Originally posted by Sovrath

 

Originally posted by Phyluxia

 

Originally posted by Kryogenic

 

Originally posted by Unrealevil

@GreenChaos - No, they did not read it.  They're unable.  It should probably be put a bit simpler for them.

It's an obvious corporate spin to lead people to believe that they are going to try to breath new life into a game as old as CoX is, and it's an even bigger spin to lead people to believe that the lion's share of that ad revenue is going to go the development of new content for the game.

Basing an argument around conspiracy theories isnt going to get you anywhere. I can see why some MMO players have this jaded attitude towards developers these days, but you cant include your qualms with the industry when debating revenue mechanics.

 

Breathing new life into CoX will be tough. I'll fully admit that. You know how they can do it tho? I would start with a good infusion of capital (see revenue generation project presented in OP). As for your theory that the money wont be reinvested into CoX and they'll just use it to bolster other projects, i say prove it. You cant. You can just assume based on whatever jaded opinion was placed upon you when class X got nerfed in game Y or promise Z was broken by developer Schmoe. Sorry bud, but not everyone is out to get/screw you. Your assumptions are always welcome, but dont expect anyone to take you seriously until you argue fact.

 

Oh, I agree that one should not approach this as a conspiriacy. However, I do think that this is a testing ground for NC to see if players will allow ads when there is no immediate and tangible and well defined benefit.

It will be interesting to see if the players notice anything new (I only play CoX very casually) and how long before players can notice anything new.

just my 2cp.

Originally posted by Oyjord

If CoH becomes F2P with ad supported revenues, then I'll reinstall the game today.

My thoughts exactly!

Originally posted by Phyluxia

 

Funny thing about this is how little i actually notice the in game boards :) They're literally just background noise to me. They could have posted up a board with 2 naked girls making out, and honestly... i prolly would never have noticed it. And the point i made above has to hold true as well. There's already some pretty strong feelings about in game ads within the MMO community, and I'm sure NCSoft is very aware of their impact. They're already treading so lightly with this idea and trying to assure the community that this wont be an intrusion, that it would be hard for me to believe that the end result would be forcing ads on players w/o choice.

 

just my 2cp.

Well, I don't know if you are a U.S. citizen or if you are old enough to remember this, but when the cable networks started, part of their sales pitch was that you could enjoy movies and programing without...

Advertisments!

Also, if you are in the U.S (I don't know about other countries) you might have noticed that there are advertisments playing during the previews during movies.

In the end it's their product and they can do what they want. But don't be surprised if "optional" ends up being "part of the service".

Also, as far as not noticing the bulletin boards, that might be the case, however you might notice them when very iconic and familar advertisment images start appearing.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Well that's the thing. They say they are going to use the money for more development. Ok. Prove it.

Will the new content be noticeable over what is already provided?

NC should say something like "we will have an additonal update each year" or something like that.

Because otherwise all they are saying is "hey, we are going to have advertisements and, as with all revenue streams, it will be used for our games."

Well of course it will.

If you choose to see nothing but the negative, click the little box that says you do not wish to participate and you get to enjoy the benifits without having the ads in you game.

Originally posted by Nightbringe1

 

Originally posted by Sovrath

Well that's the thing. They say they are going to use the money for more development. Ok. Prove it.

Will the new content be noticeable over what is already provided?

NC should say something like "we will have an additonal update each year" or something like that.

Because otherwise all they are saying is "hey, we are going to have advertisements and, as with all revenue streams, it will be used for our games."

Well of course it will.

Employment numbers for developers is hard fact directly related to development of new content. They are hiring more developers.

 

If you choose to see nothing but the negative, click the little box that says you do not wish to participate and you get to enjoy the benifits without having the ads in you game.

Oh I will.

Because the reality is, I don't mind paying for good service. I would rather them raise the monthly subscription fee because the cost of doing business has risen. That makes sense to me. But I don't like paying for something and then at some point someone says something to the effect of "We are now including ads". At the moment it is optional. That might not be the case in the future.

But as I've said, this is their "testing the waters" and we all know what will be coming down the pike. Some of you might not care about advertisments. But I do. And I know there are others.

This is not to say that I am against all ads. But when I am paying for a service and they insist on giving me ads, then that starts being an issue. As I said above, Cable Tv's big selling point was "no ads".

Wish I had a dime for every ad on there!

Originally posted by Sovrath

 All they have proven is that they have kept up on their promise to keep the game updated. Which is fine.

So will that content (as I've mentioned above) be noticeable. Will the players actually see beefier or more expansions OR will that money go to stem the ever rising cost of creating those expansions?

Based on your own statements, then we should take them for their word.  They've kept up on their promise.  There's a new game in the same genre due out next year, not including the rumored PS3 DC Comics project.  One would gather there's plenty of reasons not to loose the "trust" or good feelings of their currently "exclusive" community.

Your last statement raises decent interesting questions.  However, there's plenty to speculate on.  There always is.  For now however, they've kept their promise and provided an out for those who do not wish to participate.  For these reasons, the least we could do is give them the benefit of the doubt.  They've earned that.

Should you choose not to support, vote with your dollars.  BTW, while I know and understand (and have grown up in the cable age) where you're coming from, I don't remember seeing commercials during a movie or show on HBO.  :)  In between and on other channels? sure.  I guess my tolerance is greater than some.

Best wishes & happy gaming.

Originally posted by Phyluxia

 

Originally posted by Guintu

I really don't see many people saying ok to the advertising unless their going to get something in return.  I mean just so NCsoft can get more money to add content isn't going to be a good enough reason for most players.  If they gave a discound like making it $5 a month or $15 for 2 months or even better F2P servers with advertising then I can see that working.  Actually if they made servers that are F2P I know so many people hate ads in game that they would pay $15 a month just to not have the ads.  I don't think NCsoft sees the big picutre, maybe a few people wouldn't mind the ads, but I know more people would hate them.  I've read enough forums with people complaining about ads in games.  I guarentee you that if the put ads in games and let people opt-out, probably about 85% or more will opt-out.  I'm all for advertising in games, but I would even opt-out if I wasn't getting something for the ads. 

I see what you're saying, but the end result of this project is to make the gaming experience better (or so they say). They could push whatever revenue they make from this into F2P servers, but that doesnt further the development of the game necessarily. Personally, i would much prefer that they roll money into faster/better updates that give us great new content for the game. How long have people wanted end game content? Imagine that these in game ads add enough revenue to hire 2 more devs to dedicate to end game content. I dont see how this can be a bad thing given the framework they've laid out.

 

That being said, tho, i would be curious to see quarterly reports as to how much money this project brings in and what it's being utilized for... simply to ensure they keep their promises.

The questions they should be asking to see if this is going to actually help is:

1.  How many people will actually keep the ads on?

2.  If we made a F2P server with ads how many of the P2P people would move to F2P?  I would think it would be about 1-3% because most people would pay to not have ads in a game.

3.  How many new players would they get if they made a F2P server with ads (I think this is the big question)?   I think the game population would double if not triple. 

4.  When Champions comes out (and if its good) how many people will leave COH/COV?

Originally posted by Kryogenic

 

Originally posted by Sovrath

The more I think about this the more I think it's a slippery slope and also a bit of "testing the waters" by NC.

Because, think about it...

Any money that NC makes will of course go to its games. Of course they say that all money from this campaign will go to CoX but there's nothing stopping them from also using some of that money for other purposes.

So the crux of it is "allow the ingame advertising and we will get more money - We just choose, at this time to use it for CoX".

Then if enough players say "yes" (because in the end they are not going to be getting "money off" of their subscription to allow it. They are merely giving NC permission to make more money for their game) NC can then ascertain whether or not players will allow in game marketing when they are not getting a free sub or money off.

It's a bit cynical but I think it's true.

Thank you. I'm glad someone is using their head for more than a hat rack.

 

This is the point I was trying to get across, but you conveyed it alot more eloquently than I did.

LIfe is full of testing by people.  To fear such testing is to naturually fear life. 

I commute to and from school several times a week. Where I drive depends on which residence I am coming from, within the city, or in a small town some 30ish miles away. Either way I go, I am inundated with ads. Everything from stickers on the cars around me, to giant billboards littering the country-side, to the migratory herds of roadside signs that pimp the latest housing development. Do I pay for the gas that drives my car through this environment? You betcha. Do I pay taxes to build and maintain those roads I am driving on? Yep. Don't I spend money buying the products of the companies that are placing these ads where I can see them already? Sure. But the advertising is still conspicuously placed so that it is almost impossible to miss it. It's part of the environment. I'd like to see a few less billboards just as much as anyone else but it would be silly if the city suddenly decided to pass a law that they all hand to be blank. They'd still be there, littering the landscape, would they not? They just wouldn't be PRODUCTIVE.

If it makes NC Soft  money for me to see ads that are presented in the current context of the landscape? I will gladly leave them on. In fact, I wondered long ago why they didn't do this. The billboards have always been there. We've been reading them all along. What difference does it make if they are advertising Crey or Pepsi? A billboard is a billboard is a billboard. There are plenty of places they could put ads, and truthfully it would make the game more immersive and realistic to me. I'd like to see flashing signs that could be rented on the blimp in Atlas Park!

I do agree about the 'in your face' ads, like having to click through to reach a login screen. That is unacceptable. But as long as they are tasteful and realistic with the landscape, there's no reason for me to turn them off.

We all watch movies. (Well, most of you do, anyway....) They have the same thing, and to an even greater degree. Not only do they place billboards for money but just about any prop they can get away with making money for. I am sure M&M/Mars is still kicking their own butts for not hooking up with E.T. Reese's Pieces became a household name in candy because of that movie. 

 I think it is great that they do give the option, for those who choose not to exercise it. Personally I think the new content should be presented and tailored to those who do, and are in effect helping pay for it. Suggestions could be submitted via the ingame interface and the amount of hours that you had your ads on could be included in your requests. More weight could be given to those who are actually actively contributing to the company's ability to afford said new development.  

 Not that I expect that to happen, but hey, I can dream, right? 

 Just my .01 female opinion.

Originally posted by Guintu

 

But then we're just hoping the money is going to be spent to make the game better.  Look at our government and all the propositions we have every year.  How much money actually gets spent on things that are promised instead of a nicer hourse or car for the fat cats?  What are they going to do give a $5 a month raise to people and the rest will go to the CEO of Ncsoft?  Plus just because you give someone more money doesn't make them more creative, unless they have people threatening to leave the company unless they get a raise.  What are they going to do with the extra money they make?  Give raises?  Hire more people?  Build a nicer lounge?  Buy Rock Band so people can play it when their not working? 

 

The questions they should be asking to see if this is going to actually help is:

1.  How many people will actually keep the ads on?

2.  If we made a F2P server with ads how many of the P2P people would move to F2P?  I would think it would be about 1-3% because most people would pay to not have ads in a game.

3.  How many new players would they get if they made a F2P server with ads (I think this is the big question)?   I think the game population would double if not triple. 

4.  When Champions comes out (and if its good) how many people will leave COH/COV?

You're dizzying yourself with questions.  You have a simple choice if you're a subscriber.  Ads on or off.  Make your choice.  If you find you don't care for the decisions made down the road, you don't have to remain a subscriber.  While it might be a fun mental exercise, chasing your tail with possibilities you can't answer is pointless.  The only way you'll be able to find out it through time and patience.

So, until then... Game on! 

Typical inept MMO devs.

I swear, the current dev teams out there couldnt get water from a river if you gave them a pail and showed them how to use it.

If they had any brains or creativity, they would simply put real life items in quests in a way that was unintrusive and immersive (and the gods forbid actually taught something)

An example:

Dimbulb the electric/science based villian gets information that a nearby military contractor has made a breakthru in AI.

Upon gaining entrance to the final area, where the AI is stored on a computer,he finds that the AI will actually agree to go with him IF he can beat it in a game (insert some computer game like mini game here).

BUT sadly his efforts to gain access to the room, and the efforts of those trying to stop him have destroyed all the other computers in the room.

What is he to do ? Some searching on his part, turns up a bunch of working computer parts (insert real life computer parts here).He realizes he can make his own computer by assembling the parts, and that by using the better parts (like for instance a 9800gx graphics card, instead of the other card he found during his search -which was a geforce 2)he can increase his chance of beating the computer with his assembled rig.

In this simple example, you have numerous inconspicuous advertisement opportunities,an intelligent crafting oriented opportunity, a mini game option,and a good chance to actually teach your players something useful all hidden in a single  story building and immersive quest.

But even if you took a dev from one of the current teams and spent a month spoon feeding him this simple idea, he'd still screw it up to no end.

Originally posted by Sylvanus

 

Originally posted by Guintu

 

But then we're just hoping the money is going to be spent to make the game better.  Look at our government and all the propositions we have every year.  How much money actually gets spent on things that are promised instead of a nicer hourse or car for the fat cats?  What are they going to do give a $5 a month raise to people and the rest will go to the CEO of Ncsoft?  Plus just because you give someone more money doesn't make them more creative, unless they have people threatening to leave the company unless they get a raise.  What are they going to do with the extra money they make?  Give raises?  Hire more people?  Build a nicer lounge?  Buy Rock Band so people can play it when their not working? 

 

The questions they should be asking to see if this is going to actually help is:

1.  How many people will actually keep the ads on?

2.  If we made a F2P server with ads how many of the P2P people would move to F2P?  I would think it would be about 1-3% because most people would pay to not have ads in a game.

3.  How many new players would they get if they made a F2P server with ads (I think this is the big question)?   I think the game population would double if not triple. 

4.  When Champions comes out (and if its good) how many people will leave COH/COV?

You're dizzying yourself with questions.  You have a simple choice if you're a subscriber.  Ads on or off.  Make your choice.  If you find you don't care for the decisions made down the road, you don't have to remain a subscriber.  While it might be a fun mental exercise, chasing your tail with possibilities you can't answer is pointless.  The only way you'll be able to find out it through time and patience.

 

So, until then... Game on! 

Even free games like 2moons let you turn off the ads, but if you leave them on you get double expeience.  The whole idea is give the gamer something, say thank you for playing the game and leaving the ads on.  Thank you for upping my pay check so I can buy a BMW 500 series instead of the 300 series.  Thank you for giviing me more money so I can send my kid to USC instead of Csun.  Don't just say here are ads, you can turn them off, but if you leave them on we'll make more money.

I think in-game advertising is complete rubish, personally - whether optional or not.  If the game has too low of subs to support more content (which, CoX does not btw) then I say reduce the dev team to minimum, and let that be the end of it, unless the game is completely borked as in SWG's case.  In this dire situation, the game should be dismantled and taken offline indefinitely.

If the development company is getting money from advertising, then they ought to let you play for free - that's how I see it.  if you have an option, then you should have the option to not pay a subscription along with that.

Originally posted by WRyan

I think in-game advertising is complete rubish, personally - whether optional or not.  If the game has too low of subs to support more content (which, CoX does not btw) then I say reduce the dev team to minimum, and let that be the end of it, unless the game is completely borked as in SWG's case.  In this dire situation, the game should be dismantled and taken offline indefinitely.

If the development company is getting money from advertising, then they ought to let you play for free - that's how I see it.  if you have an option, then you should have the option to not pay a subscription along with that.

 But you're missing the point of the adds in the first place. It's not to decrease subscription costs, which I would love, but I have no problem paying the 14.99 per month as long as the game is good (which CoX is), but the point of them is to raise money for better updates, which can even mean less time between updates.

 The whole thing here is not that the dev team doesn't have enough money, I just think they're trying to get a little more, to make the gaming experience better.

 But seriously, I don't mean to sound like a dick here, but you can turn them off... why are so many people complaining about this? You don't even know how it's going to look. And you can turn it off! LOL

 If you don't like it... then turn it off.

 That is all.

Optional ads are a great way to generate revenue and is not painfully obvious when implemented well. I just hope that NCSoft will really use this income towards further CoH development.

Originally posted by Guintu

 

Originally posted by Sylvanus

 

Originally posted by Guintu

 

But then we're just hoping the money is going to be spent to make the game better.  Look at our government and all the propositions we have every year.  How much money actually gets spent on things that are promised instead of a nicer hourse or car for the fat cats?  What are they going to do give a $5 a month raise to people and the rest will go to the CEO of Ncsoft?  Plus just because you give someone more money doesn't make them more creative, unless they have people threatening to leave the company unless they get a raise.  What are they going to do with the extra money they make?  Give raises?  Hire more people?  Build a nicer lounge?  Buy Rock Band so people can play it when their not working? 

 

The questions they should be asking to see if this is going to actually help is:

1.  How many people will actually keep the ads on?

2.  If we made a F2P server with ads how many of the P2P people would move to F2P?  I would think it would be about 1-3% because most people would pay to not have ads in a game.

3.  How many new players would they get if they made a F2P server with ads (I think this is the big question)?   I think the game population would double if not triple. 

4.  When Champions comes out (and if its good) how many people will leave COH/COV?

You're dizzying yourself with questions.  You have a simple choice if you're a subscriber.  Ads on or off.  Make your choice.  If you find you don't care for the decisions made down the road, you don't have to remain a subscriber.  While it might be a fun mental exercise, chasing your tail with possibilities you can't answer is pointless.  The only way you'll be able to find out it through time and patience.

 

So, until then... Game on! 

X-Play had a conversation about ingame advertising today and Morgan Webb said that if their is ads in a game the gamer should get something for having to look at them.  I agree.  We pay for cable tv and on most stations we still have ads, movie prices go up and their playing ads before the movie even starts, plus more and more movie and tv shows are using product placement.  We're so use to paying for watching ads that now their are people who are letting this happen in games.  We're paying for the game and they hope that we keep the ads on.  I'll turn them off thank you.  If they give me something to leave the ads on then I'll turn them on.

 

Even free games like 2moons let you turn off the ads, but if you leave them on you get double expeience.  The whole idea is give the gamer something, say thank you for playing the game and leaving the ads on.  Thank you for upping my pay check so I can buy a BMW 500 series instead of the 300 series.  Thank you for giviing me more money so I can send my kid to USC instead of Csun.  Don't just say here are ads, you can turn them off, but if you leave them on we'll make more money.

So re-investing all the money made back into the game to deliver you a better gaming experience is not something for you?

Ever since NCSoft took over the game completely, we are slowly starting to see more micropayment (wedding pack anyone?) and alternate revenue streams.  Makes me wonder if the game is losing subs and therefore not as profitable as NCSoft thought it would be.

At any rate, it's an optional function but...

I can't help but think this is a slippery slope.  I can't help but think NCSoft is just experimenting on how much the playerbase is willing to accept.  Before NCSoft took over, the devs said there would be no in-game advertising but now there will be.  I expect to see more micropayment options like the wedding pack in the near future which were generally free before.

I don't like the trend.

Originally posted by SpectralHunt

Ever since NCSoft took over the game completely, we are slowly starting to see more micropayment (wedding pack anyone?) and alternate revenue streams.  Makes me wonder if the game is losing subs and therefore not as profitable as NCSoft thought it would be.

At any rate, it's an optional function but...

I can't help but think this is a slippery slope.  I can't help but think NCSoft is just experimenting on how much the playerbase is willing to accept.  Before NCSoft took over, the devs said there would be no in-game advertising but now there will be.  I expect to see more micropayment options like the wedding pack in the near future which were generally free before.

I don't like the trend.

 

 Now that you put it that way, I do tend to agree with you...

if there is in-game advertising in an MMO, why do I need to pay a monthly fee? That doesn't make much sense to me at all.

Wow... some people just want to be terminally unhappy and disgruntled.  It never ceases to amaze me the level of angst, bitterness and outright anger (not to mention suspicion and distrust) there is pervasely running through *gaming* forums.  GAMING.  As in a recreational activity that is a pure luxury OPTION in your life.

Some of you people really are emotionally disturbed.  And it is perfectly valid to make this judgement based solely on what you post here.  Internet postings are more than enough to identify a chronically unhappy and obsessive personality.

When a company decides to test the waters with an OPT-IN system of ad supported revenue and your reaction is resentment, rage and deep seeded suspicion, it is time to step AWAY from the keyboard.  When you find yourself saying things like "ALL OF THESE DAMN IDIOT MMO DEVS!!!!" you are TOO EMOTIONALLY INVESTED in GAMING.  Step AWAY from the keyboard.

Do you people who react this way HONESTLY not see how abnormal it is?  If you DESPISE the games and their developers DONT play them!  Its as if these companies were preventing you from going home to see your family or something.  They produce a product that you do NOT have to buy, they arent your mother and father who owe you some kind of legacy.

All of this furor over ads and yet I bet so many of you SWOON over Google.  After all, Google is the DARLING of the millenials.  VERY odd that the conspiracy obsessed generation is in LOVE with an ad agency.