I am looking at vanguard. I actually upgraded my comp to play it before it released, but the negative feedback scared me off. I hear constantly that the game has improved dramatically. I am sort of toying with the idea of buying it now(I can't play anymore wow....whole other topic)

   My question. I am told the sub numbers for the game are poor. I know the mmo community is not prone to giving comapnies a second chance on a game that launched badly (very very very badly in this case). That said, the numbers will most likely not see a sudden upturn. Is it worth it to start now?. Is the game destined to be shut down in a year? 2? Are there groups to be had or would I be roaming around in empty zones wishing there were actually people to interact with?

I played from the end of November until the end of February.

The population on Seradon was healthy and I enjoyed my time there. I had other commitments otherwise I'd probably still be playing.

I played in the closed beta of Vanguard and was let down like so many others, I was pleasantly surprised upon my return though and will probably go back to play again.

But this isn't an unbiased opinion, because it's coming from someone who quite enjoyed the game... :p

Aside from my own personal hatred towards Vanguard, I would say that you should try it out. I wouldn't worry about huge subscriber numbers since that doesn't really reflect upon how good or bad an MMO is. From what I've been reading, most current players state that the servers tend to be full. Yes, while there aren't a lot of subscribers, there also aren't very many servers so most players are clustered together.

I personally think that Vanguard will survive and won't go anywhere. It has enough of a fan base to keep it going. One may not agree with its development direction, but that is for another thread. In all honesty, if I had to choose out of all the fantasy-based MMOs on the market today, I'd choose Vanguard...and this is based on my own personal experience of playing to level 50 and playing other MMOs like WoW/EQ 1&2 and LotRO.

No other fantasy MMO has the size and landmass that Vanguard offers. If you are an explorer, you'll spend endless hours just roaming around the world. This means that you aren't stuck in a linear mode. For much of your leveling, you will be able to go to any of the three continents and find content. Get bored of one area, you can go to another. After level 20 (From what I can remember) one continent becomes unavailable (due to its low level nature) and all subsequent leveling takes place on the two main continents.

Out of all the level based fantasy MMOs, Vanguard does offer the player the most freedom. You can sail. Ride. Walk. Fly. Port. Housing is not instanced. Many of the dungeons aren't instanced. And, again, the most appealing aspect of Vanguard is simply how big it is.

If you've got the machine for it, I'd say definitely try it out. I left the game because of what went down during the initial launch of the game but sometimes I am tempted to come back. If WAR and AoC end up being duds, I will most likely come back to Vanguard just to get my fantasy fix.

I've been playing it since Jan of this year and really enjoying myself. I am an ex-wow/eq2 (liked both) and think the game is worth my money for now. I would recommend Seradon for the server but I'm biased since I'm on it . Seriously, seems the game has had a fair amount of fixes and if you have the rig for it (it's a pig) the graphics are stunning and the quests are fun. Can't speak to end game yet because only 36 right now, but I look forward to that also.

My thoughts were to give it a shot until AoC comes out and see how that game is also.Just like you I was  more than a little worried with all the deserved bad press.  Worst case I stay with Vanguard since I'm liking it or give AoC a shot to see what all the hype is about. Oh, if you like crafting it really does have some good stuff there.

Best of luck no matter what you choose.

Pooks

Originally posted by severity3

I am looking at vanguard. I actually upgraded my comp to play it before it released, but the negative feedback scared me off. I hear constantly that the game has improved dramatically. I am sort of toying with the idea of buying it now(I can't play anymore wow....whole other topic)

 

   My question. I am told the sub numbers for the game are poor. I know the mmo community is not prone to giving comapnies a second chance on a game that launched badly (very very very badly in this case). That said, the numbers will most likely not see a sudden upturn. Is it worth it to start now?. Is the game destined to be shut down in a year? 2? Are there groups to be had or would I be roaming around in empty zones wishing there were actually people to interact with?

Why not check out the official forums & see what people playing it now think.

http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/forums/list.m

I tried to play it at launch but gave up because it seemed to hate my machine. Even though I Iong since uninstalled it, I regularly check the forums to see if the hardware issues have been fixed. Unfortunately, it doesn't look as if the issues affecting me have been resolved & I can't face the disappointment again.

A lot of negative stuff has been said about the game but it would nice to be able to form my own opinions, especially since I was foolish enough to preorder the collectors edition.

I appreciate the replies. Any chance at a buddy key? If any are still around. I would really not mind checking it out.

    My "gut" tells me I am expecting way too much from aoc and vanguard has everything I am looking for in an mmo(i think). Still though, I'd wish there was a trial.

Originally posted by severity3

I appreciate the replies. Any chance at a buddy key? If any are still around. I would really not mind checking it out.

    My "gut" tells me I am expecting way too much from aoc and vanguard has everything I am looking for in an mmo(i think). Still though, I'd wish there was a trial.

 

AoC, while I'm sure it's going to develope into a decent game, is going to EAT PC's alive. I also don't think its going to have the real diversity of gameplay many MMOers are going to expect.

I was an early beta tester of VG also and it was a pile of crap up to the point Sigil folded. SOE has actually done a good job at reviving it. I resubbed and I am not disappointed. It still has some rough edges depending on your PC.

What I would suggest is the same thing I told the guy in the last thread. Since there is no trial go over to ebay and pick up a copy for about 10 bucks. Its well worth that price.

One of the things I really like about Vanguard is the Class selection. They've gone beyond the simple Fighter, Priest, Mage, Scout type classes. You have Disciple, which is a mix of Priest/FIghter. Blood Mage, is Priest/Mage. Even Druid is more of  a DPS than healer.

They have a couple of new races Giants, and...Fox people can't remember the name. The Fox people actually looked like Foxes in Beta, and the wolf people looked more like a Boxer (the dog breed). Late in Beta they thinned out the wolf people's face and changed the fox people to look..well they look goofy.

    I played at launch for a month. Im not sure how much theyve fixed/added, but that wasn't an issue for me. My machine ran it fine on max settings so performance wasn't an issue for me. The number 1 thing i could not stand was the crappy player animations. I mean when a bard plays a song i expect to see something musical(notes, an instrument,dancing,etc.) all i got was a gold shield that appeared over my head.In games where you spend 90% of the game time fighting and staring at your character, i couldnt ever get the feeling of attachment to my character.

    If bad animations doesn't concern you then give it a shot. But for me it made the game un-enjoyable.

Good luck with Vanguard if you end up playing it.

You asked for an "unbiased" opinion...and there were so many "biased" opinions here...just sad....

If you would like, check out my blog, and you can get an idea of how my "unbiased" gaming session went..

Simple - n - Complex

Basically I took a challenge to try the game from a "someone who never tried" or does not play much in the way of MMO's. Also, as a never played a "hardcore" game.

I had never played EQ1 which a lot of people say the game is like. I have never "raided" (at least in the sense of every night...but have been in raids...), but have played a ton of "MMO's" (GW, Lineage 2, EQ2, LOTRO, WoW, DDO,  a ton of asian grinders....)

So, I am not sure how much more "unbiased" you can get...except from someone who has NEVER played an MMO, and chose Vanguard as their first game..

If that person existed...I think he is in a ditch somewhere with his wrists slashed though...

Good luck

Originally posted by XImpalerX

    I played at launch for a month. Im not sure how much theyve fixed/added, but that wasn't an issue for me. My machine ran it fine on max settings so performance wasn't an issue for me. The number 1 thing i could not stand was the crappy player animations. I mean when a bard plays a song i expect to see something musical(notes, an instrument,dancing,etc.) all i got was a gold shield that appeared over my head.In games where you spend 90% of the game time fighting and staring at your character, i couldnt ever get the feeling of attachment to my character.

    If bad animations doesn't concern you then give it a shot. But for me it made the game un-enjoyable.

Good luck with Vanguard if you end up playing it.

As far as the bard not playing an instrument, you need to equip one. Not using an instrument has a drastic effect on you songs that you make. You couldn't have explored the class at all if you didn't even know there were instruments. There are Lutes, Drums, Flutes and something else...

I don't suppose you knew that you compse your own songs also??? (this link is very dated but you get the idea)

www.vgbards.com/joomla/index.php

Originally posted by Torak

 

Originally posted by XImpalerX

    I played at launch for a month. Im not sure how much theyve fixed/added, but that wasn't an issue for me. My machine ran it fine on max settings so performance wasn't an issue for me. The number 1 thing i could not stand was the crappy player animations. I mean when a bard plays a song i expect to see something musical(notes, an instrument,dancing,etc.) all i got was a gold shield that appeared over my head.In games where you spend 90% of the game time fighting and staring at your character, i couldnt ever get the feeling of attachment to my character.

    If bad animations doesn't concern you then give it a shot. But for me it made the game un-enjoyable.

Good luck with Vanguard if you end up playing it.

Now I don't know about some of the animations, they are choppy but let me say this...I was also a very early LotR beta tester and have one of their lifetime memberships...and their animations are about on par with this game bro.

 

As far as the bard not playing an instrument, you need to equip one. Not using an instrument has a drastic effect on you songs that you make. You couldn't have explored the class at all if you didn't even know there were instruments. There are Lutes, Drums, Flutes and something else...

 

I don't suppose you knew that you compse your own songs also??? (this link is very dated but you get the idea)

www.vgbards.com/joomla/index.php

 

 

         
    thats all fine and dandy..give me a screenshot of the bard in the middle of playing a song..lets see what

looks like. im not hear to bash the game, im sure it has its great qualities that people will never see due to

poor launch/bad press/developers so ill leave it at that.(unless i see that Gold shield above the bards head

when he/she is playing..I will have to lol.)

Originally posted by XImpalerX

         
    thats all fine and dandy..give me a screenshot of the bard in the middle of playing a song..lets see what

looks like. im not hear to bash the game, im sure it has its great qualities that people will never see due to

poor launch/bad press/developers so ill leave it at that.(unless i see that Gold shield above the bards head

when he/she is playing..I will have to lol.)

  So what you are basically saying is, dispite the fact there is a picture of a Bard avatar playing an instrument (something you said they didn't do) you don't believe that its really playing for effect???? whatever. I think its time to move along. Next time you try a game mate, make sure you figure out the class before you go telling others what it does and doesn't do. You obviously either never played VG or never really played a Bard and if you did.....well.....you robbed yourself because you didn't even know they played instruments. (by the way, that little golden shield is NOT the only little symbol in the game, it is a single buff component not an entire song There are many songs and many little symbols...in my SS the hands are glowing red...just like in other games, there are different glowing symbols)

Unlike many other games, VG doesn't "automatically" make an instrument appear out of nowhere when you "cast" your buff. You start with a few VOICE elements then later you start getting elements that require an instrument. You can still use them when you compose a song but they will not help all that much. If you didn't know you had to "make" your own songs and just cast that starter one hum...thats what makes the song's unique, you can make them how you want. The higher level you get the more slots you get to mix and match components.

Song Component Breakdown By Instrument Type

Percussion :  The percussion instrument series has 3 types of song components: Run Speed Components, Cold and Fire Resist Buff Components, and Physical, Cold and Fire Based DoT Components. 

How Instruments Work:

Instruments are the defining factor of a bard.  Without an instrument, many of our song components are simply too weak to bother with using when compared to their cost.  When adding the appropriate instrument mod however, the component begins to blossom into a very powerful song.  The majority of our song components are actually balanced using a 3.0 instrument mod effect (more on this shortly).  As such, anytime you are not using an instrument, you can not expect the song component to be nearly as strong as it would be if you had the mod.  By using an instrument and the right combination of components, your songs will be stronger than any classes buffs combined with only a few exceptions. 

Most instruments are two-handed items and require that you remove weapons in order to use them.  This means that you will not be capable of engaging in melee combat.  However, when using a two-handed instrument you are still able to use your ranged attack.  Yes, it doesn't seem physically possible to play a guitar and shoot a crossbow at the same time, but that's how it works in Vanguard.  Through the usage of macros, specifically the /remove and /wear macros, you can quickly and easily switch between instruments and weapons as needed in order to optimize your effects.  Keep in mind, the instant you remove your instrument, the song will revert to a lesser version.  Likewise, when adding an instrument, the effect is also instant in all but a few circumstances.  One exception to the 2H rule is Voice Mods.  Voice Mods are the primary mod on which the majority of our combat song components are based upon and, since they are all on armor, it allows you to engage in melee combat while increasing your melee based song.

With an upcoming patch we will see the introduction of one-handed instruments.  I have personally tested the effects of 1H String and I am very excited at the potential of these new instruments.  This section will later be revised to reflect those changes. 

Instrument Mod Explanation



The above is an example of a typical two-handed instrument.  Every instrument will have a line describing the type of instrument as well as the amount of the instrument modifier.  In the above example the Drum is a 2.36 Percussion Mod.  Most song components are affected by an instrument and are labeled as such in the tool tip for the component.  When a component says that it is percussion based, whatever effect the component gives will be multiplied by the affect of the instrument mod.  In example, Tynen's Melody of Acceleration delivers a whopping 29% bonus to your run speed.  By equipping the drum above, the same component will now yield 29% x 2.36 = 68.44% Run Speed bonus.  In the case of Cirel's Rhythm of Renewal, the component will regen 68 pts of health at L50.  Using a 2.71 String mod we will increase the 68 health regen to 184 regen / 4 seconds. 

Many song components are simply not designed to be used without an instrument and will otherwise be nearly useless.  These will all be discussed later but it is important to note that we are based around instruments and instruments are a heavy part of the bard.  If you have delusions of being a bard and never holding an instrument then please save your group the trouble and play a ranger or rogue.

EDIT

Here are some other screens (just because) I want to note that this is my daughters character. I helped her of course but she makes her own songs and read how to make them. Her character is only level 10.

Note the hands....

Note the little glowy feet and musical notes.......

More EDITS - My daughter pointed out to me that I equipped the wrong instrument for the run buff, apparently I should have her drum equipped for it to work right. Whatever....

www.vgbards.com/forums/index.php

Originally posted by Torak

More EDITS - My daughter pointed out to me that I equipped the wrong instrument for the run buff, apparently I should have her drum equipped for it to work right. Whatever....

NOOB!

My opinion: I paid full price for the heap it was at launch and I still feel I got my money's worth. It's gotta be worth the $10 dollar pricetag off e-bay.

EDIT: grammar go boom

Originally posted by severity3

My question. I am told the sub numbers for the game are poor. I know the mmo community is not prone to giving comapnies a second chance on a game that launched badly (very very very badly in this case). That said, the numbers will most likely not see a sudden upturn. Is it worth it to start now?. Is the game destined to be shut down in a year? 2? Are there groups to be had or would I be roaming around in empty zones wishing there were actually people to interact with?

I'm not playing Vanguard atm. I got into the open beta, saw what a terrible state it was in supposedly just pre-release, and cancelled my pre-order for the game.

But if you're interested in trying it, my advice would be to ignore the low numbers.

First, MMOs are like roaches. Look at games like Horizons. That game has survived for years on a miniscule playerbase with a tragically outdated engine and while still buggy as hell. DnL is also, beyond all reason, somehow still hanging on.

Second, don't forget who owns it. This isn't just anyone. This is the much-hated SOE. I think even if the game wasn't profitable SOE would be loathe to shut it down. It would be a PR nightmare, further tarnishing their already much-soiled image in the mmo community.

Third, last time I looked, it was also dirt cheap. If you're keen on the game and have already spent money upgrading your machine, I'd say you don't have much to lose giving it a go.

Wait for free trial or get a buddy key.

Originally posted by DailyBuzz

Originally posted by Torak

More EDITS - My daughter pointed out to me that I equipped the wrong instrument for the run buff, apparently I should have her drum equipped for it to work right. Whatever....

NOOB!

 

My opinion: I paid full price for the heap it was at launch and I still feel I got my money's worth. It's gotta be worth the $10 dollar pricetag off e-bay.

EDIT: grammar go boom

Still needs a bit of work

Is it even possible to have an unbiased opinion? Aren't opinions always biased? Isn't that what makes them opinions?

Anyways, try it out if you want, or don't. Thats my opinion.

Originally posted by misterorff

Is it even possible to have an unbiased opinion? Aren't opinions always biased? Isn't that what makes them opinions?

Anyways, try it out if you want, or don't. Thats my opinion.

You go in without the normal conceptions of your standard MMO.

For example...I heard about patches, gameplay, etc...

But, I never read about issues specifically to try and fix them, or how to do quests, etc. I also did not go in expecting WoW, etc...

I guess if you feel this way...you could say I was "biased" AFTER playing...

And that bias was against Vanguard as a game to play...for now...

Give em more time I guess...

Originally posted by misterorff

Is it even possible to have an unbiased opinion? Aren't opinions always biased? Isn't that what makes them opinions?

Anyways, try it out if you want, or don't. Thats my opinion.

An opinion is your personal view of something based on incomplete information. That seems about as far from unbiased as possible :)

Of course any statements I make about the game are completely unbiased judgements based on extensive time with the game and in context of all the other games I've ever played.  So just listen to me and you will have all that you need to know. :P