maybe then they will change their view on money. $50 may be pocket change for some people but to others its the difference between having a meal that day or not. A little off-topic but really...some got the most screwed up view on money out there, when they are busy living the american dream, with 2.4 kids, 1.8 cars in the garage and a nice 6 figure income.

Originally posted by Housam

Originally posted by Suvroc

 

Originally posted by Housam

Originally posted by Suvroc

Maybe that is one of the problems this genre is facing - too many people willing to pay money for something in a hope that they'll like it.

Would it be so bad to offer an alternative to paying $60 for a game client? How about a free game client download with a slight increase in the monthly sub to balance it out?

90% of mmo have some form of trial to see if you like it or not....

 

I't's been my experience that most new games do not offer a trial, and as my preference is to join a game from the begining so I can help to develop the community from very early on it essentially leaves no options but to keep paying for a game that fulfills what I'm looking for.

But again, what is wrong with the idea of a free cleint download with a slight increase to the monthly fee (and with this idea there would be no "free first month")? The current standard can leave us being taken advantage of by developers, so as a consumer I think this helps to ensure minimal lose while the developers still get something.

Is that not a fair solution?

if you wanna be there from the start..youve gotta be willing to pay and take risks of it being a crappy game :)

Well, that's exactly what I meant when I said I currently have no options. I think my solution, which you keep ignoring, is beneficial to both us as consumers and the developers.

Why is minimizing the risk a bad thing?

It never fails to amaze me that some people have the idea that companies should only charge enough to cover their cost.  They appear to think that making a profit is somehow wrong.  Game companies are not "non-profit" organizations.  They exist to make profit.  They do not exist to provide you with un-ending low cost or free entertainment.

I can see some CEO saying at the company meeting, "We'll be cutting salaries for everyone.  You'll have to go from 70k to 35k per year because little Johnny wants to only pay $20 for the box and does not want a monthly fee.  Remember, we are here to make little Johnny happy"

Companies charge as much as they think customers will be willing to pay.  It's that simple.  If Guild Wars thought they could make more money charging $15/mo, then they would.  Some bean counter there thought they'd make their best profit under their current fee structure.  They are not being altruistic.

Some people like to engage in gambling as their entertainment.  Others can't afford it and look elsewhere for entertainment.  Some people cannot afford P2P online games.  They should look elsewhere for their entertainment.  If $60 for a box and $15/mo is too expensive for you, why aren't you working on getting to a better position in life?

I guess it's like those who decide to make a bunch of babies at an early age and then complain about the crappy life they have because they can't go to college and they can't find a better job.  The problem is not the cost of the games, it's simply that some are not yet ready to afford them. 

The MMO market has been growing and good games are profitable.  So the problem is not the game cost.  The problem is that a few folks want to engage in entertainment they cannot afford.  When game companies outprice themselves, the games won't sell.  The market won't grow.

Finally, most games will have trials.  Stop worrying about being there the day the game opens and wait for the trial.  Try the open betas.  Wait for the reviews.  The reviews are most helpful for those who cannot afford to take risk.  Most bad games are well known in advance of their opening.  But "fans" like to be stupid and support bad games simply because they cannot admit that they've spent a year or two promoting something they've never played based simply on a dream some developer put out.

Originally posted by Kyleran

 

 

No, most MMO packages come with a month's play time for your 59.95 fee. 

And that fee normally only lasts the first week or month, then drops to 49.95 or lower pretty quickly.

So you are basically paying 35.00 for the client at that point.  Certainly nothing to throw away, but as mentioned by others, you will have options to determine whether or not you like the game in advance.

And keep in mind, just because "YOU" don't like a game, doesn't mean it sucks, just means you don't like it.  They have a right to make you pay for trying it, even if it turns out you don't wish to continue playing.

Too many folks wrapped up in this "free" world. 

 

 

QFT.

Well said.

Originally posted by arlo_infidel

I didn't read anything else but the main post and I have to say you have the right idea. I haven't purchased a MMO Cd in a long time and I have no interest in it either to say the least.

It is kind of ridiculous that sometimes you need to pay $50 for a damn install cd then $14.99 right afterwards to figure out it's alright for a month of game time.

This is exactly what I don't understand.  Do you buy other games (non-MMO)?  How long do they typically last you... 1 month... 2 months?

Average game costs $50 or $60 and lasts you 1 or 2 months.  Average MMO game client costs $50 and lasts you 1 month or pay $65 and get two months. IT'S THE SAME COST!!!  Why should the MMO be cheaper since it took longer and cost more to develop?

This is not an issue if $50 is a lot of money, it's why do you think 1 month of MMO play should be free (or $15 if you are actually willing to pay the monthly fee) while any other game should cost $50 or $60?

Assuming a game company has good lawyers, you're never paying for a game client.  You're actually paying for a fee for an activation key -- the software is merely the interface to access the service. 

As for "15.00 is the standard", well, it's up to you to decide if it's worthwhile to pay it but there's no way you can dictate how much a company should charge.  The reality is that a business is out to make money and making games is a good market.

Originally posted by Suvroc

 

 

Well, that's exactly what I meant when I said I currently have no options. I think my solution, which you keep ignoring, is beneficial to both us as consumers and the developers.

Why is minimizing the risk a bad thing?

The thing is, you DO have options, you are choosing to not use them.

You have the option to pay.

You have the option to not pay, and not play as result.

You have the option to play an existing free-to-play mmo or game.

You have the option to play a single player game.

You CHOSE instead, to not make use of any option here, and would rather make a post where you complain about monthly fees and client costs.

Thats your perogative my man, but don't fall back on a cop out response like saying how you don't have any options, because clearly you do and just choose to not make use of them, because of your preference to not pay and/or risk finding out you might not like something.

Originally posted by SunDried

It never fails to amaze me that some people have the idea that companies should only charge enough to cover their cost.  They appear to think that making a profit is somehow wrong.  Game companies are not "non-profit" organizations.  They exist to make profit.  They do not exist to provide you with un-ending low cost or free entertainment.

I can see some CEO saying at the company meeting, "We'll be cutting salaries for everyone.  You'll have to go from 70k to 35k per year because little Johnny wants to only pay $20 for the box and does not want a monthly fee.  Remember, we are here to make little Johnny happy"

Companies charge as much as they think customers will be willing to pay.  It's that simple.  If Guild Wars thought they could make more money charging $15/mo, then they would.  Some bean counter there thought they'd make their best profit under their current fee structure.  They are not being altruistic.

Some people like to engage in gambling as their entertainment.  Others can't afford it and look elsewhere for entertainment.  Some people cannot afford P2P online games.  They should look elsewhere for their entertainment.  If $60 for a box and $15/mo is too expensive for you, why aren't you working on getting to a better position in life?

I guess it's like those who decide to make a bunch of babies at an early age and then complain about the crappy life they have because they can't go to college and they can't find a better job.  The problem is not the cost of the games, it's simply that some are not yet ready to afford them. 

The MMO market has been growing and good games are profitable.  So the problem is not the game cost.  The problem is that a few folks want to engage in entertainment they cannot afford.  When game companies outprice themselves, the games won't sell.  The market won't grow.

Finally, most games will have trials.  Stop worrying about being there the day the game opens and wait for the trial.  Try the open betas.  Wait for the reviews.  The reviews are most helpful for those who cannot afford to take risk.  Most bad games are well known in advance of their opening.  But "fans" like to be stupid and support bad games simply because they cannot admit that they've spent a year or two promoting something they've never played based simply on a dream some developer put out.

But with so many MMO's on the market there should be some kind of competetive pricing right? I have no problem with companies making profit but there comes a point when value should become more important to the consumer. At least SoE kind of offers that in their Station pass, but that is quantity rather then quality IMO.

Some people seem to be looking at it from the perspective of if you can't afford it then don't play it, but I'd rather look at it in terms of getting the most value out of the product I buy.