Pirates of the Burning Sea

Some of the old timers that posted in the SWG forums might remember me.  I decided to give this game a try....

And I believe that this game, like SWG once was, is a good game that has tremendous potential.  Some compare this game to EVE.  I do not think that is the case.  For better or worse, EVE is an intensly complex game.  Also, there are no corrupt GMs...... yet.  :-p  I think POTBS fits in the spectrum nicely between WoW (very easy, instant gratification), and EVE (bring out War and Peace to read while you play it).  The ship combat is a very nice change, and there are multiple layers.  You really have to be tactical to be successful in multi ship battles.  The economy is incredibly deep.  For those who have loved the free market economies in past games, you will love POTBS.  (That happens to be me.)  For those who want to know exactly where to get everything, this game won't appeal.  (And that's not a slam, certain people don't want to invest a great deal of time, and still have fun.  Games like WoW suit that purpose more.)

Yet for all its depth, there are still some glaring shortfalls.  For a game so centered on the free market, good luck promoting yourself as a crafter.  There's no sense of authenticity in your goods.  Also, shopping at the auction house can be a truly annoying experience, as you don't know what the price is for the goods.  It's not like a true auction house where you can just bid things up.  What they need to do is show what goods are available at what price.  Even better, who makes them.

As far as melee combat, its the attack of the rubber bands.  This kills any real sense of immersion.  While it's not that bad in boarding combat or missions, trucking through cities can be a real pain.  Even when nobody is on, Bartica can be a lagfest. 

Also, there's not a gigantic difference right now between the classes.  In PvP, certainly certain professions are more geared towards certain roles, but freetraders obtain little if any economic advantage.  (Advanced structure camps are only for the basic structures.)  The idea that a naval officer should be an economic powerhouse strains credulity.  Yes everyone should be able to make money, but that money should be diversified.  This isn't a gigantic problem, but its something that is irritating.  Give freetraders a real substantive bonus (i.e. give them more lots, or if you are feeling really draconian, limit crafting to freetraders.)

I think this game is good.  It has the potential to be great.  Most importantly, I'm glad to see they are taking a real step towards not being just like every other game.  There has to be a way to fix that in melee combat.

My personal score would be a 7.5-8 out of 10, and I see no reason why this game shouldn't be a 9 without a few minor changes.

Permit me to ask have you reached the endgame? The fact you say nothing of that inclines me to believe you are low or mid level and that means you haven't seen the big problems that surface later on. One faction has no endgame (Pirates) except sitting in a red circle, other three factions also have port battles and that is abotu it unles you count in one very poorly made raid instance. People are leaving after a month or two of port battles because lo and behold at top level you can shot at ships and that is about it.

Yes, POTBS is between WoW and EVE and it achieves that by taking elements of various MMO's and mixing them together in one rather poor mash. Not to mention that, for example, EVE has superior economy and WoW superior linear structure. I fail to see what is so groundbreaking in this game save using of sailing ships. The game is, after all, listed as a fantasy game and its historic base is diluted at best. If it was fantasy game using mounted combat instead of ships it would be deemed a complete and utter failure.

The economy manufactures nothing but combat items for ship to ship combat. Majortiy of surviving societies equip themselves internally by utilising version of planned economy. The market is glutted, AH is cumbersome and war (touted strength) has no impact on trading as all AH's are accessible to almost anyone. Personally I don't think that makes a deep economy or emulates the free market. Even if, in theory, the simulated free market worked - the game is supposed to be placed in the period of mercantilism and that is quite different from free economy.

Game has lots of problems, shortcommings, flaws, and poor implementations. It is ship to ship combat with a mediocre and unblanced game attached to it. If that warrants 7.5 - 8 / 10 so be it but lots of gaming magazines and specialised sites awarded it similar ratings and it is generally accepted that those were little more then paid advertisements. Awarding 9 for minor changes is fine, but I would like to advocate that WoW be awarded 12 and EVE 15 on the same merit. I dislike both games but recognize them as success in their areas.

Strip the novelty of ship to ship combat and there is really little left. Personal opinion though.

Based on the fact this is your comments I thought it was pretty fair. 

Originally posted by iceman00

...  Also, shopping at the auction house can be a truly annoying experience, as you don't know what the price is for the goods.  It's not like a true auction house where you can just bid things up.  What they need to do is show what goods are available at what price.  Even better, who makes them.

....

Here I have to strongly disagree.

You are able to see the last price paid for a good - in that respect it works like the sharemarket IRL.
Based on that you can make a decision if you think that price is valid and if you are prepared to pay that price yourself?
Then, you have the option to make a bid of any amount you think fair or that you think you can get away with ;-)

Sometimes you get a 'bargin' - but you are never forced to pay any price... just like an MMO Gamer... if the price or sub is higher than you are prepared to pay for a product you can walk away.

And I have a question based on your comment "What they need to do is show what goods are available at what price.  Even better, who makes them."
Why do you need to know who makes them?

Originally posted by iceman00

...

My personal score would be a 7.5-8 out of 10, and I see no reason why this game shouldn't be a 9 without a few minor changes.

I think this is where reviewers and gamers have parted ways over the years.

When a reviewer says "7" these days it seems he means "mediocre" - unfortunately for a gamer (and most of the rest of the world) half of 10 is 5....
When a reviewer says "9" he seems to mean "it's very good" but gamers read a 9 as excellent bordering on perfect.
And when a reviewer says 10 he means "The last one in this series was a hit... (this is either HALO 4, a WoW expansion or the latest Far Cry with Direct X 10 features)... so I don't care if this puppy doesn't even install... I know which side my bread is buttered on... buggered if I will be rocking the boat!"
And players, for their part grow a little more cynical...

[quote]Originally posted by iceman00

I think this game is good.  It has the potential to be great.  Most importantly, I'm glad to see they are taking a real step towards not being just like every other game.  There has to be a way to fix that in melee combat.
My personal score would be a 7.5-8 out of 10, and I see no reason why this game shouldn't be a 9 without a few minor changes.
[/quote]
 

he hasn't played this game

there are no comments on the avatar work

no comments on artwork

no comments on any real mechanics just a very general "opinion'

no real comments on anything

He makes a negative comment about the one thing that is in fact unique to this game and that does make it different and shows a basic lack of understanding of the AH system

He has not played this game if he has it was for under 15 minutes and he never got past the first few missions in thes starter town

I read this yesterday and was speechless.  The fact of the matter is those that play the game honestly state on the boards even (the die hards) that "and this isn't even a very good game" and the only reason they stick arounds is because they made friends.

One thing this game is not is complex.  It simpler then WoW and it certainly doesn't beat the epic failure everyone loves to hate which is SWG.  If SWG was a failure with all that stuff in it and the massive avatar customization, the huge universe and complicated systems with more then one thing to do what does that make this along side it?   People are returning to SWG right now in droves me included.  Many of the people I met say the same thing "if SWG was a failure what does that make POTBS?"  Maybe in the future it might be  afull game.  Many of us weer willing to wait till it is a full game.  However right now its just a bare bones game that is incredibly simple and easy to use with only one purpose.  

Avatar work = something I have held my tongue about for a long long time pales in comaparison to most older games out there that people have actualy played

Artwork = the places they have redecorated like tortuga are great the rest of the world which is tiny is made from a set of templates.

Combat = avcom AI is well not particularly intelligent either on ships or in the water.  So for that reason the PVE game is incredibly easy to beat.  

Class balance = there is none there is one all powerful class the rest serve not much of a purpose with the exception of the freetrader who's big bonus is to haul goods so he is slave to the naval class

Music is decent

Red ring system is presently broken and turned off

How in heck can you give this game an 8 or more ? when the only plus is has is decent artists who build cool towns right now?

Community

interface = horrible leads to isolation no hampers fluid gameplay the print and text are horrible half the community complains it can't see it .. its made for younger eyeballs..

Game mechanics are heavily instanced everything occurs in an instance causing a total lack of continuity in the world .  

Exploration - there is none

I could go on but I hate to say it I think I have said enough and was holding back in hopes that things gameplay wise would improve

Originally posted by Illyrian

Permit me to ask have you reached the endgame? The fact you say nothing of that inclines me to believe you are low or mid level and that means you haven't seen the big problems that surface later on. One faction has no endgame (Pirates) except sitting in a red circle, other three factions also have port battles and that is abotu it unles you count in one very poorly made raid instance. People are leaving after a month or two of port battles because lo and behold at top level you can shot at ships and that is about it.

 

Yes, POTBS is between WoW and EVE and it achieves that by taking elements of various MMO's and mixing them together in one rather poor mash. Not to mention that, for example, EVE has superior economy and WoW superior linear structure. I fail to see what is so groundbreaking in this game save using of sailing ships. The game is, after all, listed as a fantasy game and its historic base is diluted at best. If it was fantasy game using mounted combat instead of ships it would be deemed a complete and utter failure.

 

The economy manufactures nothing but combat items for ship to ship combat. Majortiy of surviving societies equip themselves internally by utilising version of planned economy. The market is glutted, AH is cumbersome and war (touted strength) has no impact on trading as all AH's are accessible to almost anyone. Personally I don't think that makes a deep economy or emulates the free market. Even if, in theory, the simulated free market worked - the game is supposed to be placed in the period of mercantilism and that is quite different from free economy.

 

Game has lots of problems, shortcommings, flaws, and poor implementations. It is ship to ship combat with a mediocre and unblanced game attached to it. If that warrants 7.5 - 8 / 10 so be it but lots of gaming magazines and specialised sites awarded it similar ratings and it is generally accepted that those were little more then paid advertisements. Awarding 9 for minor changes is fine, but I would like to advocate that WoW be awarded 12 and EVE 15 on the same merit. I dislike both games but recognize them as success in their areas.

 

Strip the novelty of ship to ship combat and there is really little left. Personal opinion though.

I never said the game was "groundbreaking" that's just you inserting words in my mouth.  I said that some of the things they did was a refreshing change from the linear world, and I stand by that.  Please, when critquing what I said, critque what I said.

Elsewhere I've stated this about the endgame.  I think its absolutely absurd that you should be able to hit level 50 in a month.  The fact that I criticized the auction house tells me your nothing but someone looking to cause trouble and flame a game he's disenfranchised with.  On the one hand, you say the game isn't free market, and then you complain that the AH's are available to almost anyone.  Such a wide exposure is typically a precondition of a free market, that cuts out the guild mentality of price fixing and "good ol boy clubs".

As far as societies working together, that in no way guts the chance at a free market.  Most socities (at least on my server) do not MANDATE people produce this or that good at this or that price.  They ask for suggestions, and ask that when dealing with others in society, the price be lowered.  When other people in the society are selling for lower, you drop prices or find yourself out of the market.  In other words, that sounds a lot like a free market and supply and demand to me.

If we're rating how WoW and EvE worked in their respective areas, then they would be rated higher (the fact that EvE has had a very large problem with corruption however limits that rating.)  I don't like WoW.  but I understand that Blizzard set out to do something, and what they set out to do was achieved beyond their expectations.

Originally posted by Gyrus

Based on the fact this is your comments I thought it was pretty fair. 

 

Originally posted by iceman00

...  Also, shopping at the auction house can be a truly annoying experience, as you don't know what the price is for the goods.  It's not like a true auction house where you can just bid things up.  What they need to do is show what goods are available at what price.  Even better, who makes them.

....

Here I have to strongly disagree.

You are able to see the last price paid for a good - in that respect it works like the sharemarket IRL.
Based on that you can make a decision if you think that price is valid and if you are prepared to pay that price yourself?
Then, you have the option to make a bid of any amount you think fair or that you think you can get away with ;-)

Sometimes you get a 'bargin' - but you are never forced to pay any price... just like an MMO Gamer... if the price or sub is higher than you are prepared to pay for a product you can walk away.

And I have a question based on your comment "What they need to do is show what goods are available at what price.  Even better, who makes them."
Why do you need to know who makes them?

Originally posted by iceman00

...

My personal score would be a 7.5-8 out of 10, and I see no reason why this game shouldn't be a 9 without a few minor changes.

I think this is where reviewers and gamers have parted ways over the years.

When a reviewer says "7" these days it seems he means "mediocre" - unfortunately for a gamer (and most of the rest of the world) half of 10 is 5....
When a reviewer says "9" he seems to mean "it's very good" but gamers read a 9 as excellent bordering on perfect.
And when a reviewer says 10 he means "The last one in this series was a hit... (this is either HALO 4, a WoW expansion or the latest Far Cry with Direct X 10 features)... so I don't care if this puppy doesn't even install... I know which side my bread is buttered on... buggered if I will be rocking the boat!"
And players, for their part grow a little more cynical...

I was more concerned with that you only see "averages."  Yes you can tell a sell history, but you can't tell how much is left at that available price in the sell history.  As far as "who makes them", its called authenticity, and a sense of advertising.  We had an armorsmith in SWG who was the dominant man on the server.  If you see "made by Severius Drax" you knew you were getting the best stuff there was, and more importantly, that he always had the best stuff always available thanks to the way he setup things and ran things.  Naval Officers get known in their second or first rates or via their ship.  What way does a freetrader get known?

Originally posted by ummax

[quote]Originally posted by iceman00

I think this game is good.  It has the potential to be great.  Most importantly, I'm glad to see they are taking a real step towards not being just like every other game.  There has to be a way to fix that in melee combat.
My personal score would be a 7.5-8 out of 10, and I see no reason why this game shouldn't be a 9 without a few minor changes.
[/quote]
 

he hasn't played this game

there are no comments on the avatar work

no comments on artwork

no comments on any real mechanics just a very general "opinion'

no real comments on anything

He makes a negative comment about the one thing that is in fact unique to this game and that does make it different and shows a basic lack of understanding of the AH system

He has not played this game if he has it was for under 15 minutes and he never got past the first few missions in thes starter town

I read this yesterday and was speechless.  The fact of the matter is those that play the game honestly state on the boards even (the die hards) that "and this isn't even a very good game" and the only reason they stick arounds is because they made friends.

One thing this game is not is complex.  It simpler then WoW and it certainly doesn't beat the epic failure everyone loves to hate which is SWG.  If SWG was a failure with all that stuff in it and the massive avatar customization, the huge universe and complicated systems with more then one thing to do what does that make this along side it?   People are returning to SWG right now in droves me included.  Many of the people I met say the same thing "if SWG was a failure what does that make POTBS?"  Maybe in the future it might be  afull game.  Many of us weer willing to wait till it is a full game.  However right now its just a bare bones game that is incredibly simple and easy to use with only one purpose.  

Avatar work = something I have held my tongue about for a long long time pales in comaparison to most older games out there that people have actualy played

Artwork = the places they have redecorated like tortuga are great the rest of the world which is tiny is made from a set of templates.

Combat = avcom AI is well not particularly intelligent either on ships or in the water.  So for that reason the PVE game is incredibly easy to beat.  

Class balance = there is none there is one all powerful class the rest serve not much of a purpose with the exception of the freetrader who's big bonus is to haul goods so he is slave to the naval class

Music is decent

Red ring system is presently broken and turned off

How in heck can you give this game an 8 or more ? when the only plus is has is decent artists who build cool towns right now?

Community

interface = horrible leads to isolation no hampers fluid gameplay the print and text are horrible half the community complains it can't see it .. its made for younger eyeballs..

Game mechanics are heavily instanced everything occurs in an instance causing a total lack of continuity in the world .  

Exploration - there is none

I could go on but I hate to say it I think I have said enough and was holding back in hopes that things gameplay wise would improve

 

So let me get this straight.  I haven't played the game because I don't mention things YOU dislike?  Is that correct?  I play 4 or 5 hours a night.

And an auction house is something that makes it different?  I think not, WoW has an auction house, several other games have an auction house as well.  The idea of an auction house doesn't make something new.  The fact that the game is mostly craft based and a free market is not a "new" idea, but an idea that in the age of everyone trying to be like Wow people shied away from.

So I'll say this to the person above, if you are going to critque what I say, critque what I say, not what you want me to say so you can erect a straw man.