So, this is a term that gets tossed around pretty often on MMO forums (I know I'm guilty), but what exactly makes up a dynamic game world?  Is there a specific list of "must have" features or does the term mean something different for everyone?  More important, is this even viable for current MMO's?  

For me, there are at least a few features that would be absolutely necessary for a dynamic world and I know that some of them have been done before in past MMO's, so I do think it's viable.  All we really need is someone to put it all together and build a game around it.

I'm interested in seeing what features everyone else will come up with, so I'm not going to list any, but I will give my idea about how a dynamic world would play out.  Basically, I could log on and feel NO urge to level or grind or what ever.  Just experiencing and interacting with the game world would be entertaining enough.  Sure, you can do this in any current MMO, but is it really that entertaining (in most cases)?  I would say no, but I couldn't explain without listing features

So, what do you think?

For the record, 'dynamic' means "continually changing".

What you're describing is a highly detailed digital sandbox-ish world. Or something to that effect.

I'm rather confused as to what you want to discuss.

Id suggest you read this. Very very interesting and I personally can not wait till we have MMORPG's of the same depth as the one described in the link.

http://www.guildcafe.com/Vox/04073-Smith-Dynamic-Worlds.html

edit *fixed the link*

Originally posted by Plasuma!!!

For the record, 'dynamic' means "continually changing".

What you're describing is a highly detailed digital sandbox-ish world. Or something to that effect.

I'm rather confused as to what you want to discuss.

I know what dynamic means.  What I'm asking, is what specific MMO features do players expect to see in a dynamic game world?  Could be features that already exist some where or could be features that no one has done yet.  I doubt that anyone has the exact same ideas as to what makes a game world "dynamic".

Well, I would expect a dynamic MMO world to be everychanging, mainly:

• Quests pop up on a more or less random basis, in a realistic manner. When you meet a questgiver, or otherwise stumble over a quest, you can take it or leave it be. If you return a too long time later, they have either solved themselves or have been solved by someone else. They dont repeat as such, meaning you might get the same questplot again, but there will be random changes - they will start at a different place, the NPCs will have different names, you have to visit different places, maybe you have to fight different kinds of mobs, the dungeons will have changed their layout, etc.
• NPCs have a schedule. They make "plans". They look different and have unique, random names. They appear and disappear again, over time, so if you where half a year ago in the game in some town and met its mayor, dont expect it to be the same guy when you return there. Also, if you kill an NPC during a quest, its really gone.
• The world is split into kingdoms, or countries. Each country can be conquered by players. Each country can attack other countries as well, to get tribute.
• The world can be changed by players. Noteably, they can build houses of various kinds, maybe even castles.
• Finally, its also possible to have tools to change the scenery. Like creating a mine, or changing a forest into an acre.

In other words, the players interact with a simulation of a more or less realistic world.

Thanks for the link mulcher.  That was an interesting read, sums it all up pretty well.

Adamantine, I like your idea of a quest system.  If the game has to have quests, I'd prefer to see them implemented in some way similar to that.

Originally posted by mulcher

Id suggest you read this. Very very interesting and I personally can not wait till we have MMORPG's of the same depth as the one described in the link.

http://www.guildcafe.com/Vox/04073-Smith-Dynamic-Worlds.html

 

edit *fixed the link*

I read the information in the link.  It was very good until the end where the writer broke from simple explanation to their own personal opinions.  Thanks for the link though. 

"As the Internet and gaming communities continue to grow, gamers are taking an increasing interest in plugging the community itself into the game world in such a way that everyone can experience a world that follows one rule: what you do means something. Meaning is what everyone searches for in everything they do and is exactly where the spirit of all these details becomes apparent."

This is what i describe what a dynamic world is. Every player wants what they do to actually MEAN something and will affect EVERYONES gameplay from there on. For example, some guild in some game decides to attack a major city to an opposing faction. They win. This would mean that EVERYONE from the opposing faction would be affected various ways like they would lose specific benefits like rare ores or something.

The quote is from the link that was posted above. If you follow that link, the writer will tell you what you need to know about that topic. Also thx mulcher for posting a VERY useful link on this subject. I've been thinking about dynamic worlds lately and this post gave me all the answers!

 I hope this helped you as it help me!!

I suppose it would be a sin if I didn't post something in a thread with the word 'dynamic' in the title.

I don't know if there are any specific features that I would need to see in a dynamic game world, but all features implemented should enhance the overall design goal of having a dynamic gameplay experience.

I agree completely that the ability of players to change the world through their actions, no matter how small is of the utmost importance.  Player interaction either cooperatively or competitively on whatever scale (large or small) is the vast untapped potential of the MMORPG genre.  Given the right tools in the right system these interactions varying from the simple to the complex would create dynamic content of every imaginable kind with no need for generic quests, instancing, and updated story content.  Instead any updates could focus on improving aspects of the game that provide more depth.

One thing that I think is vital to a dynamic game world is to have a dynamic natural economy functioning in the basic ruleset of the game world before any players even begin to interact with the environment.  I have posted on this subject and others related to dynamic worlds many times, so I won't go into detail here.  Just click my name and find other places I have posted or threads I have started if you want to know more.

With the stagnation of the market with so many copy-cat same old/same old grinds out there, I anticipate something more dynamic coming along soon.  It really is the future of online gaming imho.  :)

Originally posted by ironore

Player interaction either cooperatively or competitively on whatever scale (large or small) is the vast untapped potential of the MMORPG genre.  Given the right tools in the right system these interactions varying from the simple to the complex would create dynamic content of every imaginable kind with no need for generic quests, instancing, and updated story content.  Instead any updates could focus on improving aspects of the game that provide more depth.

One thing that I think is vital to a dynamic game world is to have a dynamic natural economy functioning in the basic ruleset of the game world before any players even begin to interact with the environment. 

With the stagnation of the market with so many copy-cat same old/same old grinds out there, I anticipate something more dynamic coming along soon.  It really is the future of online gaming imho.  :)

 

Well said, Ironore.

I really would prefer to see more features in MMO's, rather than "content".  Just give players the tools they need to create their own content.  I can't imagine how much resources are spent creating static content that, to be honest, isn't all that entertaining.

Economy...yes.  I understand how difficult it is to pull this one off, but if the entire game is based around the economy, then it's absolutely worth it.  Seriously, having a fully functioning, player driven economy can create a gameplay niche for almost every type of player.  I can't think of ANY other MMO system that can do that.

As far as the future goes, I hope you're right.  Doesn't seen like there are too many developers out there right now who are really trying to push things in this direction...

Originally posted by Tatum

 

As far as the future goes, I hope you're right.  Doesn't seen like there are too many developers out there right now who are really trying to push things in this direction...

For does it really have the potential of a new 9 Mio people MMO ? Or is it actually more of a niche ?

Depends on how you define "niche".  Theres some weird belief in the MMO community now that a game has to have the potential to match WOW's subs before it can be considered "viable".  I don't know what keeps this thought going, since no one has even come close to matching those numbers yet, including the MMO's that have done their best to copy WOW. 

Aside from that, yea I do think a game like this could get plenty of subs.  But, as we all know, theres a lot more to it than just the design.  How much funding do they have?  How polished will it be at launch?  How smooth is the game play?  If all of those catagories are "good" or "great", then I don't see why a "dynamic" MMO couldn't sell as well as, say, the typical "single-player RPG wanna-be" MMO.

The most important dynamic type of gameplay that I'd like to see is this: I just finished a quest and I'm running back to the questgiver in a town or village.  I find out as I approach that the town is being ransacked by some evil mobs, and as I go to the questgiver find out that he's dead and/or on his dieing breath with some new quest and it's all completely random due to the attack.  The town is literally falling apart and parts of buildings are flying around and I'm trying to get the heck outta town and avoid / kill the mobs / save the quest giver's family, etc.  Other players are running around going "what the heck is going on?", a true feeling of dynamic curiousity mixed with panic.

In the following weeks the townspeople start visibly rebuilding and there are new quests to help them, etc.  This would require a huge amount of content coding and is why I've never seen it done very often if ever.

A few weeks later the town is rebuilt but now there's some evil mayor who is in control and more quests to do for the townsfolk and/or the mayor.  You could get a quest and be the first person to poison the mayor secretly and change the town forever, or he catches you and you can never get back in the city because the guards know you and kill on sight.

A few weeks later a grand dragon flies by and fries half the town, etc.  You get the idea.  Random events that change the landscape, NPCs, and quests in ways that even a newbie would go "whoa what the heck is going on here" while a bunch of veterans show up and do fun, challenging stuff also.  Massive NPCs would be focused on players and the town guards their level so newbies wouldn't get slaughtered at every event and have no fun.

On one server, the town you grew up in would be completely in ruins while on another would be just fine, and on another, infested with demons that just don't seem to go away.

You are right that it would require a huge amount of coding to have pre-made content be that dynamic.  While there is talk of engines that might someday be able to generate random and compelling story lines of the scope you are describing, I say why rely on dev created content for the dynamics of the world.  The true potential of the genre is the thousands of unique minds interacting in the game world.  Why not let these interactions drive the events of the world.  It takes much work to design such a world and balance the natural systems, but if done well and many tools are provided for the players to organize themselves and interact with the world, just the type of dynamic content you described will be happening all the time and will be that much more compelling because it is driven by actual player minds.

Now instead of returning from a quest you were given by an NPC you have just returned from a task you were put up to by  the players who built the town.  They had selected you because of your unique skills that you have developed.  When you return to report your accomplishments you find the town is actually under attack by a rival player group.  You can engage in combat, help escort people and their movable property to safety, etc.

Later the players really will be rebuilding the town and there will be tons of things that will need doing, including the planning and executing of the retribution attack.  Maybe they will ask you to head that up or to participate in some way.  I'm sure they will take all the help they can get.

Maybe you uncover the fact that the whole town attack came about because of a betrayal on the inside that left the gate unlocked in return for a bribe.  Also lots of political decisions come up.  Some people think the town should be abandoned and should be rebuilt somewhere else.  Others want to join with some other nearby towns in a strong federation to resist such attacks in the future.  Many fear that such a coalition will lead to them being dominated by the stronger towns.  Some people think that if they struck a deal with their attacks and paid them tribute that things would work smoothly.  And so it goes on and on, just a small sampling of the interactions that would come about in a truly dynamic player driven world.

There are many approaches to a Dynamic MMO my mind is swirling with the possibilities. We've seen dynamic AI in single player games but not really brought to MMO space.

Ultimately, it would be great to see more focus on player interaction. PvP doesnt have to be "players killing each other" but rather it can occur during to locking down trade routes, political manipulation, sabotage, cornering the market, and so forth

I could see Lands changing hands. Towns getting invaded- whether NPC or player. At the sametime, we have to decide how far we want to go and how much of the world we want to be dynamic.

Thought should also be giving to Classes vs Open Skill System. I think "Traditional" Classes clash with Dynamic activites in a bad way (like we've seen with PvP for example).

We also have to give thought how we will reward players. Are we going for a "Sports" gaming feel where you gather 5 heroes to beat a challenge?

If you want to popup encounters all over the world itself then thought should be giving to systems that allow any nearby player to counter the threat. This might mean a less focus on specialization because we cannot wait for a Healer to showup we gotta handle matters right now. How we handle reward distribution if all the nearby players chip in?

Thought will have to be given to consequences and inconveinces. Do we want to deny players access to a resource? How fair is it to lose access to resources when I wasnt even online to defend it?

Theres good solutions I think to all these questions but the anwsers will vary from developer to developer

There are simple ways to get dynamic PVE happening like for instance giving NPCs a name and randomly generating appaearance according to a table setup.

There were old games that did this like Warmonger and it was interesting the freedom the designers had with them. I think Black & White might have this as well since children can be created but not sure how complex that get with this - edit

Ironore (looking for a salute emote).

Forget the NPCs handing out quests.... with a 'real' economy and even a modest player base, users will have more than enough 'wants' and 'needs' to fuel the Help-Wanted section of the local paper.

I would also highlight that characters should have 'natural-limits', this will prompt them to seek help from others. This may be something as simple as people-power required in a construction project (as Ironore noted) or perhaps bolstering the local militia thus providing action for the user when online and act to reduce the actions of the local environmental problems (wolves/mutants etc). Hence a town will need to hire such folk thus driving the economy, people will move from area to area as work dictates, skills will earn you money but also provide the employer with finished goods for them to sell, goods with inherant value due to the cost of production. Decrease the available workforce and watch the cost increase. Now users will act as merchants moving from productive areas to frontier areas with the goods they bought cheaply hoping to make a profit. And so more help needed to protect the caravan..... it just feeds itself.

Sorry if that read badly but its a passion of mine!

(long time planner.... only recently a doer!)