Wow... well I for one have never felt 'spit upon' or "bullied' and trust me, I've had my issues with Xillix.

Do you really have nothing better to do than wine and complain and trash things? Do you have one nice thing to say about PS? Have you ever tried to look on the bright side of things? I don't know maybe I was just brought up that way and thats why it usually takes a lot to upset or piss me off, but I am a happy cheerful person for it

When you have a problem or an issue with someone I find it helps to go directly to that specific person, find out the truth solve the issue, cut out the crap in between. In the end everyone around you much happier and can go on living their lives.

Aeri

"Whoever is happy will make others happy too. He who has courage and faith will never perish in misery."
-Anne Frank

Originally posted by AeriannaKzin

Do you really have nothing better to do than wine and complain and trash things? Do you have one nice thing to say about PS?

In fact I've been saying many good things about PS all along.  It's just that I say good things and bad things instead of all good things, so I've come under attack, as have many others.

oh, my bad..ignore that

Originally posted by AeriannaKzin

oh, my bad..ignore that

I accept your apology.

Originally posted by pstruth

 Negative feedback is banned, criticism is punished, and ballanced reviews are dismissed reflexively.  I'm very concerned with a culture where spitting on testers and players is considered necessary to survival and authority.

hydlaa.com/smf/index.php

Would you perhaps like a glass of water to wash the taste of your foot out of your mouth?

Edit- For anyone who is not ps(lies)truth, click that link and read a bit. Then I advise you to gauge what you read there against what ps(lies)truth has been saying, and decide for yourselve's where he put his foot, as well as his head. Maybe he belives what he says, but that just makes it all the more sad.

My foot isn't in my mouth.  What I said was correct.

Edit:  Read Talad's posts on this forum - or at least the ones he hasn't already deleted.  Ditto for UTMoon and others.  They've done a wonderful job of making my case for me.

Talad, though a great guy and developer, is not the best at PR.  He gets offended quickly and usually reacts poorly and often out of line.  He doesn't have a particularly strong grasp of English and that doesn't help.

Tuxide has yet to have a post that is any worse than some of yours.  Same with UTmoon, though he tolerates you less and calls you out on things.

And me?  Well... I'm just a player.

Originally posted by Nurahk

Talad, though a great guy and developer, is not the best at PR.  He gets offended quickly and usually reacts poorly and often out of line.  He doesn't have a particularly strong grasp of English and that doesn't help.

Tuxide has yet to have a post that is any worse than some of yours.  Same with UTmoon, though he tolerates you less and calls you out on things.

And me?  Well... I'm just a player.

I agree that Tuxide's posts are generally tamer than Talad's or UTmoon's.  I think UTmoon thinks he looks good if he attacks people who he considers to be enemies of the game.  I think Talad, like you say, just doesn't know any better, even though he's a good guy at heart.  This is why I'm saying the culture of the Planeshift project is corrosive and self-damaging.  It makes good people go bad.

I haven't noticed any of their posts being deleted actually but, I've not been here long enough.

And I'm not exactly sure what your points are.  UTmoon linked you to the forums which contain very few flames at all and show many players complaining and the reasonable discussions that go on afterward.  Any "joo suxxors" are usually flamed then locked but, every forum will have such threads.

If your point is that Devs should be nicer to players... well, they really have no need to be.  The Devs are constantly the most mature people on the forums even though there is no reason to expect that of them (being volunteers and what not).

If it is that the PS forums and IRC channel are a flame house.  Then no, you may visit the IRC channel or look around the forums and you will see you are wrong.  The IRC channel does tend to degrade but then, so do most :P

I do not fully believe that you want to help the community improve (I can't remember your exact phrasing) but, I don't exact put it aside as false either.  Either way, if you are, you are not going about it the right way.

I concur with pstruth, if PlaneShift is promoting incivility then there is something wrong here. I don't think any of us should tolerate incivility from anyone, and there is no reason anyone needs to be encouraging it either. Unfortunately, if PlaneShift has been promoting incivility, then I don't have the time I need to really do anything about it right now. Maybe after the current semester is over, then I will have more time.

Nurahk, I actually linked myself to the forums in my initial review.  But we've all seen the problems I and others have talked about.  Things have been much better lately because I think the devs have become much more PR savy and image-aware.  Generally speaking.  Others are still catching up on the memo.  I think that's a good sign.  But there's still this underlying attitude that anyone who speaks ill of the game is an enemy of the project, the dev team, and the player community.  That just isn't so.

Tuxide, one problem is that individuals who I speak of will hear you and, thinking they understand you, respond "Yes, yes, we must solve the problem!  The problem is those who say bad things about the game, the solution is to silence them!  Once we silence them, they will no longer be able to cause problems!", missing the point that it's the response to criticism that is the problem and not criticism itself.  So you have your work cut out for you.

You are seriously going to stick to your guns and not back down one bit on "Negative feedback is banned, criticism is punished, and ballanced reviews are dismissed reflexively..." when there is an entire forum proving you blatently wrong?

The Complaint Forum- "In order to keep the more general information boards more informative and on-topic, we have created a special forum just for complaining. We would like complaints about features, changes in features, game play style, artwork, website, dev team unresponsiveness, how things aren't the way they used to be, how newbies are ruining the game for the oldbies, etc. to all be directed here. Forum moderators are directed to move threads on these subjects from other boards to this one. We will try to remain quite lenient about what is posted here. But no personal attacks and keep it on the topic of PS. "10 reasons why PS sucks" is fair game, but "I'm a victim of " is not."

Individual threads:

Almost no weapons anymore at Trasoks and others: Probably the worst idea ever Some Negative Feedback. A lot of criticism. A ballanced review. Open for comment. Devs have responded. No flames.

boooring! Negative Feedback. Criticism. Open for comment. Devs have responded. No flames.

stopping planeshiftNegative Feedback. Criticism. Open for comment. Devs have responded. No flames.

Be kind to Newbies One directly talking about one of your main issues. No flames or rudeness from the Devs or Mods. Cold and direct answers from a Mod, yes. But you are not companining about them being cold and direct.

Some more proving you wrong:

well I'm level 5 now and have a few complaints...

I really want to like this game but...

A few that say Devs make mistakes once in a while:

I'm whiny? One that supports your claims of a Dev acting with poor judgemnet out of the hundreds that don't. Note that the thread is not locked, modified, deleted, a discussion took place, and the offending comment has been removed from the tracker. That thread alone proves you wrong on all three counts.

Confusling Another that proves you blatently wrong that negative feedback is banned. Also note the responses from the other Devs, which are very helpful.

Everyone is entitled to moments of irritation and bad judgement. It is not a widespread problem in the PS Devs. Those are a few threads out of hundreds where it does not happen. To expect things like that to never happen is naive. The utopia you are asking for does not exist. Can the folks of PlaneShift be nicer? Some of them, yes. Can some of them be grumpy or rude at times? Yes. Will this change? Not while there are passionate people working hard at something they love doing.

So, let's reevaluate.

"Negative feedback is banned"- based on the above threads.... blatently wrong.

"criticism is punished" - based on the above threads... blatently wrong.

"ballanced reviews are dismissed reflexively" - based on the above threads... blatently wrong.

I note that these are just a small selection, but they represent the greater content of the forum, as well as IRC in that the Devs, GMs, and Mods are generally courteous and helpful. If you believe what you are saying, you are obviously ill informed or have some sort of issues.

I asked folks on IRC if anyone thought your above statements are true. Only one person said they are "a little true". On that note, I will say dogs are dangerous creatures that will tear your face off, no one should have them as pets, and they should be destroyed. This is also a little true.

<modedit>

-mod removed the opinion that pstruth is not being truthful to the point of outright lies. I guess it is OK for him to call us fanbois and slander the Devs based on his opinion, but not OK for me to say he is a liar after linking directly to pages that prove that he is, in fact, lying.

My opinion about #planeshift stays the same .  By your own report, some people do recognize there's a problem.

As far as Verr's thread goes, he wasn't complaining about a single dev.  He said there were a handful of devs involved.

As far as the complaint forum goes, all you have to do is read through the responses people get and you'll smell the stink in the air.  "We're working on it" is fine, but quite often responses are insulting or condescending.  Instead of being thanked, players end up feeling like their opinions are unwanted and unwelcomed.  I don't expect anyone to take my word for it.  The posts are there for anyone to read.

Are devs always snotty, unhelpful, and vindictive?  Of course not.  But you're playing things down severely.

I just recently posted in the complaint department making a new thread about one of my concerns (not with this nick however) and I got friendly helpful and well thought out responses that made sense to me, which was really all I was asking for, was more of an explaination, no one was rude or mean to me.

Just my two tria there ;) I'm off to bed now.

pstruth, Moon provided direct links to threads to support his argument. I am wondering where yours are? Clearly not everything is removed, for you yourself state "the posts are there for anyone to read." Perhaps instead of being vague and general, you can start backing up your claims with examples.

I am here and willing to listen, and make changes if they are within my power. All you have to do is take advantage of it and follow through with my request - that way we're not floundering in What's-He-Talking-About land.

How absurd I find it that my April Fools joke should be taken out of context and used as proof of Pstruth's bizarre claims about the comportment of the PlaneShift Development team.

Disparaging remarks have been directed against my person also. Yet they are left to stand.

Remember this vital fact good readers: While the developers of PlaneShift are human and can have emotional reaction to the way certain things are phrased on the forums or irc, the player-base of PlaneShift is assured daily that the developers are at least reading their complaints.

We take action on all we can in as reasonable a time frame as our budget (zero) allows. We hold polling to have players help us choose which of the planned features the players want most or first. We actually interact with our community, is this sometimes a mixed bag? Yes. Do the positives outweigh the negatives? Yes.

Go and see how long it takes you to get a response from a lead developer at Blizzard, or Crytek. Or go one further and speak about them and their games in the fashion Pstruth speaks of PlaneShift and see if they will respond at all, and if they do, how nice it is.

It occurs to me that this pstruth person spends a great deal of energy disparaging PlaneShift, one must wonder, what is the source of such bitterness, such bile? 

Ask yourselves if you were volunteering for 10 or more hours a day, would you want to spend a good portion of it listening to this brand of "critique" Would you want to be called all manner of negative names or be treated as if you are a mean-spirited cruel power-abusing dictator because you said "No" to some shoddy player request?

There seems to be some lack of perspective and inability to see from a developer's perspective at all. Whomever this pstruth person is he/she/it seems to have countless hours to snipe at the game. I am really curious as to where so much dedication to negative posting about the game, or endless argumentation with anyone who says postive things about the game or its developers/mods/gms comes from.

Alas.

Originally posted by Anumesa
Back to the original post in this thread.. Yay PS Devs, you deserve a medal :) Thank you for everything you do, and all the crap-*looks back across all 8 pages of this thread*-that you put up with every day. I, for one, appreciate it ;)

I second that! Yay devs!

Queen of fools, your post is filled with the pot calling the kettle black.  Blame for negativity towards the dev team lies with the dev team.

Karyuu, moon's examples were flawed.  The official forum has a feature where you can read through all posts by a particular user.  Since you're asking me to name names, I've found that Caarrie and Xillix are particularly bad for making obnoxious posts.  Xillix for snide one liners - Caarrie for replying with an aggressive tone of superiority.  Talad's posts on this forum here make for a more dramatic read however.  I do not mean any of this as a personal attack, these are merely my observations on posting habits.

Oh no, snide one liners!

It is funny to me how mostly only trolls dislike my posting style, generally speaking, I am pretty well respected in the community.