Originally posted by CleffyII

"Sounds to me that the OP wants to play a Cat-Burgler, not a Rogue or Thief... I personally think Rogues and Cutthroats are represented very well in most MMO's, aside from invisibility stealth."

Oops shoulda quoted the guy first.  I agree with your vision of a thief.  Just people making Rogues out to be some assassin or thug isn't very good.

Actually, a Rogue or thief would assassinate for the right cash, he is just not specialized in it. My point is; The Thief class has a enormous videspread of various sub-classes and skills, like: Blackmailing, forgery, mugging, picking pockets, robbery, spying, kidnapping, murdering, fencing and probably alot more. As for the OP who seems to favour robbery, which is fun, I agree, but we all have our favourites and the MMO companies has to choose and most went with murdering, which is the best choice imo.

If I were to implant robbery to an MMO, I wouldnt made it a class, but rather a crafting school, or trade school if you will, exclusively for the Rogue/thief classes.

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Only MMO that have the true Thief class is Shadowbane

But for the same reason thieves there are hated by everyone. It is hard gaining trust , even joining guilds.

But hell is it fun :)

 

Thieves are extremely valuble especially when sieging a city. A thief/rogue with a sobteur rune can sneak into a city, disable spires, break siege engines and cause choas inside and out side a city. But be warned, this game and profession is not for the faint of heart. Take your time, learn all you can about the toon you want to play and first and formost try to get into a guild ASAP.

http://chronicle.ubi.com/Saboteur+Powers.php

most of the time they are richest one

Originally posted by fischsemmel

 

Originally posted by vajuras

 

 

That's exactly how thieves work in Elder scrolls there is also an entire guild with missions for thievery

Thats exactly what I did in elder scrolls that exact same scenario

Not an MMO tho unfortunately....

 

We can dream, eh?

What is the difference between say a DND game run by a server vs a human Dungeon Master?  IMO, the depth of environment interaction required for a excellent thief experience is simply not fully realized by computer games in the MMO field.  Not that you couldn't make a computer game with a good experience.  A human DM has a lot of creative advantages to bring to the game.

Originally posted by wjrasmussen

What is the difference between say a DND game run by a server vs a human Dungeon Master?  IMO, the depth of environment interaction required for a excellent thief experience is simply not fully realized by computer games in the MMO field.  Not that you couldn't make a computer game with a good experience.  A human DM has a lot of creative advantages to bring to the game.

Personally, I don't think doing so would be THAT difficult, but you're certainly right when you say that this doesn't exist in an MMO yet. Today's MMOs just have a focus on finding the ultimate pvp and pve balance between classes, or on the next big raid zone or something, instead of on the little things that would be necessary to make a great thiefy game possible, let alone enjoyable.

Originally posted by fischsemmel

 

Originally posted by wjrasmussen

What is the difference between say a DND game run by a server vs a human Dungeon Master?  IMO, the depth of environment interaction required for a excellent thief experience is simply not fully realized by computer games in the MMO field.  Not that you couldn't make a computer game with a good experience.  A human DM has a lot of creative advantages to bring to the game.

The only difference is that in D&D the DM doesn't need to plan out every possibility before hand to allow for a great experience by his players, because he will be there to improvise if necessary. In an MMO though, the game ends up seriously lacking unless the devs had enough foresight to account for at least most of the things a player might try to do in a given situation.

 

Personally, I don't think doing so would be THAT difficult, but you're certainly right when you say that this doesn't exist in an MMO yet. Today's MMOs just have a focus on finding the ultimate pvp and pve balance between classes, or on the next big raid zone or something, instead of on the little things that would be necessary to make a great thiefy game possible, let alone enjoyable.

http://www.loebner.net/Prizef/loebner-prize.html is something someone who could do this might be able to win.  Especially  if it isn't that tough.

Originally posted by fischsemmel

Are there any MMOs around that treat thieves like they are actually thieves?

 

In my experience, every single MMO out there treats the "thief" class(es) as a lightly armored fighter who usually inflicts extra damage against an opponent when he is attacking from behind. Sometimes these so-called thieves also know how to use poison, have some skill with throwing daggers or shooting bows/crossbows, can pick pockets (for very small change). But, basically, they are not a true thief class... they are just, like I said, a variation of a fighter.

 

Even in DDO, a game that you'd THINK would make a thief what it should be, the thief is less of a thief than he is a lightly armored fighter, who sacrifices some versatility the fighter has for being able to disarm traps and sneak around. Woohoo. Sneaking is so much fun, especially when there is virtually no reason to do any sneaking!

If the Thief class is what you most desire, you desperatly NEED to play WoW. WoW easily has the best ever thief class out of any mmorpg. For thieves there IS a reason to sneak around in WoW or else you will die. In WoW a thief can litterally go into any dungeon, and ROB every single NPC, ROB every treasure chest, all without a single fight. They can do it with no cloths on, no armor on, no weapons on. If they are a good thief. In WoW the main occupation of a thief is to ROB, ROB, STEAL, STEAL. Constantly picking pockets all the time. And if they get caught? They have their ultimate "Vanish" move. Vanish in a cloud of smoke. By level 20 you start seeing positive results from Thievery. By level 30 is when a thief becomes decent. By level 50 they become a master thief due to the fact by then they can use almost any skill on the Thief Skill Tree. It's easier to level from 1-10 in 1-2 hours from pure fighting. Then level 10 to 20 from questing and fighting. And if a player wants to use their thief for other things, yes they can also - like fighting, using crossbows, throwing daggers, etc....

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by fischsemmel</i>
<br><b><p>Are there any MMOs around that treat thieves like they are actually thieves?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In my experience, every single MMO out there treats the "thief" class(es) as a lightly armored fighter who usually inflicts extra damage against an opponent when he is attacking from behind. Sometimes these so-called thieves also know how to use poison, have some skill with throwing daggers or shooting bows/crossbows, can pick pockets (for very small change). But, basically, they are not a true thief class... they are just, like I said, a variation of a fighter.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Even in DDO, a game that you'd THINK would make a thief what it should be, the thief is less of a thief than he is a lightly armored fighter, who sacrifices some versatility the fighter has for being able to disarm traps and sneak around. Woohoo. Sneaking is so much fun, especially when there is virtually no reason to do any sneaking!</p>

If the Thief class is what you most desire, you desperatly NEED to play WoW.
WoW easily has the best ever thief class out of any mmorpg. For thieves there IS a reason to sneak around in WoW or else you will die.

In WoW a thief can litterally go into any dungeon, and ROB every single NPC, ROB every treasure chest, all without a single fight. They can do it with no cloths on, no armor on, no weapons on. If they are a good thief.

In WoW the main occupation of a thief is to ROB, ROB, STEAL, STEAL. Constantly picking pockets all the time. And if they get caught? They have their ultimate "Vanish" move. Vanish in a cloud of smoke. By level 20 you start seeing positive results from Thievery. By level 30 is when a thief becomes decent. By level 50 they become a master thief due to the fact by then they can use almost any skill on the Thief Skill Tree.
It's easier to level from 1-10 in 1-2 hours from pure fighting. Then level 10 to 20 from questing and fighting.

And if a player wants to use their thief for other things, yes they can also - like fighting, using crossbows, throwing daggers, etc....

Originally posted by xplororor

If the Thief class is what you most desire, you desperatly NEED to play WoW.
WoW easily has the best ever thief class out of any mmorpg.

In WoW the main occupation of a thief is to ROB, ROB, STEAL, STEAL.

And if a player wants to use their thief for other things, yes they can also - like fighting, using crossbows, throwing daggers, etc....

I will reply to each sentence quoted above, in order.

Surely, you jest.

Surely, you jest.

Surely, you jest.

For realz?

Thank you for your time.

You may find this thread to appeal to what you're looking for in a discussion.

http://vnboards.ign.com/mmorpg_concepts_and_design_discussion_forum/b22584/105646054/p1/?42

thief classes in MMO's are the ones who deal critical damage and as usual have steal skill.. sometimes they have a high percentage in forging items like merchants..

Op you need a wayback machine and a copy of Pre-tram UO

Pickpocketing, stealth, trap detection, trap disarming

I think thief class of WOW is a not bad class, they walk stealthily, disguise, etc.