I'm one of the (few?) guys who still knows what the last three letters in MMORPG stands for.

When I first started playing these games (Project Entropia was my first, iirc) I thought, or rather took for granted, that the RP was a natural part of the gameplay and that everyone in the gameworld wanted to contribute to the RP-atmosphere.

Sadly... I learned that this was not the case. But still, back in the days RP wasn't looked down and frowned upon.

But then came WoW into the picture and brought everyone (including your mom) into our beloved alternate universe.

No I don't play WoW anymore and no I'm no hardcore-roleplayer. I just don't want to constantly run in to things which doesn't belong in the gameworld. These things are being added by the so called "LoLers".

So... if we can say that WoW brought LoLers to MMORPGs. I think it would be a fair statement to say that LoLers will play new cool MMORPGs which still awaits to be released.

JGE is one of them! 

With a "skill-oriented" tendency (which originally is a good thing imo) and (maybe) no avatars which would jack up the immersion if they were there. I fear that JGE will become flooded with immersionbreaking, reallife-referenced and LoLing crap everywhere.

Any thoughts or opinions?

I think WoW helped bring LoLers if by LoLers you mean, rude jerks who are selfish, and overall 8 yr old pricks whose b@lls have not dropped, than ya, WoW helped.. but i have seen this in a general since i played ultima when it was only like 2 yrs old. I just think as the times change, the more the MMO worlds degrade, kinda like real life trends.

While the extent at which I've partaken in roleplay has varied over the years, I understand your concerns.  Online communities in general, not just WoW, have been mentally backsliding. 

EVE for example, is a game of fairly decent complexity and requires you to have a functioning cortex.  However even very deep games such as this have become plagued by people that believe "lol" or "pwn3d" is part of sentence structure. 

 Why is this happening?  Im not totally sure.  It could be as simple as users / MMO players starting out younger  these days...  Or it may not have to do with age at all, but the gerneral immature behavior pattern which is becomming all too common when your anonymous on the internet.

 Im looking forward to JGE, and like the OP I hope the community doesnt turn into a flaming wreck.

MMO's are becoming more mainstream and so you are gonna get a wide swath of humanity.  I don't think WOW in particular is to blame so much as society in general.  Impulse control and good manners seem out of fashion in todays world.

For instance, 20 years ago I would have never heard a person in a major dept. store cursing, dropping the f-bomb, much less using the n-word.  Now such things, atleast where I live, are common place.

I see young guys walking down the street with their baggy pants hanging so low I can see their mid butt crack.  Kinda wierd...but okay whatever.  Or large busted women wearing sheer tank tops without bras and you can see their nipples through the fabric.  Or guys walking down the street tugging on their penises through their pants.

A great many people seem to have forgotten how to dress, how to act, how to even speak respectfully in public.  Or maybe it's not that they have forgotten, but rather that it has become out of fashion to have consideration for your fellow man. 

So is it any wonder some people log in to a virutal world, essentially anonymous, and behave inappropriately.

I only know that Jumpgate Classic was heavly on Player run RP. And community never looked down on RP.

If the game will bring lolers or whatever, sure.. but its up to the community to decide what kind of game it will be. 

KOS lists are what kept away most idiots.

Judging from its own forum community,  JGE will be plagued by lolcopters. Coupled with the fact that developers are almost not trying to add no roleplay elements to the game. It is hard to believe that JGE will provide any serious RP opportunity , let alone attract such crowd.

Coupled with heavy PVP elements , that always bring the worst crowd , and twitch based action system

I can safely say that JGE will be hell for roleplayer

...

Just as a note Eraser mentioned RP player groups. This means nothing. Every MMO has a handfull of organised roleplayers. Heck! I even seen organized roleplay in Guild Wars.

Take LOTRO roleplay server. Write LOL in general chat , and you will be shunned and booed. Have unapropriate name , you will be reported in mater of minutes. Almost everybody you come across is roleplaying. And there is always intensive roleplay in Bree , around the clock.

That is roleplay

There was some Amazing RP on the original JGC game back in the day, and it will be safe to say the will some amazing RP going on in JGE (just make sure you pick the right server)

I would give examples but really you would have to have been there to experiance truely, my explaining of events would not give the player-run-GM-helped-ever-changing style RP that happened in JGC any justice

All i can say is, just like ANY other MMORPG u have to find the like-minded (RP'er/PvP'er/PvE'er) people to interact with.

And that was the beauty of JGC, was the fact that for better or worse we were all together, which made the game way more.. intresting.

I bet there was some awesome RP moments in JGC , as there will be in JGE ( i will be there to try and attribute to that)

But lets not lie to ourselves. JGE will not be the roleplayer choice. And you will probably encounter "LOL" in chat on daily basis

Maybe if you treat l33tsp33k as a language of the future, it won't be so bad.

Just pretend everyone is a n00b mercenary from planet Lolrofl-69 and you'll be in RP heaven.  

One feature that I hope is in the loop is an infinite ignore file.

This is why I dropped the RPG and just used MMO.

When I firsted started playing EQ I came from the PNPRPG culture and can remember telling a game shop owner that EQ and games like it were the future on RPG and that paper and pencil RPGs would die. I still feel that the internet is the future of PNPRPGs, with PDFs, head set and mics and virtual tables, but I no longer think that MMOs will kill the RPG industry.

When I started EQ, the console and computer game industry wasn't as vast as it is today so now we have more "leet" gamers playing MMOs so they can level fast and aquire "phat loot", and of course "pwn n00bs" in PVP like they did in Counter Strike. It is this mentality, which has always been there but not to todays degree, which has caused companies to design the games we see today.

Originally posted by Dedthom

This is why I dropped the RPG and just used MMO.

When I firsted started playing EQ I came from the PNPRPG culture and can remember telling a game shop owner that EQ and games like it were the future on RPG and that paper and pencil RPGs would die. I still feel that the internet is the future of PNPRPGs, with PDFs, head set and mics and virtual tables, but I no longer think that MMOs will kill the RPG industry.

When I started EQ, the console and computer game industry wasn't as vast as it is today so now we have more "leet" gamers playing MMOs so they can level fast and aquire "phat loot", and of course "pwn n00bs" in PVP like they did in Counter Strike. It is this mentality, which has always been there but not to todays degree, which has caused companies to design the games we see today.

Very very true

Well, since we are a minority these days. I guess one solution could be that the game-companies truly enforced their special rule-sets they apply to some of their servers.

Take Lobos description of the Lotro RP-server. It's wonderful to hear that a community can do their part but the game-companies have to do theirs as well.

But then again, how much profit are they making on the small minority that is us...

Unfortunately , we are minority

Take LOTRO for example (again)

Is there any doubt LOTR themed MMO will attract a large RP crowd? Yet Turbine , didnt see fit to label any of their USA servers , RP server.

Why? RP servers need special GM attention. And that is extra cost.

EU players are luckier , because Codemasters (EU LOTRO publishers) dedicated several servers to RP

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Originally posted by Dedthom

This is why I dropped the RPG and just used MMO.

When I firsted started playing EQ I came from the PNPRPG culture and can remember telling a game shop owner that EQ and games like it were the future on RPG and that paper and pencil RPGs would die. I still feel that the internet is the future of PNPRPGs, with PDFs, head set and mics and virtual tables, but I no longer think that MMOs will kill the RPG industry.

When I started EQ, the console and computer game industry wasn't as vast as it is today so now we have more "leet" gamers playing MMOs so they can level fast and aquire "phat loot", and of course "pwn n00bs" in PVP like they did in Counter Strike. It is this mentality, which has always been there but not to todays degree, which has caused companies to design the games we see today.

Very very true

Spot on.

Just to contribute to the whole thread about RP...

I believe there are more ways (and better ways) then putting RP servers in order to enforce RP. One of them would be to put a very long ignore list, but not just to squelch a player, but to inform him as well. So let's say i want to add Lobotomist on my ignore list, i would put the followings:

/ignore Lobotomist>>> Reason>>> Leet speak and rude in general. (This is just an example)

That list would be available to the player you're blocking. So eventually, when someone is tired of not being able to find a group or sell his goods on the market because he's on everybody's ignore list, he would eventually try to know "why". And those reasons would be available for him.

To do that, you need a game with no alt characters. A game where you would need to buy a new game and account all together in order to change your persona. Make people accountable for their actions, and you'll see the result not just in RP, but in overall behavior.

You could also have a few GM's walking around randomly on different servers, and engaging conversations with random players. The goal would not be to punish those who are not RP or with leet behavior, but instead to reward those who know their lore and act like their class should for example. If the reward is interesting enough and you run the chance "every day" to get a special prize simply for being a good addition to the community, you will see many "phat loot whores" changing their behavior, because they will be after those rewards too. So get them at their own games.

Developers have only themselves to blame for removing the "RPG" out of the MMORPG name. I for one, refuse to blame the player base and instead, i will ask (and provide as a developer) all the tools i can think about to make my game more RP if that's my goal, instead of blaming the community for it's decline.

RP is in the eye of the beholder IMO,

like a guy said further up the thread, if you pretend its some kind of future where talking like that is normal, perhaps its less immersion breaking.

Seems like there's a conflation of leetspeak and juvenile behavior happening here.  I'm no fan of leetspeak, but there's a long history behind it, which is really about technophilia.  The behaviors (sadism, pointless griefing, willful disruption of immersion) people describe as ruining games are really separate issues having to do with people's personality problems and/or emotional development.  I like RP when it's not too corny, and when people really commit, not just throwing around a few elf-y phrases or whatever.  But leetspeak could be part of that in a sci-fi environment.  It's all about character and story. 

Anyway, I'm babbling, just thought we had ended up mixing together two phenomena.

Peace

Most people just want to have some hack-n-slash fun in a game. RP is too much trouble.

And sometimes it is INCONVENIENT to RP. If I need to log off quickly because my wife needs something, there is no reason not to tell my online group that I only have 15 more min. It is silly to make up some RP-story to go with something like that.